The FDR Legacy in Poland

[gobose]

Please copy and paste this link into your browser (I use Google) and view it. Please study the image carefully.

1.bp.blogspot.com/-TgP3JjSpcCw/TzYIWRUPTDI/AAAAAAAADbg/5lOqhv6Qb-w/s1600/Polish+American+Congress-President+Franklin+D.+Roosevelt-Polish+Map.jpg

That image is from October 11, 1944. (This date is critical)

At this meeting, FDR met with the Polish American Congress (PAC) and assured them that he was 100% for an independent and free Poland. To prove his point he brought in a huge map of Poland clearly showing its pre-war borders intact. He used a "pointer" to emphasize that Poland would not change after the war.

However, During November 28 - December 1, 1943, in Tehran he gave Stalin the eastern border of Poland to what is known as the Curzon line.

FDR's map did not show this line nor did he mention it.

So, FDR, intentionally, wantonly, knowingly, LIED to PAC right in the oval office on that October day in 1944.

Why? Why did he turn his back on Poland in favor of Stalin?

According to Francis Kajencki, and his book: "American Betrayal" Eleanor Roosevelt was a big supporter of the communists and communist groups and causes. She served as the honorary chair for the National Council of American-Soviet Friendship; a known communist front group, and was involved in other such organizations.

She was very pro-Russian, even more so than her husband, FDR.

They both had many known communists spend time at the White House.

Stalin made a fool of FDR at Tehran and Yalta. Knowing FDR's feeble health, he always had him fly half way around the world to meet vs holding sessions in the USA. FDR was too cowardly to object even though the trip to Yalta nearly killed him (literally).

FDR was always anxious to please Stalin, even though his military command, and British intelligence kept him informed about the atrocities being brought upon the Polish people by the Russians.

FDR's legacy on Poland is forcing it into an enslaved subjugation that allowed Germany to become an economic powerhouse while the Poles remain trapped in Eleanor's pathetic communism.

[pieter]

Dec 9, 2012 14:47:27 GMT -7 gobose said:

According to Francis Kajencki, and his book: "American Betrayal" Eleanor Roosevelt was a big supporter of the communists and communist groups and causes. She served as the honorary chair for the National Council of American-Soviet Friendship; a known communist front group, and was involved in other such organizations.

She was very pro-Russian, even more so than her husband, FDR.

They both had many known communists spend time at the White House.

Eleanor Roosevelt



Eleanor Roosevelt, in full Anna Eleanor Roosevelt (born Oct. 11, 1884, New York, N.Y., U.S.—died Nov. 7, 1962, New York City), American first lady (1933–45), the wife of Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd president of the United States, and a United Nations diplomat and humanitarian. She was, in her time, one of the world’s most widely admired and powerful women.

Franklin ran unsuccessfully for vice president on the Democratic ticket in 1920. At this time Eleanor’s interest in politics increased, partly as a result of her decision to help in her husband’s political career after he was stricken with poliomyelitis in 1921 and partly as a result of her desire to work for important causes. She joined the Women’s Trade Union League and became active in the New York state Democratic Party. As a member of the Legislative Affairs Committee of the League of Women Voters, she began studying the Congressional Record and learned to evaluate voting records and debates.

Following the onset of Franklin's polio in 1921, Eleanor began serving as a stand-in for her incapacitated husband, making public appearances on his behalf, often carefully coached by Louis Howe. She also started working with the Women's Trade Union League (WTUL), raising funds in support of the union's goals: a 48-hour work week, minimum wage, and the abolition of child labor. Throughout the 1920s, Eleanor became increasingly influential as a leader in the New York State Democratic Party while Franklin used her contacts among Democratic women to strengthen his standing with them, winning their committed support for the future.

During her 12 years as first lady, the unprecedented breadth of Eleanor’s activities and her advocacy of liberal causes made her nearly as controversial a figure as her husband. She instituted regular White House press conferences for women correspondents, and wire services that had not formerly employed women were forced to do so in order to have a representative present in case important news broke. In deference to the president’s infirmity, she helped serve as his eyes and ears throughout the nation, embarking on extensive tours and reporting to him on conditions, programs, and public opinion. These unusual excursions were the butt of some criticism and “Eleanor jokes” by her opponents, but many people responded warmly to her compassionate interest in their welfare. Beginning in 1936 she wrote a daily syndicated newspaper column, “My Day.” A widely sought-after speaker at political meetings and at various institutions, she showed particular interest in child welfare, housing reform, and equal rights for women and racial minorities.

Active in politics for the rest of her life, Roosevelt chaired the John F. Kennedy administration's ground-breaking committee which helped start second-wave feminism, the Presidential Commission on the Status of Women.

