How Germany rejected Dutch settler farmers

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pieter
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How Germany rejected Dutch settler farmers Aug 12, 2010 3:05:44 GMT -7

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Post by pieter on Aug 12, 2010 3:05:44 GMT -7

'White Jews', not 'good Nazis': How Germany rejected Dutch settler farmers

New research shows how a group of Dutch farmers that trekked to Ukraine and Lithuania in World War II was spurned as 'white Jews'.

By Cnaan Liphshiz

They came in their thousands from the Netherlands to Eastern Europe to be good Nazis and help the Germans colonize more land during World War II. But according to the first major research into the Dutch settler movement, their German brethren despised them, dubbing them "white Jews."

Dutch settlers

Dutch settlers outside the Oldenzaal railway station.
Photo by: Dutch War Archive

Approximately 5,000 farmers trekked from the Netherlands to the Ukraine and Lithuania from 1942 to 1945. Their unique and little-researched story remained largely unknown even to Holocaust scholars until last month, when it was presented before dozens of Shoah researchers at the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum in Jerusalem.

The experience of these Dutch farmers has made them the only readily identifiable group of foreign witnesses to the pre-Auschwitz mass execution of East European Jewry - and it sheds new light on the nuances of the ethnic hierarchy among Aryans in the Third Reich.

Dr. Geraldine von Frijtag Drabbe Kunzel of Utrecht University in the Netherlands is among a handful of people familiar with the story. Speaking at a Yad Vashem conference for Holocaust scholars last month, she defined the newcomers as "ordinary Dutch" farmer families who largely failed to take root in Ukraine despite the strong Nazi ideology that brought them there.

The conference brought together 35 scholars from 13 countries, who discussed little-explored topics such as collaborators in Greece and Yugoslav partisans' approach to Jewish parachutists from the Yishuv (= the Jewish community in Palestine before the existance of Israel) in 1943-1945.

The Dutch settlers were volunteers sent by the NOC In Dutch de Nederlandsche Oost Compagnie, The Dutch East Company), a state body set up by the Dutch National-socialist NSB party, which shared power with the German Nazi occupation government after the German invasion and occupation of the Netherlands in 1940.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_in_the_Netherlands
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodowo-Socjalistyczny_Ruch_Holenderski

German Nazis considered the Dutch and other Nordic peoples to be pure Aryans and therefore almost equal to them in the racial hierarchy. Though other European countries had strong Nazi parties, the Netherlands is the only one other than Germany to have encouraged its citizens to engage in Nazi colonization abroad.

The settlers were fully aware that the Nazis were killing more than 2 million Jews all around them, during and after their arrival, von Frijtag said. Of the dozens of families that returned to the Netherlands, none cited the genocide as their reason for doing so. Fear of reprisals by partisans was a more common incentive for giving up on populating the rich lands of the east.

"There could have been no doubt about the fate of Jews in the target areas," von Frijtag said. Her research showed that the settler leaders visited Minsk in 1942, where Wilhelm Kube, the notorious Gebietskommissar (district commissioner ) of Belarus, told them he needed Dutch craftsmen to replace slain Jews.

Dutch settlers aboard a train taking them to Ukraine and Lithuania during World War II. Photo by: Dutch War Archive

Friendly welcome

One of the Dutch visitors, H.C. Van Maasdijk, wrote at the time that Kube delivered a friendly welcome speech, in which he mentioned the "unique civilizing task" in the east that rested upon the shoulders of all Germanic people.

But the rhetoric proved to be only that. The Dutch farmers found their German counterparts unwelcoming and suspicious. The German authorities, for their part, complained the Dutch were too busy fraternizing with the Slavs, whom the German Nazis considered an inferior people.

Particularly disturbing were reports of Dutch farmers enjoying the company of the women of Vilnius. Some of these men even married local women, in direct violation of their instructions, and brought their new wives back with them to the Netherlands when it became clear the Nazi empire would be overrun.

In Ukraine, German anger was in particular aroused by Dutch activities on the black market. Some farmers sold everything they had, including uniforms of the NSB and shoes. "Theft, swindle and exorbitant prices" were among the words applied to Dutch craftsmen in Rowno. Notorious for their trading skills, the Dutch became "white Jews" to the Germans.

About 75 percent of the Dutch settlers came to Eastern Europe out of ideology, and the remaining because of economic reasons, according to von Frijtag. Out of 150 Dutch settlers whose background she researched, 111 had been investigated by tribunals in the post-war Netherlands.

Based on this finding, she argues that many of the settlers were brought before their country's justice system to answer for their actions, which included the employment of coerced labor (mostly Russian POWs ), dispossession of Jewish property and murder.

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The story of Pieter Menten: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Menten

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How Germany rejected Dutch settler farmers Aug 12, 2010 3:29:52 GMT -7

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Post by pieter on Aug 12, 2010 3:29:52 GMT -7

Reichskommissariat Ukraine

The Reichskommissariat Ukraine (Reich Commissariat of Ukraine) was the civil administration of much of German-occupied Ukraine (which included adjacent areas of modern Belarus and pre-war Poland) during World War II. Between September 1941 and March 1944, the Reichskommissariat was administered by Reichskommissar Erich Koch as a colony. The administration's tasks included the pacification of the region and the exploitation, for German benefit, of its resources and people. Adolf Hitler issued a Fuehrer Decree defining the administration of the newly-occupied Eastern territories on 17 July 1941.

Reichskommissar Erich Koch of the Reichskommissariat Ukraine

Before the German invasion, Ukraine was a constituent republic of the USSR, inhabited by ethnic Ukrainians and Russians, with German, Jewish, Roma, Polish and Crimean Tatar minorities. It was a key subject of Nazi planning for the post-war expansion of the German state and civilization.

History

Nazi Germany launched its invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, seeking to destroy its recent, de jure ally and ideological opponent. In the mind of Adolf Hitler and other German expansionists, the destruction of the "Bolshevik" state would remove a threat from Germany's eastern borders and allow Germany to use the vast spaces of the western Soviet Union, which included the fertile Ukraine, as a source for the fulfillment of the material needs of the German people. The region would also provide space (Lebensraum) for future German colonists.

