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Post by pieter on Dec 12, 2014 7:49:58 GMT -7
Polish movie gets Golden Globe nominationPolish drama Ida, directed by Paweł Pawlikowski has been nominated for the 2015 Golden Globe Awards in the foreign film category. It will compete with Force Majeure ( Sweden), Gett: The Trial of Viviane Amsalem ( France), Leviathan ( Russia) and Tangerines ( Estonia). The movie tells a story of Anna, a young nun, who before taking her vows finds out that her real name is Ida Lebenstein and her Jewish parents were killed during the World War II. She decides to find their resting place. The movie has already won a FIPRESCI Special Presentations award at the Toronto International Film Festival and has been selected as the Polish entry for the Best Foreign Language Film category at the Academy Awards.
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Post by pieter on Dec 12, 2014 7:59:43 GMT -7
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Post by Jaga on Dec 18, 2014 0:37:18 GMT -7
Pieter and all,
did you have a chance to watch the whole movie? I am still worried that this movie is done just because the subject is popular and it enhances rather the stereotypes then teaches about anything new.
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Post by pieter on Dec 18, 2014 3:42:24 GMT -7
Dear Jaga, I haven't seen the movie yet. I hope it will be aired in the Dutch aurthouse cinema's in the Netherlands. From the images I saw from the trailer it looks well done. In understand your concern about the possible cliché portrayal of Polish-Jewish relations and fear of an ' old stereotype' of the Roman-Catholic church in general and Polish Roman-Catholics in particular. It was funny that in the Netherlands a writer and journalist of Polish-Jewish orgin turned himself against that cliché. He wrote books about ' Poland' and ' the Polish jewwish relationship' from an objective, historical point of view. Fairly neutral for a Dutch jew of Polish origin. But he was raised ' Polonist', by his Polish Jewish mother, while most jews of that time in Poland were raised in the West-Germanic language Yiddish. The guy I am speaking about is Milo Anstadt. He stayed connected to Poland until his death, he had many Polish friends and translated Polish texts into Dutch for Polish friends, connections and authorities. pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Anstadten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_AnstadtI don't know why I mention him. Probably, because my mother turned to him several times druing the eighties when Poland received unforair reports or was portrayed in a stereotypical way in the Dutch press/media. He always defended Polish interests, but was also critical of Poland. He was an oponent of the Communist regime and supported Solidarność as a Dutch journalist and Social-democrat. Cheers, Pieter
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Post by Jaga on Dec 18, 2014 9:18:41 GMT -7
Pieter,
it is interesting what you wrote. I need to check and find more about Milo Anstadt. I like the word cliché.... unfortunately movies are often done for the audience to cement the stereotypes. So, I guess, this movie has nothing else except good girl finding her Jewish roots and learning how heroic her family was and how they died probably in Auschwitz.
In the US there is a big discussion about anti-North Korean movie and the threats against it. I did not realize, that Sony, Japanese company, is in movie business now. From what I have heard the movie is pretty stupid, still FoxNews (anti-Obama TV station) tries to claim that this is all fault of the government and they should be able to protect all movie theatres 100% of the time. So they use twisted logic.
Of course, North Korea is bad guy, and people who made the movie are heroes.
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Post by Jaga on Jan 4, 2015 1:05:14 GMT -7
Pieter, I watched the movie "Ida" tonight. I still believe that it was done in very stereotypical way to show Poland the way the mass public or rather the critics see Poland - as a country deeply catholic that was persecuting Jews.... The movie just deepens this stereotype...... Ida learns that she is Jewish when she visits her aunt who smokes, drunks and prostitutes herself, after being a communistic persecutor. Somehow Ida's parents and brothers are killed by Polish farmer who apparently hides them and then kills them, no reason given, no Germans involved.....Ida survives since she is a redhead and the peasant gives her to the priest and then she is raised as an orphan in the monastery. Ida goes back to the monastery after taking the bones of her family to the family grave in Lublin (after women agree that they would not appeal for property and home which was taken by these bad Polish farmers), but she is not ready to take vows, her aunt commit suicide, Ida comes back, spends night with handsome boy who she met before as a part of music rock group. Somehow he is present at the communistic funeral of her aunt. He seems to be a nice and decent guy and he even thinks about marrying her but she decided to go back to the monastery. The movie is a typical stereotype and it has little common sense, but it will appeal to certain important public and it has a real charm.The charm includes: 1) interesting black and white images (but it would be interesting if they tried to add some color or tint, for instance red hair color of Ida) like they do it some artistic movies 2) camera pictures are almost static - long scenes, very carefully taken, simple background, artistic. 3) very carefully depicted scenes of Polish cities and villages of 60s, with the best Polish rock music from this time. 4) Lots of visual scenes, the script is very brief. The way they did the movie is interesting from artistic point of view, but I cannot see any educational value. from www.rogerebert.com/reviews/ida-2014Few recent films can claim a visual approach as striking as that which cinematographers Lukasz Zal and Ryszard Lenczewski give "Ida." Filmed in the unusual, boxy aspect ratio of 1.37:1, and most often deployed in static long shots, the film’s images sometimes suggest Vermeer lighting with the color taken away, and the compositions manage to seem at once classical and off-handed, with the subjects often located in the screen’s two bottom quadrants. As in Bresson, the effect is to draw the viewer’s eye into the beauty of the image while simultaneously maintaining a contemplative distance from the drama.