Her anti-fascism may be the cause of accusations of being communist

In both the pre-war and war periods, she especially spoke out in strong language against the tyranny of fascism. She opposed the U.S. neutrality during the Spanish civil war, supporting the Loyalist government (Leftwing Republicans, Social-democrats, socialists, anarchists and communists) against the fascist uprising led by General Francisco Franco. She was a frequent public critic of Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini – and they in turn would attack her in their broadcasts. She also kept a long-view on decisions that would affect post-war life as well, opposing FDR, for example, who supported the construction of temporary housing structures that would be destroyed after their use. The First Lady believed that structures made to last would aid in later public housing needs.

Labor

Eleanor Roosevelt was a strong supporter of labor unions, though she refused to be seen as a foe of industry. Instead, she sought to encourage mediation over striking. As a working newspaper columnist, Eleanor Roosevelt joined the American Newspaper Guild, the first known First Lady to join a labor union. She would be elected, on a write-in vote, as a delegate to the local Industrial Union Council but with the claim that it was dominated by communist interests, she declined and privately urged the guild to disassociate with the council.

www.firstladies.org/biographies/firstladies.aspx?biography=33
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Roosevelt
www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/509257/Eleanor-Roosevelt

[pieter]

The Betrayal of Poland 1939-1945


Yalta summit 1945 with Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin

by Patrick J. Buchanan – August 29, 1997

With Poland’s membership in NATO at issue, a question has arisen as to whether America owes a debt to the Polish people for Franklin D. Roosevelt’s having “betrayed” the Polish nation to Joseph Stalin at Yalta.

Undersecretary of State Stuart Eizenstat has lately raised the issue of a moral debt to Poland for the 1945 summit where FDR accepted Stalin’s assurances of free elections. Eizenstat was taken to task by columnist Lars-Erik Nelson for repeating a “50-year-old right-wing slander.” Robert Novak defended the “betrayed” thesis.

Nelson’s point: By 1945 Stalin had 12 million troops in Eastern Europe, and Dwight Eisenhower only 4 million in the West. Conservatives who condemn FDR for Poland’s fate, says Nelson, are joining the “Blame America First” crowd. We couldn’t save Poland!

But, in truth, Yalta was only the final betrayal of Poland, and not only FDR but Winston Churchill bears moral responsibility for a half-century of communist enslavement of the Polish people.

The first betrayal came with the British guarantee to Poland, after Neville Chamberlain was exposed as a dupe when Adolf Hitler tore up his Munich pact and marched into Prague. As Hitler pressed Poland for the return of Danzig, stripped from Germany after World War I, and demanded rail and road transit to the city across a “Polish Corridor” also taken from Germany, Warsaw, encouraged by British Foreign Secretary Lord Halifax, refused even to negotiate. The Poles were assured that if war came, Britain would be at their side.

But when Hitler invaded Poland from the west and Stalin invaded from the east, Britain declared war on Germany alone. Then, the British sat behind the Maginot Line while Poland was crucified. The British had goaded the Poles into standing up to Hitler though they had no plans to save or rescue Poland. Six million Poles would die as a result of having trusted in a British alliance.

The second betrayal occurred at Teheran in 1943, when FDR moved into the Soviet embassy compound and assured Stalin he would not object to his keeping the half of Poland and the Baltic states Hitler had ceded to Stalin in their infamous pact. As Robert Nisbet wrote in “Roosevelt and Stalin: The Failed Courtship,” FDR asked only that word of his concession not leak out before the 1944 elections, so Polish Americans would not react in rage. FDR told one visitor to Hyde Park he was “sick and tired” of East Europeans and their constant clamoring about boundaries and sovereignties.

The third betrayal occurred in the summer of ’44. The Polish Home Army in German-occupied Warsaw, heeding appeals from Radio Moscow, rose up against the Nazis. As the Home Army was loyal to the free Polish government in London, which was demanding an investigation of Stalin’s murder of Polish officers at Katyn, Stalin halted his own Red Army outside Warsaw to give the Nazis a free hand in crushing the Polish uprising.

British and Americans sought to aid the Poles with air drops of food and munitions. But Stalin refused to let the allies use air fields behind his lines to refuel for the return flight to England. Churchill drafted a strong letter to Stalin, asking that the allies be allowed to use the air fields assigned them, but to appease Stalin, FDR cravenly refused to sign the letter. The Home Army was butchered.

By February 1945, Poland had been overrun by a Red Army that could not be dislodged short of a new war. Yalta, writes Nisbet, “is not the source of the Soviet possessions in Eastern Europe … Teheran is. But Yalta performed a service that was almost as important to Stalin. … This was the invaluable service of giving moral legitimation to what Stalin had acquired by sheer force.”