The German invasion resulted in the collapse of the western elements of the Soviet Red Army, and Nazi plans for Ukraine became reality. On July 16, 1941, Hitler appointed the fervent Nazi Erich Koch as Reichskommissar for the planned Reichskommissariat Ukraine, created by a Führer decree on August 20, 1941. Originally subject to Alfred Rosenberg's Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories, it became a separate German civil entity. First transfer of Ukrainian territory from military to civil administration took place on September 1, 1941. There were further transfers on October 20 and November 1, 1941, and a final transfer on September 1, 1942, which brought the boundaries of the province to beyond the Dnieper river.

Alfred Rosenberg, Reich Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories

On 14 December 1941, Rosenberg discussed with Hitler various issues regarding the Reichskommissariat Ukraine. These included a dispute over Koch's status and access to the Fuehrer, manpower shortages over gathering the harvest, Hitler's insistence that the Crimea should be "cleaned out" (i.e., unwanted nationalities to be removed), renaming of towns (Simferopol to "Gotenburg" and Sevastopol to "Theodorichhafen") and an adjustment to the border with Romanian-controlled Transnistria to remove overlooking of the shipyards at Mykolaiv.

The Führer decreed the creation of the Nazi Organization "Arbeitsbereich Osten der NSDAP", for the new eastern occupied territories, on April 1, 1942. This move had been bitterly resisted by Rosenberg who rightly feared that the transformation of the administration of the eastern territories from a state to a party bureaucracy would spell the effective end of his ministry (a state organ)'s authority and Himmler, who rightly feared that an arbeitsbereich's establishment would be accompanied by the commissars becoming RVKs (Kommissars for war) and thus enormously empowered at the expense of the SS, that has already been steadily losing ground since late September, when the commissariat government began establishing itself, with local commissars asserting control over the police in their territories, hitherto controlled by the SS. Himmler and Rosenberg's rearguard resistance soon collapsed in the face of pressure from both Martin Bormann in Berlin and Koch and Lohse in the field. Rosenberg at least managed to be appointed the Reichsleiter ("Reich leader") of the new arbeitsberiech. Rosenberg later attempted to take such political power into the political section of the ministry to keep all party issues in his control, and prohibited the creation of organizations and any political activity in the East without his express authorisation. Needless to say he was entirely disobeyed. Hoping that by joining forces they might regain some influence, Himmler and Rosenberg decided upon the appointment of Gottlieb Berger, Himmler power-political hatchet man and the SS' head of personnel as Rosenberg's deputy. A move which in theory would give Rosenberg control over SS forces in the occupied Soviet territories under civil administration in return for Rosenberg's support for the SS in its power struggles. The new twosome achieved nothing other than to exasperate each other beyond endurance. Berger soon withdrew all cooperation. Koch and Lohse thereafter gradually reduced communication with Rosenberg, liaising with Hitler through Bormann and the party chancellery. Both also made a point of establishing strong SA organisations in their jurisdiction as a counterbalance to the SS. Given that many of the commissariat official were active or reserve SA officers whose pre-existing grudge against the SS was reactivated by these measures. A poisoning of relations was guaranteed. As a last resort the HSSPF in Ukraine Hans-Adolf Prutzmann attempted to approach Koch directly only to be contemptuously abused and dismissed.

Geography and administrative divisions

The Reichskommissariat Ukraine excluded parts of present-day Ukraine. It extended, in the west, from the Volhynian region around Lutsk, to a line from Vinnytsia to Mykolaiv along the Southern Bug River in the south, to the areas surrounding Kiev, Poltava and Zaporizhia in the east, but excluded the Crimea, Chernihiv, Kharkiv, and the Donbas/Donets Basin, which remained under German military jurisdiction. At its greatest extent, it included just under 340,000 square kilometers.

The Reichskommissariat's administrative capital was at Rowno and it was divided into six general districts (Generalbezirke), each headed by a general commissar. These districts were (administrative centres in parentheses):

* Wolhynien und Podolien (Luzk) - headed by SA Obergruppenführer Heinrich Schöne
* Shitomir (Shitomir) - headed by Regierungpräsident Kurt Klemm, then by Gauamtsleiter Waldemar Magunia (from 1942)
* Kiew (Kiew) - SA-Brigadeführer I. Quitzrau (till February 14, 1942), then SA-Oberführer Waldemar Magunia (since February 14, 1942)
* Nikolajew (Nikolajew) - headed by NSFK-Obergruppenführer Ewald Oppermann
* Dnjepropetrowsk (Dnjepropetrowsk) - headed by Oberbefehlshaber der NSDAP ('party commander in chief') Claus Selzner
* Krim (Melitopol) - headed by Gauleiter Alfred Frauenfeld (note that this district's title was a misnomer, it initially included only the "Taurida" area north of the Crimean peninsula).

Planned Future expansion of the Reichskommissariat Ukraine

Scheduled for incorporation into the Reichskommissariat Ukraine but never transferred to civil administration were the Generalkommissariats Charkow, Stalino (Donetsk), Rostow and Saratow, which would have brought the boundary of the province to the Volga. Conquered territories further to the east, including the rest of Ukraine, were under military governance for the entirety of the war, until 1943–44.

The administrative position of the Krim Generalbezirke remained ambiguous. The Crimean peninsular was added to the general commissariat in the summer of 1942, but remained part of the military rear area. Its administrator, Frauenfeld, played off the military and civil authorities against each other and gained the freedom to run the commissariat as he saw fit. He thereby enjoyed complete autonomy, verging on independence, from Koch's authority. Frauenfeld's administration was much more moderate than Koch's and consequentially more economically successful. Koch was greatly angered by Fraunfeld's insubordination (a similar situation existed in the administrative relationship between the Estonian general commissariat and Reichskommissariat Ostland).

Former Soviet territory between the Southern Bug and Dniester rivers was also excluded from the Reichskommissariat Ukraine; this was given to Romania and named "Transnistria" or "Transniestra", governed from Odessa by Dr. Alexeanu, the Romanian Governor.

Rosenberg's idea of extending the eastern frontier of Ukraine up to the Volga was based on strategic motives, not ethnic and to change to Ukrainians the loss of Galicia annexed to the Polish General Government, at Kremenchuk and Poltava, their territories annexed to the Generalbezirk in Kiev and Zaporizhia at the Generalbezirk of Dnipropetrovsk. The Crimean Peninsula was maintained under Wehrmacht control, but the rest of the territory, with previous military authorisation, was under the civil administration of Generalbezirk in Crimea, which also included the Tauria administration land, Nogai Steppe and parts of Mykolaiv and Zaporizhia provinces.

