Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,266 Location: Poe-land
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #165 on Jan 18, 2008, 4:54pm »
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Are you so hungry for the compliments, Pawian? : You really want me to say something like "Pawian, I really never thought of you as of an idiot, rather of someone from the other side of the scale to idiot".
hahahahaha
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Why would I suppose you think it was the Poles who did it?? I just thought in your mission you want to borrow some of the guilts from the Germans.
Of course, it wasn`t I who could misinterpret it. It could be others, e.g., Pieter got such an impression and it was really logical after reading your post to me hahahahahaha
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And Jaga was absolutely right. Proportions and historical context are the most important. Kai said that too. Why not try to re-evaluate your position, you have already proved you are capable to do it and say it loud!
Hmm, re-evaluate my postion??? That`s quite surprising because I expect Jaga and you to re-evaluate your positions!
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But if you felt not well with what I wrote - I do apologize.
Oh no, it`s not necessary, I am able to take it. You make me blush with apologies.
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From another topic - the cinema IS the best in town. A relic of 'kino studyjne', hope it is the correct term.
Aaah, I see. The Film Discussion Club.
I can imagine what it is inside. I don`t like such places.
I prefer bigger cinemas where I can sit where I want because there are so many seats which happen to be very comfortable, with a lot of room for legs which are very long in my case.
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #168 on Jan 20, 2008, 4:55am »
That's good Pawian, you must have a fine wife!
My joke was about the sexual behavior of the Bobobo's:
Sexual social behavior of the Bonobo
Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food. Bonobos are the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex. In scientific literature, the female-female sex is often referred to as GG rubbing or genital-genital rubbing, while male-male sex is sometimes referred to as thingy fencing. Sexual activity happens within the immediate family as well as outside it, and often involves adults and children, even infants. Bonobos do not form permanent relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by gender or age, with the possible exception of sexual intercourse between mothers and their adult sons; some observers believe these pairings are taboo. When Bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, presumably decreasing tension and allowing for peaceful feeding. Bonobo males frequently engage in various forms of male-male genital sex (frot). One form has two males hang from a tree limb face-to-face while "penis fencing". Frot may also occur where two males rub their penises together while in missionary position. A special form of frot called "rump rubbing" occurs to express reconciliation between two males after a conflict, where they stand back-to-back and rub their scrotal sacs together. Bonobo females also engage in female-female genital sex (tribadism) to socially bond with each other, thus forming a female nucleus of Bonobo society. The bonding between females allows them to dominate Bonobo society - although male Bonobos are individually stronger, they cannot stand alone against a united group of females. Adolescent females often leave their native community to join another community. Sexual bonding with other females establishes the new females as members of the group. This migration mixes the Bonobo gene pools, providing genetic diversity. Bonobo reproductive rates are not any higher than that of the Common Chimpanzee. Female Bonobos carry and nurse their young for five years and can give birth every five to six years. Compared with Common Chimpanzees, Bonobo females resume the genital swelling cycle much sooner after giving birth, allowing them to rejoin the sexual activities of their society. Also, Bonobo females who are either sterile or too young to reproduce still engage in sexual activity. Craig Stanford, an American primatologist, has challenged the claim that Bonobos are more sexually active than Common Chimpanzees. Stanford compared existing data on Common Chimpanzees and Bonobos in the natural habitat and found that female Common Chimpanzees copulated at least as often as female Bonobos, while male chimpanzees actually copulated more than male Bonobos. His comparison excluded same-sex sexual contacts, however, which are very common in Bonobos. De Waal's book on Bonobos includes interviews with field workers and relies on the studies by Takayoshi Kano, the only scientist to have worked for two decades with wild Bonobos. Kano's work supports claims about the Bonobos' pronounced sexual tendencies and their relative peacefulness.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,266 Location: Poe-land
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #169 on Jan 20, 2008, 5:14am »
Quote:
That's good Pawian, you must have a fine wife!