Britain had gone to war and lost 400,000 men and an empire for Poland’s independence. Yet, as Poland receded into the darkness, not once did Churchill vent upon Stalin the oratory he used so often on Hitler. The rape of Poland by Hitler and Stalin was the moral cause that precipitated the war. Yet, Churchill and FDR, to appease Stalin, meekly acquiesced in the betrayal of that moral cause.

“Of one thing I am sure,” FDR said at Yalta, “Stalin is not an imperialist.” How explain his naivete about Stalin, to whom he gave everything, including a third of the Italian fleet and recognition of his puppet government in Poland? “Puerility,” writes George F. Kennan. FDR once told his friend, ambassador William Bullitt: “I think if I give him (Stalin) everything I possibly can, and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won’t try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of peace and democracy.”

And thus was Poland betrayed.

Often I think with sadness in my heart that all those Polish soldiers, pilots and tank crews died, got wounded or fought and survived for nothing, because the Western nations they fought for did not recognize their important achievements ( I name two of these nations: Great Britain and the Netherlands) and their ultimate goal, a free, democratic and independent Poland wasn't realized. Ofcourse they fought not for nothing, because the Dutch, Belgian, French and other European citizens did not forgot the achievement of these courageous soldiers, officers, pilots, tank commanders and drivers and etc. They were the toughest fighters, good soldiers, officers, generals and pilots. The Polish pilots were the best pilots of the RAF (together with some Czechs and ofcourse Brits and Yankees).
In the same time these soldiers, officers, pilots and generals could not return to Poland. Those who did were arrested, interrogated, humiliated, terrorized, tortured and in many cases killed by the Stalinist Poles and Stalinist Russians of the Służba Bezpieczeństwa (SB) and the NKVD. Many of the 200.000 Poles that fought in Western-Europe and who were stationed in Great-Britain could never return to Poland, and thus did not see their wives, children and family anymore. They were forced to live in the UK, the USA, the Netherlands and other Western countries, missing their country, which was stolen from them by the Stalinist Poles and their Russian and Ukrainian Sovjet allies.

The "Western" Polish soldiers and officers ofcourse shared the same fate the soldiers and officers, the non-communist resistance fighters of the Armia Krajowa faced in Poland and the SovjetUnion. (Those who were transfered to Moscow to the NKVD (KGB) Lubyanka prison.


Lubyanka building and prison, headquarters of the Sovjet secret service NKVD/KGB. After the dissolution of the KGB, the Lubyanka became the headquarters of the Border Guard Service of Russia, and houses the Lubyanka prison and one directorate of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB). In addition a museum of the KGB (now called Историко-демонстрационный зал ФСБ России, Historical-demonstration hall of the Russian FSB) was opened to the public.

Link:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdrada_jałtańska

P.S.- Surprisingly the link of the Western-bertrayal is very short in Polish.

[gobose]

Thank you pieter.

That's why I remain perplexed to this day by how Polish-Americans pay homage to FDR and recently, Obama.

History shows that Reagan and Bush Sr & Jr were the biggest suporters of Poland while Clinton and Obama (especially Obama) has once again acquiesced to the Russian invaders will over that of Poland. Just like their week-kneed, hero, FDR.

"Adding insult to injury, it was revealed that Obama had pulled the plug on the interceptors on Sept. 17, 2009, the 70th anniversary of the Soviet Union's invasion of Poland. At the time, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk noted bitterly that "I can only have the satisfaction of being the first prime minister over the past 15 years who isn't so enchanted with our ally."

Yet Poles in the USA practically have an orgasm whenever they hear that guys name.

[pieter]

Gobose,

Maybe the fact that many Polish Americans voted Democratic was the fact that a lot of them were workers, and if I am correctly the liberal Democrats are comparable to the European Social democrats (socialists), who defend the workers interests. I always thought that Labour in Europe was the Democratic Party in the USA. But some political analysts in Europe say you can't compare Social-democratic parties and Unions in Europe with the liberals and Democrats in the USA, because the American politics is more centric and pragmatic. In the same time I know, and that is quite confusing for us Europeans, is the fact that you have a conservative, rightwing of Democrats of the South and some more conservative Roman Catholic and Protestant democrats in the North, West and South.