Another idea proposed by Rosenberg was the "Ukraines debt to convert into an allied state of Germany and Caucasus, with nearby territories in the north, in way to transformed in Federal State, lead by a German Plenipotentiary."

Government

The Staatssekretär 'Secretary of State' Herbert Backe was personally nominated by Reich Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories Alfred Rosenberg. His ministry produced the "Instruktion fur einen Reichskommissar in der Ukraine" for the direction of future administrators of the Reichskommissariat Ukraine.

"Die Reichskommissare unterstehen dem Reichsminister fur die besetzen Ostgebiete und erhalten ausschliesslich von ihm Weisungen..." ( translat.: The Reich's Commissioners are subordinated under the Reich's minister for the occupied eastern territories and receive only orders from him) was the "Führer" decree for the administration of the new eastern territories, the Reichskommissars reported to the Eastern Affairs Ministry.

This administrative structure was subdivided into 114 Kreisgebiete, and further into 443 Parteien. The capital of this German administration remained in Rivne, in Western Ukraine. Each "Generalbezirke" was administered by a "Generalkomissar"; each Kreisgebiete "circular [i.e. district] area" was led by a "Gebietskomissar" and each Partei "party" was governed by a Ukrainian or German "Parteien Chef" (Party Chief). At the level below were German or Ukrainian "Akademiker" ('Academics', i.e. District Chiefs) (similar to Polish "Wojts" in the General Government).

At same time at a smaller scale, the local Municipalities was administered by native "Bailiffs" and "Mayors", accompanied by respective German political advisers if needed. In the most important areas, or where a German Army detachment remained, the local administration was always led by a German; in less significant areas local personnel was in charge.

The German Administration gave the role of "Chief of Ukrainian Principal Commission" to Professor Wolodomyr Kubijowytsch, an early local supporter.

The civil and criminal justice local administration, apart from the local SS and Wehrmacht military justice branches, was staffed by "Parteien Chef", "Bailiffs", "Mayors", with supervision of German "Schoffen" (Advisers) and "Schlichten" (Arbiters) with ample legal powers. The most important cases or situations which affected "natural rights" of any "Aryan" subject, were managed in Rivne or Berlin.

The Wehrmacht introduced reforms in Ukraine allowing limited religious liberty. In January 1942, Bishop Polikarp Sikorsky of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church became the temporary administrator of church lands in the German-occupied Ukraine and he was granted the title of Archbishop of Lutsk and Kovel. He also had authority over Bishoprics at Kiev, Zhytomyr (Bishop Hryhorij Ohijchuk), Poltava, Kirovohrad, Lubny (Bishop Sylvester Hayevsky), Dnipropetrovsk and Bila Tserkva (Bishop Manuyil Tarnavsky) by decree of the Civil German Administration of limited religious liberty in Ukraine. The German Administration also allowed Archbishop Alexander of Pinsk and Polesia to maintain the religious authority he wielded before the war and the same permission was granted to Archbishop Alexander of Volhynia.

German political figures related with Ukraine administration

* Reich Ministry Alfred Rosenberg
* Reichscommissar Erich Koch
* Generalcommissar Ernst Leyser
* Gebietcommissar Steudel
* SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlieb Berger
* Georg Leibbrandt
* Otto Bräutigam ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Br%C3%A4utigam )

Generalcommissar Ernst Leyser
Von September 1941 bis Oktober 1943 war Leyser Generalkommissar in Schitomir, Ukraine. Am 4. Februar 1942 wurde er zum SS-Brigadeführer befördert. Später war er noch Generalkommissar in Tschernigow, Ukraine.

SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlieb Berger

Dr. Georg Leibbrandt (1899 - 1982)

Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories
Permanent Secretary (Ministerialdirektor)

From 1941 to 1943, Leibbrandt headed the departments dealing with general politics, the Ukraine, the Occupied Eastern Territories (Ostland), the Caucasus, Russia, and also the press and cultural affairs. In this capacity he was prominently connected with the genocide of the Jews. As early as October 1941, Leibbrandt participated in a meeting with Heydrich where the inclusion of all Jews into the extermination program was discussed. Two days after the Wannsee Conference, he issued invitations for an official meeting to discuss the definition of the term “Jew” in the “Eastern Territories.”

Born in Hoffnungsthal near Odessa. High school in Dorpat and Odessa. Fled to Berlin after the Bolshevist revolution. From 1920, study of theology, philosophy and national economy in Tübingen and Leipzig. Study trips to Paris, London, the Soviet Union and the USA. Ph.D. in 1927. Joined the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in 1933. Head of “Section East” (Ostabteilung) in the Nazi Party’s office for foreign policy. Thereafter, in charge of anti-Communist and anti-Soviet propaganda. In 1938, assessor (Beisitzer) at the People’s Court (Volksgerichtshof). In July 1941, Director of the Main Department No. 1 (Politics) in the Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories. In the summer of 1943, he reported for duty in the navy. Was interned in 1945. Released from detention in 1949. A preliminary investigation by the District Court of Nuremberg-Fürth, begun in January 1950, was called off in August 1950.

German Commanders linked with Ukrainian Reichskommissariat

* SS-Gruppenführer Walther Schimana
* SS-Brigadeführer Fritz Freitag
* SS-Brigadeführer Sylvester Stadler
* SS-Brigadeführer Nikolaus Heilmann
* SS-Hauptsturmführer Otto Behrendt
* SS-Sturmbannführer Wolf-Dieter Heike
* SS-Hauptsturmführer Herben Schaaf
* SS-Hauptsturmführer Herbert Schaut

Walther Schimana

Fritz Freitag

Sylvester Stadler

Nikolaus Heilmann

Ukrainian volunteers in the German forces

* Abwehr/Brandemburg special saboteur unit "Nightingale Regiment"
* 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (Ukrainische Nr. 1)
* Freiwilligen-Stamm-Regiment 3 & 4(Russians & Ukrainians)
* Ukrainian National Army

Ukraine propaganda news

* Ukrainskyi Dobrovoletz (Der ukrainische Kämpfer) - Ukrainische Freiwilligenverbände