My joke was about the sexual behavior of the Bobobo's:
Sexual social behavior of the Bonobo
Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food. Bonobos are the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex. In scientific literature, the female-female sex is often referred to as GG rubbing or genital-genital rubbing, while male-male sex is sometimes referred to as thingy fencing. Sexual activity happens within the immediate family as well as outside it, and often involves adults and children, even infants. Bonobos do not form permanent relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by gender or age, with the possible exception of sexual intercourse between mothers and their adult sons; some observers believe these pairings are taboo. When Bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, presumably decreasing tension and allowing for peaceful feeding. Bonobo males frequently engage in various forms of male-male genital sex (frot). One form has two males hang from a tree limb face-to-face while "penis fencing". Frot may also occur where two males rub their penises together while in missionary position. A special form of frot called "rump rubbing" occurs to express reconciliation between two males after a conflict, where they stand back-to-back and rub their scrotal sacs together. Bonobo females also engage in female-female genital sex (tribadism) to socially bond with each other, thus forming a female nucleus of Bonobo society. The bonding between females allows them to dominate Bonobo society - although male Bonobos are individually stronger, they cannot stand alone against a united group of females. Adolescent females often leave their native community to join another community. Sexual bonding with other females establishes the new females as members of the group. This migration mixes the Bonobo gene pools, providing genetic diversity. Bonobo reproductive rates are not any higher than that of the Common Chimpanzee. Female Bonobos carry and nurse their young for five years and can give birth every five to six years. Compared with Common Chimpanzees, Bonobo females resume the genital swelling cycle much sooner after giving birth, allowing them to rejoin the sexual activities of their society. Also, Bonobo females who are either sterile or too young to reproduce still engage in sexual activity. Craig Stanford, an American primatologist, has challenged the claim that Bonobos are more sexually active than Common Chimpanzees. Stanford compared existing data on Common Chimpanzees and Bonobos in the natural habitat and found that female Common Chimpanzees copulated at least as often as female Bonobos, while male chimpanzees actually copulated more than male Bonobos. His comparison excluded same-sex sexual contacts, however, which are very common in Bonobos. De Waal's book on Bonobos includes interviews with field workers and relies on the studies by Takayoshi Kano, the only scientist to have worked for two decades with wild Bonobos. Kano's work supports claims about the Bonobos' pronounced sexual tendencies and their relative peacefulness.
Of course, I know it very well, except for male to male sex. hahahahaha
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #171 on Jan 20, 2008, 6:07am »
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. People were simply BEWILDERED by the war! There were many accounts of deads, gangs, crowd justice. ---- It is singled out now, but in that times - there was just a different reality! It is not just that the war stopped and the next day, there was a peace.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 15,992 Location: Idaho
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #172 on Jan 22, 2008, 12:36am »
Pawian,
here is the article which talks about Poles killing German civilians after WW II. About 40 people were killed without any particular reason in the area of Poland which was for some time isolated from the rest of Poland.
This is one more poof that time after war was very violent and it was very easy to lose lives:
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
It is the job of Poles and Polonia to NOW spread the word of their story. If it has been neglected for 60 years then there is no better time than NOW to get that story out in the public eye. Imagine the effect if all teh energy and words put into Polish-Jewish topics on this forum were put into telling the Polish story!
Yes, I agree. In effect this is the first time everyone everywhere can have a say in these matters, thanks to technology. It is never too late to straighten out the facts and their details even if this is for one reason alone: half a truth is, ultimately, a lie.
Poland’s history is quite unique and should be better known. What is truly shocking is that some people are bored with it. What can I say apart from: “I’m amazed!”
So many young people gave their lives for a free Poland, so many young people died in horrific ways for a free Poland, so many young people never lived to fulfil their hopes and ambitions – all for a free Poland! And to hear that people who are supposedly intelligent say they are actually bored by discussions about this immense sacrifice, is stunning. Talk about “Little Polish controversies”!!!! What could be more controversial than that?
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Why does everybody want the whole world know all the truth about Polish martyrology? What do you expect to achieve by making it popular?
Would you also object if another book on the Jewish Holocaust were written?
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #174 on Jan 22, 2008, 10:03pm »
Hola, I can tell you some stories of Polish anti-semitism prior to WW I as expressed by Polish immigrants, some of whom were my family. I have no literary back up to this, only my recollections of the attitudes of my relatives and their friends. This goes back to the 1900's immigration of most of my family and their friends to the US. Needless to say, I came into this scene much later. I cannot believe that their anti semitism was a result of experiences in America, though that may have reinforced their bias. I believe that anti semitism was wide spread in eastern Europe as well as the rest of the world prior to 1939 and the horror of the holocaust. I find it pointless to cite chapter and verse to support my position from wikipedia, the oracle of this forums head troll. Suffice it to say the Jews were not the only religion/ethnic peoples to suffer such a cruel fate. And that does not excuse any attempts to annihilate a population that is misunderstood or happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. My personal opinion: There will always be a charismatic or dictator leader that will do as those before him/her. With apologies to Jaga for rambling and baboon for opinions without references.