The New Deal and After

Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal program would unite the different party factions for over three decades, since Southerners, like Northern urban populations, were hit particularly hard and generally benefited from the massive governmental relief program. It was the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s that finally put an end to this coalition of interests.
The passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was the event that finally moved the majority of Southern states to the Republican Party. From the end of the Civil War to 1960 Democrats had solid control over the southern states in presidential elections, hence the term "Solid South" to describe the states' Democratic preference. After the passage of this act however their support on a presidential level shifted to the Republicans. Republican candidate Barry Goldwater won many of the "Solid South" states over Democratic candidate Lyndon Johnson in 1964, and this Republican support for those states continues to this day. It was also bolstered in the next two elections by the "Southern Strategy" of Richard Nixon.
Southern Democrats still did and do see much support on the local level however, and many of them are not nearly as liberal as the Democratic party as a whole. As an example, the state upper and lower houses in the states of Arkansas still has Democratic majorities.
Chapman notes a split vote among many conservative Southern Democrats in the 1970s and 1980s who supported local and statewide conservative Democrats while simultaneously voting for Republican presidential candidates.

Polish Americans

The Polish community was long the subject of anti-Polish sentiment in America. The word, Polack, has become a racial slur. Much of this prejudice was associated with anti-Catholicism and early 20th century worries, about being overrun by Eastern European immigrants. The White Anglo Saxon Protestant (WASP) Americans of English and Scottish decent (the earliest European American settlers) didn't like Roman-Catholics, Jews and Eastern-Orthodox, Central- and Eastern-European immigrants from Slav countries in particular. The countries elite, culture and economy was dominated by Protestants.

Historically, Polish-Americans have assimilated very quickly to American society. Between 1940 and 1960, only 20 percent of the children of Polish-American ethnic leaders spoke Polish regularly, compared to 50 percent for Ukrainians. In the early 1960s, 3,000 of Detroit's 300,000 Polish-Americans changed their names each year. Language proficiency in Polish is rare in Polish-Americans, as 91.3% speak "English only". In 1979, the 8 million respondents of Polish ancestry reported that only 41.5 percent had single ancestry, whereas 57.3% of Greeks, 52% of Italians and Sicilians, and 44% of Ukrainians had done so. Polish-Americans tended to marry within the Catholic population, often to persons of German (17%) (Jaga ;D), Italian (10%) (My Polish-American cousin from Milwaukee), East European (8%), Irish (5%), French-Canadian (4%), Spanish-speaking (2%), Lithuanian (2%), and English (1%) ancestry. Poles cultural ties to Roman Catholicism has also influenced the adoption of such distinctive rites like the blessing of the baskets before Easter in many areas of the United States by fellow Roman Catholics.

Polish-American vote

Polish-Americans in the United States comprise a voting bloc sought after by both the Democratic and Republican parties. Polish Americans comprise 3.2% of the United States population, but were estimated at nearly 10% of the overall electorate[disambiguation needed] as of 2012. The Polish-American population is concentrated in several swing states that make issues important to Polish-Americans more likely to be heard by presidential candidates. According to John Kromkowski, a Catholic University professor of political science, Polish-Americans make up an "almost archetypical swing vote". The Piast Institute found that Polish Americans are 36.5% Democrats, 33.2% Independents, and 26.1% are Republicans as of 2008. Ideologically, they were categorized as being in the more conservative wing of the Democratic Party, and demonstrated a much stronger inclination for third party candidates in presidential elections than the American public.

Historically, Polish-American voters have swung from the Democratic and Republican parties depending on economic and social politics. In the 1918 election, Woodrow Wilson courted Poles through his promises of Polish autonomy. Upon his death and the failures of the proposed League of Nations, Polish-Americans shifted Republican, voting for Warren Harding, Calvin Coolidge, and Herbert Hoover because of their frustration with Wilson and the weakness of the nascent Polish state. The Democratic Party won over Polonia during the New Deal Coalition forged by President Franklin D. Roosevelt, and gained strong support for the war effort by Polish-Americans who were fiercely against Nazi Germany. FDR consistently won over 90% of the Polish vote during his four terms. Polish-Americans founded the Polish American Congress (PAC) in 1944 to create strong leadership and represent Polish interests during World War II. FDR met with the PAC and assured Poles of a peaceful and independent Poland following the war. When this did not come to fruition, and with the publication of Arthur Bliss Lane's I Saw Poland Betrayed in 1947, Polish-Americans came to feel that they had been betrayed by the United States government and the Democratic Party. John F. Kennedy won a majority of the Polish vote in 1960, owing in part to his Catholicism and connection to ethnic communities and the labor movement(since a lot of Polish Americans were part of the working class). Since then, Polish voters have been tied to the more conservative wing of the Democratic Party, but shifted away from the Democrats over social issues such as abortion. Poland's liberation from Soviet occupation during the 1980s was championed to Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, but Bill Clinton seized Polish voters through his expansion of NATO. The relevance of the "Polish-American vote" has been in question in recent elections, as Americans of Polish descent[disambiguation needed] have assimilated to U.S. society and increased their rate of exogamous marriages.
In modern politics, the Polish-American vote continues to have influence in the United States. The American Polish Advisory Council, a politically-involved network of Polish organizations, has created a political platform and convention, and has shared its agenda with politicians, both at the state and federal level. In the 2012 elections, Polish-Americans have been courted by both the Republican and Democratic parties.

