Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #15 on Nov 26, 2006, 8:21am »
Quote:
From everything I've read it is very important to get the "engine" of the language into the child's head as early as possible. Once it is there the child can easily drive two cars simultaneously as opposed to driving one car in different ways. If you see what I mean. Zosia has English and Polish engines, she just prefers driving the Polish car right now, because she's on Polish roads.
Scatts from all the knoledge I have acquired on bilingualism elsewhere, yours is the best and up to the point summary of the matter. My personal opinion and not very original all of us will probably agree. Giving a child an occasion to become bilingual is a gain, as the kid has two whole cultural worlds as 'own'. Missing that occasion is a terrible loss. And pain for the family from the neglected language site.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,266 Location: Poe-land
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #16 on Nov 26, 2006, 11:15am »
7 years ago, when our first son was born, I thought that I would be able to provide a bilingual environment for him at least at home i.e. I would try to communicate in English most of the time while my wife in Polish.
Well, I wasn`t consequent enough. After 7 or 10 lessons in regular schools per day I was often too tired to speak English at home. That would be too much.
I started teaching my son English when he was 3. That was quite OK, he has a real knack for the language, very quick at remembering words, and a very good ear for sounds.
We have lessons when I am free and not too tired, e.g., on Sundays or during holidays. We do books which I use at school or private lessons. So far we have finished 5 or 6 titles.
One remark. After finishing each title, I always take the class cassettes into the car and whenever we drive together for a longer time, they listen to the cassettes. I also take them on holidays.
He isn`t bilingual but I achieved some successes too. For some time there was even a problem with his Polish pronunciation because he used to employ "th" sounds in some Polish words. Shortly speaking, he liked to lisp. A logopedist told us to stop English for a while because it got too dangerous.
At 3-4, he could say numbers in English before he knew them in Polish.
Today, he can read anything designed for children, either in English or Polish quite fluently. He understands what he is spoken to and reacts properly. He has a very good pronunciation and accent.
He cannot create too advanced and lengthy utterances on his own, though. I still have to help him a lot.
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #17 on Nov 28, 2006, 7:25am »
Sorry, I've been very busy at work recently, so I've only just got round to reading all these posts - it's interesting to see people with similar problems. My 2 were born in England, but left 7 years ago at the age of 4 and 3. Over there we tried to make the house as Polish as possible - satellite TV, always some Polish relation or other living in, me reading Tuwim and Brzechwa at bedtime despite my poor Polish. The kids' first language was Polish - which shocked English family and friends - but they could still speak English pretty well (though not native level). After emigrating to Poland it was the reverse story. Sky TV has been a blessing - TV straight from the UK. My wife speaks excellent English, and speaks mainly English at home and often in public with them. Now they're older I've started teaching them English formally. Every Saturday I teach my two and a 10 year-old Polish-American boy. It's not easy, as I've never taught English as a first language before - it's totally different to teaching it as a foreign language (I'm a qualified teacher of French, so swapped to teaching English on emigrating). Without good written English (or, alternatively, Polish) all foundations are built on sand. They can't develop their non-local language without structure - merely reading books or watching TV isn't a strong enough linguistic influence. How would you feel if you went to a country you scarcely know as a young adult and struggle to write something, only to get looked down on as some half-literate. Not a pleasant prospect. Having said that, videos and DVDs are excellent with kids. Younger English speakers (1-7) respond well to language-rich programmes like Thomas the Tank Engine and Fireman Sam, whereas my kids loved (and learned a lot of English) from things like Walking with Dinosaurs and Shrek! If they watch their favourite (intelligent) videos often enough, they learn the entire soundtrack off by heart. Just like your teacher at school made you learn "Pod lipê". They're currently into the 2 new series of Doctor Who, which teaches them loads of cultural things as well as expanding their English and being entertainment. You can get them through Amazon or record them off Sky. Why TV and videos? Well, how are you going to create an English-rich environment? How is your kid going to fit in in the other country if they lack popular cultural references? Brits abroad have to know things like: Wayne Rooney is a thuggish but brilliant football player, Big Ben is a clock tower in central London, bits and bobs about the royal family etc That all comes from TV and visits. You can't sit them down and teach them it formally - that'd be absurd. What you can do is make the odd little serious comment. What else? .... sorry - work's just come in, I'll post again later