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #175 on Jan 23, 2008, 4:57am »
freetobe,
There will always be unrest of a certain degree where there is poverty and political upheaval but the truth of the Polish Issue is that for quite a few centuries Polish Christians and Polish Jews managed to live in relative peace, side by side.
What happened at the beginning of the 20th Century accentuated the problems, however: the Jews were active in the rising socialist movements and the first Socialist Party in Russia was in fact the General Jewish Workers’ League of Lithuania, Poland and Russia (which led to the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks.) Now the Poles were aware of this involvement but they also associated Bolsheviks with Russians who were considered “the enemy” – and not surprisingly so for this is still prior to WWI, and Russia was still an occupying force in Poland.
From this point it is just one small step to associating Jews with enemy forces. Perhaps had the Jews been less eager in their welcoming of the Soviet Forces into Poland on and after the 17th of September 1939, things would have been different. But they weren’t. They took part in leading the Soviets right to the houses of people the Soviets wanted to arrest, deport or execute, and they led them with enthusiasm and wearing arm bands to differentiate themselves from other Polish citizens.
Once the War ended, this eager Jewish collaboration with the new Soviet masters of Poland did not cease – it just carried on and on in a binge and extravaganza of brutality. And it lasted until Stalin decided to change these playmates of his for newer models.
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #176 on Jan 23, 2008, 8:28am »
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freetobe,
There will always be unrest of a certain degree where there is poverty and political upheaval but the truth of the Polish Issue is that for quite a few centuries Polish Christians and Polish Jews managed to live in relative peace, side by side.
What happened at the beginning of the 20th Century accentuated the problems, however: the Jews were active in the rising socialist movements and the first Socialist Party in Russia was in fact the General Jewish Workers’ League of Lithuania, Poland and Russia (which led to the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks.) Now the Poles were aware of this involvement but they also associated Bolsheviks with Russians who were considered “the enemy” – and not surprisingly so for this is still prior to WWI, and Russia was still an occupying force in Poland.
From this point it is just one small step to associating Jews with enemy forces. Perhaps had the Jews been less eager in their welcoming of the Soviet Forces into Poland on and after the 17th of September 1939, things would have been different. But they weren’t. They took part in leading the Soviets right to the houses of people the Soviets wanted to arrest, deport or execute, and they led them with enthusiasm and wearing arm bands to differentiate themselves from other Polish citizens.
Once the War ended, this eager Jewish collaboration with the new Soviet masters of Poland did not cease – it just carried on and on in a binge and extravaganza of brutality. And it lasted until Stalin decided to change these playmates of his for newer models.
Yes, that is well said. Poles felt betrayed by their Jewish neighbours. And many of Poles got killed and deported beacuse of these actions. Also, after the war the Jews were 'overrepresented' in the highest ranks of communist secret police (Służba Bezpieczeńsywa) which killed a lot of people. All this is of course not an excuse for the killings in Kielce or Jedwabne. But should be said too. Without these information we don't have the full picture.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 15,992 Location: Idaho
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #177 on Jan 24, 2008, 12:57am »
Guys,
I was trying to argue that the mass killing of Jews in Poland was the act of more or less random violence since after the war there were many killings and as such - nobody paid attention to just a specific one . I had to read through hundreds of newspapers from the time just after the war in poland, so I know what I am talking about and here... Mark Edelman, the longest lived Jew from jewish ghetto uprising agrees with me!
Few in Poland argue with the facts Gross presents in the book, but many dispute his interpretation - even some Polish Jews who lived through the trauma of the war and postwar years. Marek Edelman, the last surviving leader of the 1943 Warsaw ghetto uprising, has said the postwar violence against Jews was "not about anti-Semitism."
"Murdering Jews was pure banditry, and I wouldn't explain it as anti-Semitism," Edelman said in an interview with the Gazeta Wyborcza daily. "It was contempt for man, for human life, plain meanness. A bandit doesn't attack someone who is stronger, like military troops, but where he sees weakness."
Gross' accusations are especially painful for a country that suffered a brutal five-year Nazi occupation that saw some six million Polish citizens - half of them Jews - killed.
Some who attended the discussions complained that the suffering and death of some three million non-Jewish Poles, as well as the efforts of gentiles who tried to save Jews, receive only scant international attention.
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
Re: Little Polish controversies « Reply #178 on Jan 25, 2008, 5:52pm »
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Some who attended the discussions complained that the suffering and death of some three million non-Jewish Poles, as well as the efforts of gentiles who tried to save Jews, receive only scant international attention.
Good! It's about time that someone draws attention to these matters.
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