[pieter]

Antipolonism


German warning in occupied Poland 1939 - "No entrance for Poles!"

Anti-Polish sentiment, Polonophobia, anti-Polonism or antipolonism exists in Europe (outside Poland), in the USA and in Israel (eventhough that there are Polish jews who immigrated, but stil are homesick for Poland). Anti-Polonism existed and exist mostly in Protestant-christian and jewish circles but in some cases also by non-Polish Roman-catholics of other ethnic backgrounds (in Austria, Germany, Ireland and probably France, Spain and Italy).


Anti-Polish political add from the far right German NPD


Sign in Germany, prohibiting overnight stays in cars in a public parking lot - note that the sign is only in Polish. However, the font differs from that on official signs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_Polonism
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antypolonizm





My Polish American niece told me when she visited Amsterdam that she witnessed anti-semitic statements spoken by Polish Americans. She was young and did not understand their opinions. Her mother, very Roman-Catholic (very biblical christian) told me that that were views of an older generation. I wondered (with my limited knowledge of Polish Americans and Polonia in the USA) if that had to do with mutual tensions between Polish-Americans and Jewish-Americans in the USA, tensions between Roman-Catholic Poles (the majority) and Jewish Poles before the Second World war, and tensions between jews in Europe (outside Poland) and Polish diaspora in general, and misconceptions in Israel and Poland about Poland and Israel and the Polish and Israeli/jewish history? Fierce anti-polonism of some American Jews, European jews and Israeli jews can be as bad as some of the anti-semitism of Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, German and Muslim anti-semites.

[gobose]

Anti-semitic statements.

So how does a Pole categorize Polish jokes?

Are they not bigoted statements?

And what is the societal repurcussions from the Polish community on one who is bigoted towards a Pole?

The answer: Nothing! Poles say nothing; so they remain a pinata

Regarding Democrat vs Republican.

That is one of low expectations by the Poles about themselves in the USA.

They are simple workers, and therefore, need papa Obama to protect them from those mean Capitalists.

They have no expectations of becoming successful, and therefore, given their socialst backgrounds
in Poland, pay homage to a socialist president.

Low expectations.

The Republicans have proven to be faithful supporters of Poland, while the Democrats have proven to be faithful supporters of Russia. That's from FDR through Obama.

Russia has never experienced communism; only socialism. And their extreme level of socialism is viewed by many prominent Democrats as the ultimate goal for their agenda in the USA. Right now, they're pushing for a socialist doctrine like that of Hollande in France.

Obama loves Hollande, and his extreme form of socialism. It's not quite Stalin, but according to the Dem's, a definite step in the right direction.

[pieter]

Gobose,

Due to your anger, frustration and irritation about the attitude of the Polish Americans I want to ask you a honest question. Is there such thing as Polish selfhatred amongs the Polish Americans. Did the Polak jokes, discrimination, anti-polonism harm the Polish ethnic self confidence of the Polish-Americans? How is it possible that this relatively succesful American ethnic group of people would not vote or take care of their own interests properly?

What do you think about the person of Zbigniew Brzezinski?

I once heard a Pole from Germany, who was very active with Polonia and the Polish diaspora world wide saying, we could learn from the jewish diaspora, they are very well organised. Is that true?
Why do I hear so little about Polish Americans and Polish achievements in the West-European and American press? For decades I have witnessed my mothers (she is of Polish descent) irritation about the portrayal of Poland and the Poles by the Dutch media (Television, newspapers and magazines), but it is impossible to change a country when you are a tiny minority and when the Poles themselves do little about informing other Europeans about their country, via embassies, Polish communities abroad and etc. My mother was the only Polish person in the town where I grew up that I knew. Okay there was an old Polish lady and Polish mass, but we had no contact with these people. I couldn't speak Polish and it was if they lived in a differant diaspora community world. We were part of the Dutch society and raised Dutch, like Polish-Americans are raised English-American.