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Post by pieter on Jan 4, 2015 11:24:49 GMT -7
Jaga, Great review and I agree with you without having seen the movie, but with experience in seeing a lot of similar movies. But nor the same movie. I have seen a whole lot of Second World War movies and movies about First generation and second generation victims, both jewish and non-jewish victims of the war. In every European nation you had ' good' (honest, brave, ethical, helping), ' bad' (traitor, opportunistic -gaining money or influence at the expense of victims and the oppressed) and just ' indiffetent', ' non involved' or ' neutral people' (Switzerland and thus the Swiss people for instance). The war was a time of hardship, survival and thus s struggle for life for the non-Germans and non-Austrians in most parts of Europe. Things like in the movie Ida happened in Poland and other countries in Europe. The problem is that this image is an image of Poles and Poland during the war in the eyes of many non-Polish Europeans, Americans and Israeli's. The image of the vicious, primitive, greedy and Roman-Catholic peasent. I say things like this story happened, but in many other occasions Polish farmers saved the lives of Polish jews, resistance fighters and other people who had to escape the Gestapo, Sicherheitsdienst, German police ( Orpo), Wehrmacht or Waffen SS. It is a bad thing that only the negative stereotype exist in many European and American intellectual circles and people of the anti-semitic Pole ' who was fed anti-semitism with the milk of the mothers breast.' The idea of Poland as the center of anti-semitism in the world, without puting things into perpective and the role and existance of anti-semitism in Europe in general. Think about France, Austria, Germany, Hungary, Spain, Rumania, Ukraine, Russia and the Baltic states and even the USA. Anti-semitism was there before the Nazi's came to power and gained political influence in Europe. The main Zionist thinker Theodor Herzl wrote his novel Der Judenstaat ( The Jewish State) and became a zionist, because of the anti-semitism he experianced in Paris in France during ' the Dreyfus affair'. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion came from Russia. The most vicious progroms against jews during the Czarist Empire and the Russian civil war between Reds and Whites took place in Ukraine and Russia. Lithuanians, Estonians and Latvians behaved very badly against the jews in their countries. Pogroms in Poland during the second world war were isolated cases like Jadwebne, not nation wide like in Ukraine and Lithuania. You had some far right, fascistoid, elements in the Polish resistance. Fighting against the nazi's, but in the same time delivering local jews to the enemy. But they were a minority. The Second World War is not a simple black and white phenomenon. It was a conflict with black, white, grey (shadow) and colors. There are many sides to it. Afterwards people look at it in simplistic, easy viewpoints and personal opinions which are black and white. In the communist world it was a simple conflict between fascists ( bad guys) and anti-fascists ( good guys). Many people in the West looked at it in the same way. And these so called Polish anti-semitic peasents were simply seen as fascists. I wonder if I have to see this Polish movie?Cheers, Pieter Links: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_affairen.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
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Post by Jaga on Jan 4, 2015 22:33:48 GMT -7
Pieter, thanks for very good analysis, I agree that this director does not help the stereotype and does not show the deeper contest of the situation in Poland where Poles could easily die by helping Jews. Jaga, Things like in the movie Ida happened in Poland and other countries in Europe. The problem is that this image is an image of Poles and Poland during the war in the eyes of many non-Polish Europeans, Americans and Israeli's. The image of the vicious, primitive, greedy and Roman-Catholic peasent. It is a bad thing that only the negative stereotype exist in many European and American intellectual circles and people of the anti-semitic Pole 'who was fed anti-semitism with the milk of the mothers breast.! The idea of Poland as the center of anti-semitism in the world, without puting things into perpective and the role and existance of anti-semitism in Europe in general. It is not just antisemitism. Jews, gypsies, any minority group which want to establish its identity among other national/cultural groups is naturally met with scepticism and distrust. It goes both ways and it is natural since these people want to keep their identity against the others.