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #18 on Nov 28, 2006, 7:59am »
Back again. My two are still not too old for the occasional bedtime story, though they nearly are. In addition to Greek myths (i.e. sex and violence!) I read folk tale versions of British history from a book entitled Britannia - so they know about Scott and Oates, Henry the Eighth, the Witchfinder-General, Cromwell etc. Bite-sized dramatic histories at bedtime. The kids enjoy it as entertainment and 'time with Dad' - me too - but it's also high-octane, concentrated transmission of cultural knowlege par excellence. Then there's November 5th - possibly the only truly British cultural event left in modern times. Sending up those fireworks is still fun - and the neighbours get warned in advance, or invited! Americans can join in too - they celebrated "Pope's Day" until the Revolution. OK, I'm Catholic, so I play down the Catholic element, but you can still say what a load of rubbish the Stuarts were and how evil the plotters were. This year was special as we went to England for a long weekend and celebrated properly. And stopped over in York for a few days (the guesthouse was next to Guy Fawkes' old school, where I'd played rugby and cricket as a kid). What tires me a bit is the fact that all this doesn't happen totally naturally on my part - though the kids aren't aware of that. It would be so easy to let their English alter ego slip away bit by bit. There's a big burden placed on me to make up in cultural terms for all the things they're missing by not being in England. On the other hand, I can choose the bits about English culture I find worthwhile, and not expose them to negative aspects too much at this stage. Mind you, I had them repeat swear words after me!! Then I let them watch a Gordon Ramsey TV show (a celebrity chef famous for swearing). It's a bind, it's a pain, but in the end my kids are English when they need to be English, and Polish when they need to be Polish. They have the best of both worlds and we constantly and consistently reinforce the mantra that they are both English AND Polish. And we give them the skills to show it. Now we're starting to teach them French - by contrast it's so formal and unnatural, and they show the usual childlike resistance to learning which is absent in English and Polish dealings at home.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 15,992 Location: Idaho
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #19 on Nov 28, 2006, 8:29pm »
Quote:
Jaga,
I think that for your child living in the US, how you have proceded is probably the best for her education. I teach reading in the public schools, and we frequently see that students who speak a non-English language at home and only English at school may start out all right learning to decode the written words, but once they get to third or fourth grade, they fall behind in comprehension simply because they have not acquired that more extensive vocabulary that the native English speaking children have. This lack of a broader vocabulary inhibits their learning in all the curriculum areas. So I think the discussion about what to teach children so they will be bilingual depends a lot on their age and in what language their schools are educating them. My opinion is that for very young children who have not yet/or are just entering school, if at all possible and the parents are able, they should primarily speak at home the language that the children will be educated in. The other language should be spoken casually to enable them to learn enough to converse about everyday things and "survive" a visit to that other culture. Again, just my opinion.
Jeanne
Jeanne,
thanks for your post You made me feel better about myself. My husband is also afraid that I may confuse Ela but I think that....maybe I lost a chance of her to be really bilingual. It is such a hard question, hard to figure out what is really the best for the child. On the other hand, Ela wants to be just like other kids
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 15,992 Location: Idaho
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #20 on Nov 28, 2006, 8:31pm »
Jeanne and all,
one more remark. I believe that if we would be living in Chicago or another area with big Polish-American population it would be easier for Ela. She would be able to attend Saturday language school and she would know other bilingual kids (Polish-English). But here in Idaho... no chance
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,189 Location: St. Peters, MO
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #21 on Nov 28, 2006, 11:21pm »
I think most people try to over-analyze things. Kids will learn WHATEVER is presented to them. It's God's way of making sure the specie survives. A child born with only one leg is not handicapped: he knows no other world and adapts like it is the norm. Just the way it is.