Ukrainian units in the German work organization

* Organization Todt OT-Einsatzgruppe Ost (Kiev)

Ukrainian organizations

* Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN)
* Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)
* Ukrainian National Committee
* Free Ukrainian Kossacks Organization

Ukrainian collaborators (heads of local administration and public figures)

* Oleksander Ohloblyn (Kiev mayor, 1941)
* Volodymyr Bahaziy (Kiev mayor, 1941–1942, executed by Germans in 1942)
* Leontii Forostivsky (Kiev mayor, 1942–1943)
* Mykola Velychkivsky (head of the Ukrainian National Committee in Kiev, dismissed in 1942, later emigrated)
* Fedir Bohatyrchuk (head of the Ukrainian Red Cross, 1941–1942)
* Ivan Rohach (journalist, public figure, executed in 1942)
* Oleksii Kramarenko (Kharkiv mayor, 1941–1942, executed by Germans in 1943)
* Oleksander Semenenko (Kharkiv mayor, 1942–1943)
* Paul Kozakevich (Kharkiv mayor, 1943)
* Aleksandr Sevastianov (Vinnytsia mayor, 1941 – ?)

Security

The Wehrmacht was pressured for political reasons to gradually restore private properties in zones under military control and accept the local volunteer recruits into their units and the Waffen SS, promoted by local nationalists organizations O.U.M. and U.P.A., whilst receiving political support from the Wehrmacht.

The Reichsführer-SS and chief of German Police, Heinrich Himmler initially had direct authority over any SS formations in Ukraine to order "Security Operations", but soon lost it. Especially after the summer of 1942 when he tried to regain control over policing in Ukraine by gaining authority for the collection of the harvest and failed miserably, in large part because Koch withheld cooperation. Ironically, in Ukraine, Himmler soon became the voice of relative moderation, hoping that an improvement in the Ukrainians living conditions would encourage greater numbers of them to join the waffen SS's foreign divisions. Koch properly nicknamed "hangman of Ukraine" was contemptuous of Himmler's efforts. In this he was supported by Hitler who was sceptical when he was not hostile to the idea of recruiting Slavs in general and Soviet nationals in particular to the Wehrmacht.

Economic Exploitation

In the civil administration of the East Affair ministry worked numerous technical staff Slavs under Georg Leibbrandt, former chief of the east section of overseas political office in the Party, now chief of the political section in the East Ministry, and his deputy Otto Bräutigam, previously consul with experience in the Soviet Union. Economic affairs remained under the direct management of Hermann Göring the Plenipotentiary of Four-Years Plan and Oldenburg State Major, and Fritz Saukel was charged with working with the General Plenipotentiary of Manpower recruitment, though in Ukraine Koch insisted that Saukel confine himself to setting requirements leaving the actual "recruitment" to Koch and his brutes. The Todt Organization Ost Branch in the land. Other members of the German administration in Ukraine were Generalkommissar Leyser and Gebietkommissar Steudel.

The Ministry of Transport had direct control of "Ostbahns" and "Generalverkersdirektion Osten" (the railway administration in the Eastern territories). These German central government interventions in the affairs of the East Affairs by ministries were known as Sonderverwaltungen (special administrations).

The position of the Eastern Affairs Ministry was weak because its department chiefs: (Economy, Work, Foods & Crops and Forest & Woods) held similar posts in other government departments (The Four-Year Plan, Eastern Economic Office, Foods and Farming Ministry, etc.) with other supplementary junior staff. Thus the East Ministry was managed by personal criteria and particular interests over official orders. Additionally, they failed to maintain the "Political Section" at an equal level with more specialized departments (Economy, Works, Farms, etc.) because political considerations clashed with exploitation plans in the territory.

The Reichskommissariat Ukraine paid Occupation taxes and funds to the German Reich until February 1944 the following amounts:

* 1,246,1 M German Reichsmark
* 107,9 M Soviet rubles

In accord with information composed by Schwerin von Krosig the Reich Ministry of Finances.

The Ministry of East Affairs ordered Koch and the Reichskommissar in Ostland in March 1942 to supply 380,000 farm workers and 247,000 industrial workers for German work needs. Later Koch was mentioned during the new year message of 1943, how he "recruited" 710,000 workers in Ukraine. This and subsequent 'worker registration' drives in Ukraine would eventually backfire after the Battle of Kursk when the Germans would attempt to build a defensive line along the Dnieper only to discover that the necessary manpower had been either recruited to forced labour in Germany or had gone underground to forestall such "recruitment".

Alfred Rosenberg implemented an "Agrarian New Order" in Ukraine, ordering the confiscation of Soviet state properties to establish German state properties. Additionally the replacement of Russian Kolkhozes and Sovkhozes, by their own "Gemeindwirtschaften" (German Communal Farms), the installation of state enterprise "Landbewirstschaftungsgessellschaft Ukraine M.b.H." for managing the new German state farms and cooperatives, and the foundation of numerous "Kombines" (Great German exploitation Monopolies) with government or private capital in the territory, to exploit the resources and Donbass area.

Hitler said "Ukraine and the East lands would produce 7 Million, or more likely 10 or 12 Million of Metric tonnes of Grain to provide Germany's food needs".

Population

The official German press, in 1941, reported the Ukrainian urban and rural populations as 19 millions each. The civil authorities in the Reichskommissariaten reported their combined population as 16,910,008 people. The 1926 Soviet official census recorded the urban population as 5,373,553 and the rural population as 23,669,381 - a total of 29,042,934. In 1939 a new census reported the Ukrainian urban population as 11,195,620 and rural population as 19,764,601; a total of 30,960,221. The Ukrainian Soviets counted 17% of total Soviet population.

German and Dutch settlement

The regime was planning to encourage settlement of German and Dutch farmers in the region after the war, along with the empowerment of some ethnic Germans in the territory. Another alleged objective was the creation of a "Ukrainian Independent State" supportive of the German Cause. This land and the Caucasus were the supposed residence of ancient German Gothic tribes. The sending of Dutch settlers was charged to the "Nederlandsche Oost-Compagnie", NOC, a Dutch-German Company dedicated to encourage the colonization of the east by Dutch citizens.