Cheers,
Pieter

[Jaga]

Goboze,

life is not that easy and simple as you make it. Not everything is black and white. Do you receive Social secirity and medicare? Did you go to the public school? I think you did go to the public school since you wrote about what you experienced. What public services you want to eliminate? Road infrastructure repairs, education, social security, medicare?

it seems that everything which clings "Democrat" for you is bad and everything "Republican" is good.
Yes, Polish president pres. Kwasniewski, by the way, former communist, was welcomed in DC by pres. Bush with the dinner..... still, I do not understand why pres. Bush was in any ways more friendly that pres. Obama.
Could you please, list why pres. Bush legacy is good for Poland?

[Jaga]

Pieter,

thanks for posting the photo of famous Lubyanka. I have heard a lot about it but I did not really know how it looked.....

[gobose]

Dec 11, 2012 18:06:04 GMT -7 pieter said:

Gobose,

Due to your anger, frustration and irritation about the attitude of the Polish Americans I want to ask you a honest question. Is there such thing as Polish selfhatred amongs the Polish Americans. Did the Polak jokes, discrimination, anti-polonism harm the Polish ethnic self confidence of the Polish-Americans? How is it possible that this relatively succesful American ethnic group of people would not vote or take care of their own interests properly?

Cheers,
Pieter

There is no question that Polack jokes hurt the psyche of Polish-Americans. It was a rampant bigotry that took place in the 1950's through the early 1980's.

The Jewish comedians were very open about their bigotry and profited off of it in their comedy acts.

The movie "Flash Dance" was loaded with Polack jokes and "meathead" of "All in the Family" added to this inner sense of low expectations.

The Polish vote, is very much like the Catholic vote. Does it exist? Nobody knows, because there are never any statements nor positions taken that equate to voter unity.

The Poles were openly discriminated against in applying to law and medical schools. The Jews held many of the prominent positions in these universities and they openly kept Poles out.

Poles hide their identities in the USA by changing their last names and denouncing their Polish heritage. That is the definition of self-hate and self-loathing. They all of a sudden, become Austrian, or Czech, but not Polish!

Zbigniew Brzezinski cuts both ways with me. Too much of a pacifist under Carter relative to Russian abuse but became firmer while working ofr Reagan/Bush. But he did very little to promote Polish accompilshments and never spoke of FDRs betrayal.

[gobose]

administrationr=admin board=generalpoland thread=14104 post=77632 time=1355293096]Goboze,

it seems that everything which clings "Democrat" for you is bad and everything "Republican" is good.
Yes, Polish president pres. Kwasniewski, by the way, former communist, was welcomed in DC by pres. Bush with the dinner..... still, I do not understand why pres. Bush was in any ways more friendly that pres. Obama.
Could you please, list why pres. Bush legacy is good for Poland?

[/quote]

I'm afraid I could say the same of you, but in reverse, relative to Dem's vs GOP.

The Dem's are big supporters of socialist forms of government, with Stalin's extreme form, being an ultimate goal of theirs. I am diametrically opposed to socialism given its birth in Marxism, Hitler's Nazi Party, and Stalin. It is a brutal, self serving and self -perpetuating form of repression.

Hitler governed as a socialist, and FDR's "New Deal" was fashioned after Hitler's programs into the very early 1930's. Hitler's call to arms (with shovels; not weapons) and putting millions of Germans to work building infrastructure is the EXACT model later used by FDR.

So I have no interest in even approaching the levels of socialism that the Dem's propose, or are in the process of forcing on people today.

View this short video:



That's why I will NOT get close to the philosophy of the Democrat's.

Regarding Bush on Poland. Let me first emphasize that Obama is clearly using the same model as FDR. That of appeasement towards Russia over Polish concerns and Independence.

A week earlier, Romney accused Mr. Obama of abandoning Poland and the Czech Republic through its policy of appeasement toward Russia and scrapping Bush-era plans to set up an anti-ballistic missile system on Polish and Czech soil.

“Missile defenses were sacrificed as a unilateral concession to the Russian government,” Romney told an audience composed of members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

In Poland, many found the US administration’s decision unintelligible, according to local observers.

“There was a strong feeling of disappointment among Poles after Washington decided to cancel the missile defense system scheme,” says Konrad Ozdowy, online entrepreneur and event organizer. “First, we were told this project would increase our security, and then the plans were tabled. Poles are now more cautious toward proposals put forward by US politicians.”

“The general impression here is that America’s interest in Eastern Europe has steadily decreased and shifted toward other regions,” says Mr. Jablonowski. “History is a matter of great importance in Poland, and some Poles were offended by President Obama's remark.”

In late 2010, WikiLeaks released U.S. State Department cables revealing that Obama had scrapped a Bush-era plan to station missile defense systems in Poland to intercept Iranian missiles in hopes of securing Russia's support for sanctions against Iran. The cables confirmed Poland's worst suspicions and contradicted the administration's denials that the change in plans was prompted by concerns about Russia.