My friend at work is from Norway. She speaks only Norwegian to her two girls from birth. Her husband is American, he speaks only English. Their girls are now adolescent, and speak Norwegian to the mom, English to the dad, and mostly English in mixed company. No special classes, no physiologists or anything of the like. Kids suck this up like a sponge, and if you have the opportunity to help your kids truly be bilingual and don't do it, you've done them a dis-service. My mom COULD have taught me Polish, but didn't. That will never, EVER completely sit with me. She had a gift she just "chose" not to give.
Quit making excuses. If you have young children, quit being lazy and teach them. If they chose to forget it later in life, so be it, their choice. No excuse not to do it in my book: none!
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #22 on Nov 29, 2006, 4:43am »
Piwo's hit the nail on the head!
Be natural and speak your own language - the kids will follow. My two, living in the Warsaw commuter belt, have virtually no contact with English-speaking children apart from their one lesson a week and yet they speak virtually perfect English with only occasional little glitches where Polish has interfered. I have a Polish friend in London who decided not to speak in Polish to her kids, despite the fact her husband was half-Polish (and ashamed of it, but spoke the language fluently). Her kids feel really dumb when they go to Poland and can't talk with their cousins - and their grandparents in Poland have learnt English out of necessity! Mad.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 15,992 Location: Idaho
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #23 on Nov 30, 2006, 10:53am »
Guys, you are right. I should just talk to Ela Polish without trying to find justifications that it is difficult to teach her Polish since we live here....
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,122 Location: Daytona Beach, FL, USA
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #24 on Dec 2, 2006, 8:09am »
It's interesting... when (if) I have kids, I would definately want them to be bilingual - Russian and English. I agree with everyone here - it is something extremely difficult to accomplish, and it is confusing for the kids at the beginning, and they wonder why outside there is one word for something, but inside there's another... But from people I've met with the experience of growing up bilingual, kids eventually learn to balance the two languages very well, and they do reach a point where there is no confusion at all.
Jaga, please keep talking to Ela in Polish, and encourage her to answer back in Polish, too. I don't think it's too late!
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #25 on Dec 2, 2006, 12:36pm »
Eric,
I agree it is confusing at first and then when you go to school it is really confusing. I was raised speaking Polish. When I went to school everything was in English. I failed most of the verbal tests they give you. Then I switched to English only but still heard Polish for 18 years. So now I understand more Polish then I can speak. So I need to study Polish again in a different way.
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 15,992 Location: Idaho
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #26 on Dec 2, 2006, 5:33pm »
Ela is really getting better with Polish. I am not sure she is bilingual but she understand a lot and talks a little Polish also. Eric, Jim thanks for the encouragement!
Jaga PolishSite Nothing is black and white. One country's terrorist is another country freedom fighter. Spy is either a hero or a traitor - depending where.
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #28 on Dec 4, 2006, 7:03am »
Another funny thing is how resilient children are. I'm teaching English to a Polish-American boy, but accent is no problem. I say new words (new to him, that is) my way and he uses them with his own Californian accent. It's amazing what kids don't know sometimes - faucet (tap), sideboard, toilet roll, flight of stairs, parquet and how to spell "drawers" - no, not the things you wear!
Joined: Nov 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,122 Location: Daytona Beach, FL, USA
Re: What would you teach your bilingual kids? « Reply #29 on Dec 5, 2006, 6:18am »
Quote:
Ela is really getting better with Polish. I am not sure she is bilingual but she understand a lot and talks a little Polish also. Eric, Jim thanks for the encouragement!
I was watching "Bolek and Lolek" on Russian TV last night. Such naughty boys!
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You made me feel better about myself. My husband is also afraid that I may confuse Ela but I think that....maybe I lost a chance of her to be really bilingual. It is such a hard question, hard to figure out what is really the best for the child. On the other hand, Ela wants to be just like other kids![[avatar]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jsquaredjcubed/Polskipiwo.jpg "[avatar]")
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