The German civil administration met "Volksdeutsche" (ethnic Germans) in Mykolaiv, Zaporizhia and Dnipropetrovsk. The archives of the Soviet census in 1926 counted them as 393,924 persons. The Soviets counted ethnic Germans in all Russia at 1,423,534, or 1% of the total population in 1939.

The administration took measures to protect Germans in the area who were entered on their Volksdeutsch racial list. They received special rights

* the return of their land and property prior to the Soviet Revolution
* permission to return to visit parents in the motherland
* the creation of special German resident zones in Dnipropetrovsk and other areas
* encouraged recruitment to the German Army or service in the civil administration in the territory, amongst other special measures.

In Ukraine the Germans published a "local" journal in the German language, the Deutsche Ukrainezeitung.

During the occupation a very small number of cities and their accompanying districts maintained German names. These cities were designated as urban strongholds for Volksdeutsche natives. Hegewald (Himmler's field headquarters and the location of a small, experimental German colony), Halbstadt (a German Mennonite settlement), Alexanderstadt, and Kronau were some of these.

Last Edit: Aug 12, 2010 4:46:24 GMT -7 by pieter

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indianamike Full Pole Posts: 255	How Germany rejected Dutch settler farmers Aug 12, 2010 10:16:44 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by indianamike on Aug 12, 2010 10:16:44 GMT -7 What do you think could have been done to change things than? Why did this go on? Mike

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How Germany rejected Dutch settler farmers Aug 12, 2010 11:26:47 GMT -7

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Post by pieter on Aug 12, 2010 11:26:47 GMT -7

Aug 12, 2010 10:16:44 GMT -7 indianamike said:

What do you think could have been done to change things than? Why did this go on?

Mike

Mike,

In my belief the Nazi regime was a anti-human, immoral, indoctrinating, extremely powerful regime, which was difficult to defeat, due to the mix of Prussian, Austrian and Baviarian militairism, technological superiority, German socialism (that is what Nazism is, a gründliche, thoroughly, sytematic, technocratic, very advanced form of socialism), the full suport of a Nation and a lot of collaborating minorities and sometimes majorities or regimes within other European Nations (the Dutch, Belgian, Danish, Norwegian, French, Hungarian, Rumanian, Italian Fascist, Ukrainian, Russian and Baltic support). And don't forget the Axis of Berlin, Rome and Tokiyo. The Japanese kept the allies bussy in the far east too.

In Eastern-Europe the Nazi's were almighty, because the Sovjets had then (in the beginning and halfways the war inferoir equipment compared with the Nazi-militairy equipment). The Nazi's had their own Wehrmacht, SS and Police forces in the Ukraine and the support of Fascist Ukrainian henchmen.

The Nazi's abused Friedrich Nietzsches philosophy and mixed it with their social darwinism, biological anti-semitism and racism. They cleansed themselves of the Christian and Jewish morality which they dispised. The Nazi's merged Nietsches ideas with the anti-semitic ideas of Wagner, which Nietsche was opposed to.

Nietsche and morality

Nietzsche in Basel, ca. 1875

In Daybreak Nietzsche begins his "Campaign against Morality". He calls himself an "immoralist" and harshly criticizes the prominent moral schemes of his day: Christianity, Kantianism, and utilitarianism. In Ecce Homo Nietzsche called the establishment of moral systems based on a dichotomy of good and evil a "calamitous error", and wished to initiate a re-evaluation of the values of the Judeo-Christian world. He indicates his desire to bring about a new, more naturalistic source of value in the vital impulses of life itself.

In both these works, Nietzsche's genealogical account of the development of master-slave morality occupies a central place. Nietzsche presents master-morality as the original system of morality—perhaps best associated with Homeric Greece. Here, value arises as a contrast between good and bad, or between 'life-affirming' and 'life-denying': wealth, strength, health, and power, the sort of traits found in a Homeric hero, count as good; while bad is associated with the poor, weak, sick, and pathetic, the sort of traits conventionally associated with slaves in ancient times.

Slave-morality, in contrast, comes about as a reaction to master-morality. Nietzsche associates slave-morality with the Jewish and Christian traditions. Here, value emerges from the contrast between good and evil: good being associated with other-worldliness, charity, piety, restraint, meekness, and submission; evil seen as worldly, cruel, selfish, wealthy, and aggressive. Nietzsche sees slave-morality born out of the ressentiment of slaves. It works to overcome the slave's own sense of inferiority before the (better-off) masters. It does so by making out slave weakness to be a matter of choice, by, e.g., relabeling it as "meekness."

Nietzsche sees the slave-morality as a source of the nihilism that has overtaken Europe. In Nietzsche's eyes, modern Europe, and its Christianity, exists in a hypocritical state due to a tension between master and slave morality, both values contradictorily determining, to varying degrees, the values of most Europeans (who are "motley"). Nietzsche calls for exceptional people to no longer be ashamed of their uniqueness in the face of a supposed morality-for-all, which Nietzsche deems to be harmful to the flourishing of exceptional people. However, Nietzsche cautions that morality, per se, is not bad; it is good for the masses, and should be left to them. Exceptional people, on the other hand, should follow their own "inner law." A favorite motto of Nietzsche, taken from Pindar, reads: "Become what you are."

Death of God, nihilism, perspectivism

The statement "God is dead", occurring in several of Nietzsche's works (notably in The Gay Science), has become one of his best-known remarks. On the basis of it, most commentators regard Nietzsche as an atheist; others (such as Kaufmann) suggest that this statement reflects a more subtle understanding of divinity. In Nietzsche's view, recent developments in modern science and the increasing secularization of European society had effectively 'killed' the Christian God, who had served as the basis for meaning and value in the West for more than a thousand years.

Nietzsche claimed the death of God would eventually lead to the loss of any universal perspective on things, and along with it any coherent sense of objective truth. Instead we would retain only our own multiple, diverse, and fluid perspectives. This view has acquired the name "perspectivism".

Alternatively, the death of God may lead beyond bare perspectivism to outright nihilism, the belief that nothing has any inherent importance and that life lacks purpose. As Heidegger put the problem, "If God as the suprasensory ground and goal of all reality is dead, if the suprasensory world of the Ideas has suffered the loss of its obligatory and above it its vitalizing and upbuilding power, then nothing more remains to which man can cling and by which he can orient himself." Developing this idea, Nietzsche wrote Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Also sprach Zarathustra), therein introducing the concept of a value-creating Übermensch. According to Lampert, "the death of God must be followed by a long twilight of piety and nihilism (II. 19; III. 8). […] Zarathustra's gift of the superman is given to a mankind not aware of the problem to which the superman is the solution."

