Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,121 Location: Daytona Beach, FL, USA
Re: National tragedy in Poland « Reply #15 on Apr 10, 2010, 11:05am »
The question is - why did the pilots try to land in Smolensk, even though the air traffic controllers told them not to because of bad weather? If the pilots had listened to this advice, there would have been no tragedy.
Sadly, there are ALREADY conspiracy theories saying that Russia wanted to kill the Polish leadership.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 15,979 Location: Idaho
Re: National tragedy in Poland « Reply #16 on Apr 10, 2010, 11:08am »
Eric,
conspiracy theories will be always there but the reasonable people would not believe it. I believe that both - pilots and the president believed that they can land and were ignoring security issues.
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
conspiracy theories will be always there but the reasonable people would not believe it. I believe that both - pilots and the president believed that they can land and were ignoring security issues.
Unfortunately, the traditional animosity between Poles and Russians is going to only fuel the fire for conspiracy theories, and I think there will be a portion of the Polish population who will always and automatically believe that the Russian government wanted to kill the Polish leadership.
As for why the decision to land was made despite the bad weather and the air traffic controllers telling them not to... I hope the cockpit voice recorder will help answer this question when investigators can listen to the conversations.
Re: National tragedy in Poland « Reply #18 on Apr 10, 2010, 1:14pm »
This is a history changing tragedy. I hope Poland will pull out a string of very competent replacements.
The ultimate decisions lie with the pilot of an aircraft, no one on the ground. I am surprised he tried again after 3 failed attempts at landing, but hubris and pride can kill a person or lead a nation into useless wars.
I did experience one flying condition that made it tempting to land in the fog. There was a thin layer of fog over the airport and we could see the ground quite well. The problem came in when you entered that thin layer and the horizontal sight disappeared. Sometimes a simple mistake is an unforgiving mistake. My pilot knew enough to go to an alternate landing area.
It is quite a national tragedy, more so that it ties in with the Katyn history.
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
Re: National tragedy in Poland « Reply #20 on Apr 10, 2010, 9:03pm »
Well, I don't know anything about his policies or anything like that, but this certainly is a major tragedy for Poland. Renata was very upset about this today, quite understandably. Her mother had sent an SMS about it. I was very disturbed to see how little coverage CNN was giving it this afternoon when we tuned in to learn more (about none!! )
This is obviously a major event for Poland, and my wishes go out to all polish people for a quick and event-free recovery from this tragedy!
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
The body of Polish President Lech Kaczynski is to lie in state in the capital Warsaw as the nation mourns the victims of the Smolensk air crash.
He and 95 others, including many top defence officials and public figures, died when their jet crashed en route to a war memorial service in Russia.
Other victims are being identified by relatives who flew to Moscow, where the bodies have been placed in morgues.
Russian investigators suspect pilot error caused the crash.
They say the pilots were warned that they were flying too low just before the plane clipped tree-tops in heavy fog, as it was coming in to land at an air base on Saturday morning.
An outpouring of grief has been seen in Polish communities across the world and the country is observing a week of public mourning. Monday is also a day of mourning in Russia, whose relations with its western neighbour were troubled for centuries.
Poland has moved to fill some of the gaps left by the disaster, appointing an acting head of the central bank, while the presidential post has been filled by the parliamentary speaker pending a new election.
The Polish government plane was carrying dignitaries who spanned Polish public life. They had been due to attend a memorial for the Polish victims of a World War II massacre by Soviet secret police at Katyn in Smolensk.
Commentators in Poland have stressed the irony that so many senior figures were killed making a visit to commemorate victims of a massacre which targeted the elite of Poland’s officer corps.
"This is so very much like Katyn, where our head was cut off," said former President Lech Walesa.
Unprecedented funerals
The pavement in front of President Kaczynski’s palace in central Warsaw has nearly disappeared from sight, covered now with thousands of small glass pots containing candles laid as a mark of respect, the BBC’s Duncan Kennedy reports from the city.
Mr Kaczynski’s body was brought back from Russia on Sunday. It was driven through crowd-lined streets to the palace, where it will lie in state.
"He taught Poles how to respect our traditions, how to fight for our dignity, and he made his sacrifice there at that tragic place," mourner Boguslaw Staron, 70, told the Associated Press news agency.
Among those who also died in the crash was the president’s wife, Maria.
There is no precedent for a duel funeral involving a head of state and his first lady, so it is unclear if they will have a joint or separate ceremony, our correspondent says.
With a swathe cut through the top military leaders, their first deputies have taken over any immediate duties meaning that the country’s armed forces are operating normally, he adds.
At the central bank, the late Slawomir Skrzypek was replaced temporarily by his deputy, Piotr Wiesiolek.
Piotr Wiesiolek
Parliamentary Speaker Bronislaw Komorowski said he would call for early elections within 14 days, in line with the constitution. The vote must be held within another 60 days.
Bronislaw Komorowski
Difficult identification
Relatives of some of the air crash victims have been arriving in Moscow in an effort to identify their loved ones formally.
The plane caught fire in the crash and none of those aboard survived.
Senior Russian prosecutor Vasily Piskarev said 24 bodies had been identified as of Sunday, mostly through their clothing and ID documents. He warned that it would be difficult to identify some of the remains.
Polish Health Minister Ewa Kopacz, who is in Moscow with a delegation, said that only 14 bodies would be "identifiable without problems", while a further 20 would be identifiable thanks to distinguishing marks.
"But for the rest, DNA tests will be necessary," she added.
The Russian authorities have announced that they will meet all of the expenses of the Polish relatives coming to Moscow, and provide counselling alongside Polish colleagues. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin flew to Smolensk just hours after the crash and sought to console his Polish counterpart, Donald Tusk.
Russia’s handling of the tragedy has won some admiration in Poland.
Witold Waszczykowski, deputy head of Poland’s National Security Bureau and one of the few Kaczynski aides not to have been on Saturday’s ill-fated flight, was quoted by Reuters as saying: "We did not expect this gentle, kind approach, this personal involvement from Putin."
"Naturally it will have a positive impact on the relationship between our countries."
Poland’s ambassador to Russia, Jerzy Bahr, told Polish TV: "We can sense Russian solidarity at every step of the way."
Hanna Budzisz, 55, whose great uncle was killed at Katyn, told AFP news agency: "The Russians are our historic foes, so I’m very pleasantly surprised by how President [Dmitry] Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin have reacted."
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