"The words uttered yesterday by the President of the United States Barack Obama concerning 'Polish death camps' touched all Poles," Tusk said.

"We always react in the same way when ignorance, lack of knowledge, bad intentions lead to such a distortion of history, so painful for us here in Poland, in a country which suffered like no other in Europe during World War II, the prime minister said.

For his part, Obama took a pass on directly commenting on his misstatement during two public appearances Wednesday, including a Jewish American Heritage Month reception at the White House.


I 100% agree with these paragraphs.

And Obama INTENTIONALLY rescinded Bush's missile plan on the 70th anniversary of Russia enslaving Poland.

That is not by accident. Neither was "Polish Death Camps" by accident.

They are both clear statements by Obama, that Russian and Jewish appeasement is first, and foremost, his policy with regards to Poland.

Regarding Bush:

The "You forgot Poland" from 2004 were satirical references to George W. Bush's unanticipated retort to John Kerry during the 2004 Presidential Electoral Debate.

John Kerry had omitted Poland as a member of the coalition participating on the War on Terror (whether or not this was intentional is debated) and Bush took it upon himself to enlighten Kerry

The Dem's (Far Left) went on to many jokes about Bush and his reference to Poland. I am sure you were one of them.

But that fact is, Kerry DID NOT forget Poland but was simply nodding to Russia that the Dem's long standing policy of Russian appeasement as #1 would remain.


U.S. Department of State

Posted on June 11, 2007 by editor


On June 8 in Gdansk, Poland, President George Bush praised Poland’s support for hosting elements of a missile defense system that would protect Europe and the United States against a ballistic missile attack from the Middle East. “I appreciate the support of the deployment of the missile defense interceptors here in Poland.” President Bush also addressed the concerns of several European countries which feared that they would not be covered by the proposed shield. “We will negotiate a fair agreement that enhances the security of Poland, and the security of the entire continent against rogue regimes that might be willing to try to blackmail free nations.” Both Polish President Lech Kaczynski and President Bush reiterated the defensive nature of the system

I 100% agree with this paragraph. Putin told Obama to stop it; and he did! Weak-kneed.

Remarks by the President to the People of Poland
Wawel Royal Castle
Krakow, Poland

In Warsaw two years ago, I affirmed the commitment of my country to a united Europe, bound to America by close ties of history, of commerce and of friendship. I said that Europe must finally overturn the bitter legacy of Yalta and remove the false boundaries and spheres of influence that divided this continent for too long

I 100% agree with this GW Bush and his paragraph. Obama 100% disagrees. You choose.

In order to win the war on terror, our alliances must be strong. (Applause.) Poland and America are proud members of NATO, and NATO must be prepared to meet the challenges of our time. This is a matter of capability and a matter of will. Our common security requires European governments to invest in modern military capabilities, so our forces can move quickly with a precision that can strike the guilty and spare the innocent.

I 100% agree, while Obama disagrees, and thinks, like FDR, that he can appease Russia into submission. You choose.

With Mr. Tusk at his side, Mr. Bush said that, "before my watch is over," America and Poland would "come up with a modernization plan" for Polish forces, which are seeking to acquire a Patriot anti-missile system. Mr. Bush's aides insisted that Poland's diminished objections to the American deployment of missile interceptors on Polish territory was not a quid pro quo for military aid. However, the president linked the two, pledging the modernization assistance, and then saying, "along those lines," that he and Tusk discussed the risk posed by "a missile with dangerous materials in its warhead."

The proposed missile-defense network has become perhaps the most sensitive issue in American-Russian relations. President Putin has denounced it as a threat to his nation's defense.

I 100% agreed with Bush's position on Poland. Obama sided with Putin, just as FDR had sided with Stalin. Do you think there is a realistict possibility of appeasement with Putin? Obama does. You choose.

Bush announces new US military aid for Poland
US President George W. Bush Tuesday announced a 66-million-dollar package of military aid for Poland, a key US ally in Iraq. Speaking to reporters during a White House meeting with visiting Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski, Bush said the extra money for Poland is included in the 2005 budget request he will send to Congress next week. "In my '05 budget request, there is a 66-million-dollar request to help the Polish military, particularly with airlift capacity, such as C-130 aircraft," he said. "The Polish army is a sophisticated, fine group of soldiers. And one area where Poland needs some help is the capacity to move those soldiers and we look forward to helping the government do thathat," Bush added.

I 100% agree with the US assisting Poland with it military defense forces. Obama 100% disagrees. Poland MUST be ready for next time. Obama doesn't think so. You choose.

Reagan/Bush achieve Polish freedom.

``It's rather strange,'' Mr. Onyszkiewicz said, ``if you take into account that only a year ago I was in prison.''