Will to power

An important element of Nietzsche's philosophical outlook is the "will to power" (der Wille zur Macht), which provides a basis for understanding motivation in human behavior. This concept may have wide application, as Nietzsche, in a number of places, also suggests that the will to power is a more important element than pressure for adaptation or survival. According to Nietzsche, only in limited situations the drive for conservation is precedent over the will to power: namely, when life is reduced to a condition of poverty and limitation. The natural condition of life, according to him, is one of profusion. In its later forms Nietzsche's concept of the will to power applies to all living things, suggesting that adaptation and the struggle to survive is a secondary drive in the evolution of animals, less important than the desire to expand one’s power. Nietzsche eventually took this concept further still, and speculated that it may apply to inorganic nature as well. He transformed the idea of matter as centers of force into matter as centers of will to power. Nietzsche wanted to dispense with the atomistic theory of matter, a theory which he viewed as a relic of the metaphysics of substance. One study of Nietzsche defines his fully developed concept of the will to power as "the element from which derive both the quantitative difference of related forces and the quality that devolves into each force in this relation" revealing the will to power as "the principle of the synthesis of forces."

Nietzsche's notion of the will to power can also be viewed as a response to Schopenhauer's "will to live." Writing a generation before Nietzsche, Schopenhauer had regarded the entire universe and everything in it as driven by a primordial will to live, thus resulting in all creatures' desire to avoid death and to procreate. Nietzsche, however, challenges Schopenhauer's account and suggests that people and animals really want power; living in itself appears only as a subsidiary aim—something necessary to promote one's power. Defending his view, Nietzsche describes instances where people and animals willingly risk their lives to gain power—most notably in instances like competitive fighting and warfare. Once again, Nietzsche seems to take part of his inspiration from the ancient Homeric Greek texts he knew well: Greek heroes and aristocrats or "masters" did not desire mere living (they often died quite young and risked their lives in battle) but wanted power, glory, and greatness. In this regard he often mentions the common Greek theme of agon or contest.

Arthur Schopenhauer

In addition to Schopenhauer's psychological views, Nietzsche contrasts his notion of the will to power with many of the other most popular psychological views of his day, such as that of utilitarianism. Utilitarianism—a philosophy mainly promoted, in Nietzsche's days and before, by British thinkers such as Bentham and Stuart Mill—claims that all people fundamentally want to be happy. But this conception of happiness found in utilitarianism Nietzsche rejected as something limited to, and characteristic of, English society only. Also Platonism and Christian neo-Platonism–which claim that people ultimately want to achieve unity with The Good or with God–are philosophies he criticizes. In each case, Nietzsche argues that the "will to power" provides a more useful and general explanation of human behavior.

Übermensch

Another concept important to an understanding of Nietzsche's thought is the Übermensch. While interpretations of Nietzsche's overman vary wildly, here are a few of his quotes from Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Prologue, §§3–4):

"I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him? … All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood, and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is ape to man? A laughing stock or painful embarrassment. And man shall be that to overman: a laughingstock or painful embarrassment. You have made your way from worm to man, and much in you is still worm. Once you were apes, and even now, too, man is more ape than any ape.... The overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth.... Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman—a rope over an abyss … what is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end."

Thus Spoke Zarathustra, the German original version

Nietsches philosophy which inspired the Nazi's

Friedrich Nietzsche, 1882e

Nietzsche’s works remain controversial, and there is widespread disagreement about their interpretation and significance. Part of the difficulty in interpreting Nietzsche arises from the uniquely provocative style of his philosophical writing. Nietzsche frequently delivered trenchant critiques of Christianity in the most offensive and blasphemous terms possible given the context of 19th century Europe. These aspects of Nietzsche's style run counter to traditional values in philosophical writing, and they alienated him from the academic establishment both in his time and, to a lesser extent, today. Some analytic philosophers dismiss Nietzsche as inconsistent and speculative, producing something other than "real" philosophy.

A few of the themes that Nietzsche scholars have devoted the most attention to include Nietzsche's views on morality, his view that "God is dead" (and along with it any sort of God's-eye view on the world thus leading to perspectivism), his notions of the will to power and Übermensch, and his suggestion of eternal return.

Pieter

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Alfred Rosenberg

Alfred Rosenberg (12 January 1893 – 16 October 1946) was an early and intellectually influential member of the Nazi Party. Rosenberg was first introduced to Adolf Hitler by Dietrich Eckart; he later held several important posts in the Nazi government. He is considered one of the main authors of key Nazi ideological creeds, including its racial theory, persecution of the Jews, Lebensraum, abrogation of the Treaty of Versailles, and opposition to "degenerate" modern art. He is also known for his rejection of Christianity, having played an important role in the development of Positive Christianity, which he intended to be transitional to a new Nazi faith. At Nuremberg he was tried, sentenced to death and executed by hanging as a war criminal.

Early career

Rosenberg was born in Revel (today's Tallinn, in Estonia, then part of the Russian Empire) to a family of Baltic Germans. It was claimed in the 1930s by Tallinn archivist J. Rajandi that his family had Estonian origins. His father was a wealthy merchant from Latvia, his mother from Estonia. Rosenberg studied architecture at the Riga Polytechnical Institute and engineering at Moscow Highest Technical School, completing his Ph.D. studies in 1917. During the Russian Revolution of 1917, he supported the counter-revolutionaries and, following their failure, Rosenberg emigrated to Germany in 1918 along with Max Scheubner-Richter who was something of a mentor to Rosenberg and his ideology. He arrived in Munich and contributed to Dietrich Eckart's publication, the Völkischer Beobachter (People's Observer). By this time, he was both an anti-Semite, influenced by Houston Stewart Chamberlain's book The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century (one of the key proto-Nazi books of racial theory) and an anti-bolshevist as a result of his family's exile.

Rosenberg was one of the earliest members of the German Workers Party (later the National Socialist German Workers Party, better known as the Nazi Party), joining in January 1919; Adolf Hitler did not join until October 1919. Rosenberg had also been a member of the Thule Society, with Eckart. Rosenberg became editor of the Völkischer Beobachter, the Nazi party newspaper, in 1923.

The Beer Hall Putsch in in Munich, Bavaria, november 1923

In 1923 after the failed Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler — who had been imprisoned for treason — appointed Rosenberg as a leader of the Nazi movement, a position he held until Hitler was released. Hitler remarked privately in later years that his choice of Rosenberg, whom he regarded as weak and lazy, was strategic; Hitler did not want the temporary leader of the Nazis to be overly popular or hungry for power, because a person with either of the two qualities might not want to cede the party leadership after Hitler's release.

In 1929, Rosenberg founded the Militant League for German Culture. He later formed the Institute for the Study of the Jewish Question, dedicated to identifying and attacking Jewish influence in German culture and to recording the history of Judaism from an antisemitic perspective. He became a Reichstag Deputy in 1930 and published his book on racial theory The Myth of the Twentieth Century (Der Mythus des 20. Jahrhunderts) which deals with key issues in the national socialist ideology, such as the "Jewish question". It was intended as a sequel to Houston Stewart Chamberlain's above-cited book. Despite selling more than a million copies by 1945, its influence within Nazism is doubtful. It is often said to have been a book that was officially venerated within Nazism, but that few actually read beyond the first chapter or even found comprehensible. Hitler called it "stuff nobody can understand" and disapproved of its pseudo-religious tone.

Rosenberg's attitude towards Soviet Bolshevism obviously had some influence on Hitler. He convinced Hitler of the Communist threat and the supposed fragility of the Soviet political structure. "Jewish-Bolshevism" was accepted as a target for Nazism during the early 1920s.

Rosenberg was named leader of the Nazi Party's foreign political office in 1933, but he played little practical part in the role. His visit to Britain in that year was designed to reassure the British that the Nazis would not be a threat, and to encourage links between the new regime and the British Empire. It was a notable failure. When Rosenberg laid a wreath bearing a swastika at the tomb of the unknown soldier, a British war veteran threw it into the Thames. In January 1934 he was deputized by Hitler with responsibility for the spiritual and philosophical education of the Party and all related organizations.

Racial theories

As the Nazi Party's chief racial theorist, Rosenberg was in charge of building a human racial ladder that justified Hitler's genocidal policies. Rosenberg built on the works of Arthur de Gobineau, Houston Stewart Chamberlain and Madison Grant, as well as the beliefs of Hitler. He considered blacks and Jews to be at the very bottom of the ladder, while at the very top stood the white or "Aryan" race. Rosenberg promoted the Nordic theory which considered Germans to be the "master race", superior to all others, including other Aryans: the Nordic and the Indo-Iranians.

Rosenberg reshaped Nazi racial policy throughout the years, but it always consisted of white supremacy, extreme German nationalism and rabid anti-Semitism. Rosenberg was also an outspoken opponent of homosexuality, notably in his pamphlet "Der Sumpf" ("The Swamp"), having viewed homosexuality (particularly lesbianism) as a hindrance to the expansion of the Nordic population.

Rosenberg's attitude towards the Slavs of Eastern Europe was more uncertain. Many Nazis considered Slavs to be part of an inferior race to be subjugated, but Rosenberg suggested that they were also Aryans who could be integrated into the Third Reich.

Religious theories

Rosenberg argued for a new "religion of the blood," based on the supposed innate promptings of the Nordic soul to defend its noble character against racial and cultural degeneration. He believed that this had been embodied in early Indo-European religions, notably ancient European (Celtic, Germanic, Baltic, Roman) paganism, Zoroastrianism and Vedic Hinduism. Unlike Heinrich Himmler, he had less attachment to Buddhism. Following Chamberlain's ideas, he condemned what he called "negative Christianity," the orthodox beliefs of Protestant and Catholic churches, arguing instead for a so-called "positive" Christianity based on Chamberlain's claim that Jesus was a member of a Nordic enclave resident in ancient Galilee who struggled against Judaism. For Rosenberg religious doctrine was not important; what mattered was that a belief should serve the interests of the Nordic race, connecting the individual to his racial nature. Rosenberg stated that "The general ideas of the Roman and of the Protestant churches are negative Christianity and do not, therefore, accord with our (German) soul."

Wartime activities

Alfred Rosenberg around 1935

In 1940 Rosenberg was made head of the Hohe Schule (literally "high school", but in Germanic languages refers to a college), the Centre of National Socialist Ideological and Educational Research. He created a "Special Task Force for Music" (Sonderstab Musik) to collect the best musical instruments and scores for use in a university to be built in Hitler's hometown of Linz, Austria. The orders given the Sonderstab Musik were to loot all forms of Jewish property in Germany and of those found in any country taken over by the German army and any musical instruments or scores were to be immediately shipped to Berlin.

Reich Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories

Following the invasion of the USSR, Rosenberg was appointed head of the Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories (Reichsministerium für die besetzten Ostgebiete). Alfred Meyer served as his deputy and represented him at the Wannsee Conference. Another official of the Ministry, Georg Leibbrandt, also attended the conference, at Rosenberg's request.

Alfred Meyer

Rosenberg had presented Hitler with his plan for the organization of the conquered Eastern territories, suggesting the establishment of new administrative districts, to replace the previously Soviet-controlled territories with new Reichskommissariats. These would be:

* Ostland (Baltic countries and Belarus),
* Ukraine (Ukraine and nearest territories),
* Kaukasus (Caucasia area),
* Moskau (Moscow metropolitan area and the rest of nearest Russian European areas)

Such suggestions were intended to encourage non-Russian nationalism and to promote German interests for the benefit of future Aryan generations, in accord with geopolitical "Lebensraum im Osten" plans. They would provide a buffer against Soviet expansion in preparation for the total eradication of Communism and Bolshevism by decisive pre-emptive military action.

Following these plans, when Wehrmacht forces invaded Soviet-controlled territory, they immediately implemented the first of the proposed Reichskommissariats of Ostland and Ukraine, under the leadership of Hinrich Lohse and Erich Koch, respectively. The organization of these administrative territories led to conflict between Rosenberg and the SS over the treatment of Slavs under German occupation. Rosenberg was appalled at the displacement, enslavement, and sometimes genocide of non-Jews in occupied Eastern countries. As Nazi Germany's chief racial theorist, Rosenberg considered Slavs, though lesser than Germans, to be Aryan. Rosenberg often complained to Hitler and Himmler about the treatment of non-Jewish occupied peoples. According to Kevin P. Spicer, while most Nazis intended direct German control and exploitation of Slavic peoples, Rosenberg "envisioned a system of Slavic satellite states under German suzerainty." He made no complaints about the murders of Jews, however. At the Nuremberg Trials he claimed to be ignorant of the Holocaust, despite the fact that Leibbrandt and Meyer were present at the Wannsee conference.