``Something new is happening here in Poland when we all assemble here together,'' added Mr. Geremek. ``It's in moments like this that we think of the American founding fathers.''

On the street level, the visit also managed to infuse people with a sense of pride. Neither the hot, humid weather, vacation time, or political apathy seemed to prevent a large turnout. Thousands more Poles came out to Bush's public appearances than for recent visits by other leaders such as British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, French President Franc,ois Mitterrand, or even Mikhail Gorbachev a year ago.

In an impoverished country that still feels suppressed by the Soviet Union, the US still represents `the promised land,' and pro-Americanism runs high.

Millions of relatives in the US provide living proof of the ``new world's'' prosperity. Ordinary Poles didn't care as much about the details of official financial aid as the leaders. They simply rejoiced in American values.

``I thank the Lord that I finally can show my sympathy for democracy - and the US,'' said a beaming Krzyzstof Wojciechowski as Bush's motorcade passed. ``We didn't just want dollars, we also wanted moral support.''

The Republicans stand firm with their allies. The Democrats (in true FDR fashion) will throw any weaker ally under the bus in order to appease Russia.

Obama is such a guy.

[gobose]

Dec 11, 2012 23:18:16 GMT -7 Jaga said:

Goboze,

life is not that easy and simple as you make it. Not everything is black and white. Do you receive Social security and medicare? Did you go to the public school? I think you did go to the public school since you wrote about what you experienced. What public services you want to eliminate? Road infrastructure repairs, education, social security, medicare?

I would like to state that everything I own is the result of the greatest system of economic policy that has ever existed. That of capitalism.

My health care, house, cars, boat, furnishings, etc are all the result of corporations able to compete on the worlds stage.

The government has only provided me with national security for which I am extremely grateful. Thank God the Republicans built the most efficient governmental body within our federal system.

But I'm no different from Obama, and the Democrats, for they are also 100% dependent on capitalism for their well being.

"Save the whale", "Save the spotted owl", "Save the planet", etc., are luxury efforts that came about because of the luxury that capitalism provides.

You won't find this nonsense in 3rd world countries that are controlled by NGOs; as they are too poor, and the NGOs too wealthy, to allow them such esoteric BS.

What would you think if you learned that Exxon or IBM or Apple pays out 50% of its sales revenue in salaries? To make matters worse, lets say that their revenue is "tax free". What names would you be calling them?.

Now, what would you be saying if I told you that there is a major firm with over $2 billion in annual tax free revenue that does pay 50% of it in salaries?

Who? The Red Cross!

Leaching off of the capitalist system that endows them with billions of USDs.

You mentioned infrastructure. Now that's a real joke when it comes to Obama. Go to the Federal budget and see how much he deficit spent on infrastructure since becoming president. Next to nothing.
He plays that little word whenever he seeking even more money to spend.

[gobose]

Dec 11, 2012 23:18:16 GMT -7 Jaga said:

Goboze,

life is not that easy and simple as you make it. Not everything is black and white. Do you receive Social secirity and medicare? Did you go to the public school? I think you did go to the public school since you wrote about what you experienced. What public services you want to eliminate? Road infrastructure repairs, education, social security, medicare?

I would like to state that everything I own is the result of the greatest system of economic policy that has ever existed. That of capitalism.

My health care, house, cars, boat, furnishings, etc are all the result of corporations able to compete on the worlds stage.

The government has only provided me with national security for which I am extremely grateful. Thank God the Republicans built the most efficient governmental body within our federal system.

But I'm no different from Obama, and the Democrats, for they are also 100% dependent on capitalism for their well being.

"Save the whale", "Save the spotted owl", "Save the planet", etc., are luxury efforts that came about because of the luxury that capitalism provides.

You won't find this nonsense in 3rd world countries that are controlled by NGOs; as they are too poor, and the NGOs too wealthy, to allow them such esoteric BS.

What would you think if you learned that Exxon or IBM or Apple pays out 50% of its sales revenue in salaries? To make matters worse, lets say that their revenue is "tax free". What names would you be calling them?.

Now, what would you be saying if I told you that there is a major firm with over $2 billion in annual tax free revenue that does pay 50% of it in salaries?

Who? The Red Cross!

Leaching off of the capitalist system that endows them with billions of USDs.

You mentioned infrastructure. Now that's a real joke when it comes to Obama. Go to the Federal budget and see how much he deficit spent on infrastructure since becoming president. Next to nothing.
He plays that little word whenever he seeking even more money to spend.

[Eric]

Gobose:

Do you think you can be at least a little respectful and understand that others have the right to hold political and economic views that are different from yours?