Wartime propaganda efforts

Because the invasion of the Soviet Union to impose the New Order was essentially a war of conquest and extermination, German propaganda efforts designed to win over Russian opinion were patchy and inconsistent. Alfred Rosenberg was one of the few in the Nazi hierarchy who advocated a policy designed to encourage anti-Communist opinion.

Amongst other things, Rosenberg issued a series of posters announcing the end of the Soviet collective farms (kolkhoz). He also issued an Agrarian Law in February 1942, annulling all Soviet legislation on farming, restoring family farms for those willing to collaborate with the occupiers. But decollectivisation conflicted with the wider demands of wartime food production, and Hermann Göring demanded that the collective farms be retained, save for a change of name. Hitler himself denounced the redistribution of land as "stupid".

Hermann Göring

Adolf Hitler

There were also numerous German armed forces (Wehrmacht) posters asking for assistance in the Bandenkrieg, the war against the Soviet partisans, though, once again, German policy had the effect of adding to their problems. Posters for "volunteer" labour, with inscriptions like "Come work with us to shorten the war", hid the appalling realities faced by Russian workers in Germany. Many people joined the partisans rather than risk being sent to an unknown fate in the west.

Another of Rosenberg's initiatives, the "Free Caucasus" campaign, was rather more successful, attracting various nationalities into the so-called Eastern Legion (Ostlegionen), though in the end this made little difference.

Trial and execution

Alfred Rosenberg at the Nuremberg trials. Rosenberg is first from right, with Hans Frank (centre) and Alfred Jodl (left)

Alfred Rosenberg after his hanging

Rosenberg was captured by Allied troops at the end of the war. He was tried at Nuremberg and found guilty of conspiracy to commit crimes against peace; planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression; war crimes; and crimes against humanity. He was sentenced to death and executed with other condemned co-defendants at Nuremberg on the morning of 16 October 1946. Throughout the trial, it was agreed that Rosenberg had a decisive role in shaping Nazi philosophy and ideology; such examples include: his book, Myth of the Twentieth Century, which was published in 1930, where he incited hatred against "Liberal Imperialism" and "Bolshevik Marxism"; furthering the influence of the "Lebensraum" idea in Germany during the war; facilitating the persecution of Christian churches and the Jews in general; and opposition to the Versailles Treaty during the war.

According to Howard K. Smith, who covered the executions for the International News Service, Rosenberg was the only condemned man, who when asked at the gallows if he had any last statement to make, replied with only one word: "No".

Rosenberg and Hermann Göring were born on the same day (12 January 1893), and had Göring not committed suicide the night before his planned execution, they would also have died the same day.

Nazi policy and Rosenberg's views

Hitler was a leader oriented towards practical politics, whereas, for Rosenberg, religion and philosophy were key.

Rosenberg's influence in the Nazi Party is controversial. He was perceived as lacking the charisma and political skills of the other Nazi leaders, and was somewhat isolated. In some of his speeches Hitler appeared to be close to Rosenberg's views: rejecting traditional Christianity as a religion based on Jewish culture, preferring an ethnically and culturally pure "Race" whose destiny was supposed to be assigned to the German people by "Providence". In others, he adhered to the Nazi Party line, which advocated a "positive Christianity".

After Hitler's assumption of power he moved to reassure the Protestant and Catholic churches that the party was not intending to reinstitute Germanic paganism. He placed himself in the position of being the man to save Christianity from utter destruction at the hands of the atheistic Communists of the Soviet Union. This was especially true immediately before and after the elections of 1932; Hitler wanted to appear non-threatening to major Christian faiths and consolidate his power. Further, Hitler felt that Catholic-Protestant infighting had been a major factor in weakening the German state and allowing its dominance by foreign powers.

Some Nazi leaders, such as Martin Bormann, were anti-Christian and sympathetic to Rosenberg. Once in power, however, Hitler and most Nazi leaders sought to unify the Christian denominations in favor of "positive Christianity." They privately complained about Rosenberg's radical, openly anti-Christian views; they also did not support small neo-pagan groups that were seeking parity with Christianity, which Rosenberg encouraged. However, Goebbels and Hitler both agreed that after the Endsieg (Final Victory) the Reich Church should be pressed into evolving into a German social evolutionist organisation proclaiming the cult of race, blood and battle, instead of Redemption and the Ten Commandments of Moses, which they deemed outdated and "Jewish."

Lieutenant Colonel W.H. Dunn wrote a medical and psychiatric report on him in prison to evaluate him as a suicide risk:

He gave the impression of clinging to his own theories in a fanatical and unyielding fashion and to have been little influenced by the unfolding during the trial of the cruelty and crimes of the party.

Summarizing the unresolved conflict between the personal views of Rosenberg and the pragmatism of the Nazi elite:

The ruthless pursuit of Nazi aims turned out to mean not, as Rosenberg had hoped, the permeation of German life with the new ideology; it meant concentration of the combined resources of party and state on total war.

Family life

Rosenberg was married twice. He married his first wife, Hilda Leesmann, an ethnic Estonian, in 1915; after eight years of marriage, they divorced in 1923. He married his second wife, Hedwig Kramer, in 1925; the marriage lasted until his death. He and Kramer had two children; a son, who died in infancy, and a daughter, Irene; who was born in 1930. His daughter has refused contact with anyone seeking information about her father.

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indianamike Full Pole Posts: 255	How Germany rejected Dutch settler farmers Aug 12, 2010 12:18:40 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by indianamike on Aug 12, 2010 12:18:40 GMT -7 Thank you I learned many things from your posting. Mike

pieter Global Moderator Senior member Posts: 30,424 Member is Online	How Germany rejected Dutch settler farmers Aug 12, 2010 13:15:29 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by pieter on Aug 12, 2010 13:15:29 GMT -7 You're welcome Mike!
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