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Post by pieter on Jan 4, 2015 23:48:27 GMT -7
You are right Jaga. It was not just anti-semitism. There was also some pressure or discrimination of the Ukrainian, Gypsy and German minorities in Poland. But the minorities were not only victims. Militant Ukrainian (Ultra-) Nationalism and seperatist violence made Polish victims. But yes, the situation for the Ukrainians was difficult, since they faced some hostility of Polish Ultra-nationalists and authorities in Pre-war Poland after the death of Pilsudski, who was somwhat protective of minorities due to his commonwealth Sanacja ideology. And in the same time they were threatened from the East by the Sovjets (the harsh Stalinist regime which ruled Russia and Ukraine) So in the period 1935-1939 the situation for Ukrainians and jews deteriorated in Poland. But I agree with you that jews, gypsies and Ukrainians refused to assimilate and integrate into Polish society. Many jews with their Yiddish language and culture, oriental Eastern semitic looks and their Ultra-orthodox, secular Bund Socialist or in some cases (a minority of the Polish jews) communist affiliation were different than Poles. Other Polonist jews were assimilated or integrated. Some were Polish patriots, members of the Polish socialist party or conservative. Professor, artist, scientist, worker, shop owner, soldier or officer in the Polish army, teacher in a primary school or highschool or politician.
Minorities of today in Europe are stil the gypsies, but also in the case of Poland, Ukrainian migrants (guest workers), Belorussians, Vietnamese, Chinese and Chechen refugees from the civil wars in Chechenia. In Western-Europe the jews of today are Turks, Kurds, Moroccans, Afghans, Syrian and Iraqi refugees, Iranian dissidents, Somalians and others. Like the jews in the Poland of the past they look different, have a different language and a different culture. And many of them speak Dutch, German or another European language with a heavy accent or in a migrant slang. Muslim migrants of today face the same problems orthodox jews faced in Pre-war Europe and cause the same problems, because many of them are against integration and refuse to accept Western European culture. So you have a point there Jaga.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jan 5, 2015 5:16:52 GMT -7
Jaga,
The period 1935-1939 in Poland after Pilsudski's Sanacja regime (1926-1935) is also known as the time of the Colonels regime. The climate became less pleasent for the minorities in Poland who felt protected by Pilsudski. Moderate Polish Jews, Polish Ukrainians and Polish Germans supported Pilsudski's Sanacja regime, like many Roman-Catholic Poles. The Sanacja regime faced opposition from Centrolew, the Polish far right National Democratic (Endecja) and the Polish far left (the Polish communists).
Pilsudski's Sanacja regime put some socialists, 'Polish fascists', Endecja people and Polish communists in prison camps and prisons. You could call Pilsudski an enlightened dictator. He was not a fascist, nor an ultra-Nationalist. He was a Polish marshall, a former Polish socialist and a Polish partriot.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jan 5, 2015 7:36:15 GMT -7
Some critics on the Internet: Ida Reviews - Metacritic ariel84Jul 8, 2014Rating: 0Boring, not engaging, extremely over praised. critics are so desperate for something that's not total junk, they go berserk when a film has a cinematic/thoughtful quality. This one certainly had a multi-layered potentially intriguing story. Beautiful b+w cinematography, too, but nothing to draw me into the story. Take the 80 min and rewatch a Bresson, Tarkovsky, or Dreyer film. An other ceritic www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/ida-a-film-masterpieceTime Out New York Tom HuddlestonPawlikowski's film may be bleak and unforgiving, but it's also richly sympathetic and deeply moving. New York Daily News Joe NeumaierIda is photographed in gorgeous black-and-white cinematography. A deep focus allows every corner of the simple, serene compositions to be seen clearly. The economy of story and dialogue extends to the running time - at barely 90 minutes, the movie feels full, yet free of excess. Wall Street Journal Joe MorgensternPawel Pawlikowski's Ida, a compact masterpiece set in Poland in the early 1960s, gets to the heart of its matter with startling swiftness.
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Post by pieter on Jan 5, 2015 8:03:00 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jan 25, 2015 2:36:38 GMT -7
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Post by karl on Jan 25, 2015 6:33:37 GMT -7
Pieter
Yes, it becomes interesting with the advent of non-particements-upon being critical of a given film such as this. The foundation of the film is to play out a story, and, this was accomplished in the manner of intention of the creators.
And so, we have entered into the mix, out side opinions with out resposiblity other then to critically analyze the work of others. We have then, a self created industry with only the purpose of breaking down the work of others in a demeaning manner with out the responsibility of creation.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jan 25, 2015 15:28:55 GMT -7
Two good posts in one day Karl. My compliments. As a 'former' artist (having a studio, making fine art and participating in exhibitions, and having experiance with art projects and an art & culture program on radio Arnhem) and having read a lot of art critics essays, texts and articles about art house movies (like Ida), art photography and fine art echibitions in galleries and museums, I can share part of your judgement.
Art criticism is an important part of the art world, but there has always been a tension between the art producers (the moviemaker, the photographer, the painter, the sculpturist, the poet, the writer, the musician) and the art theory people; the art historians, the intellectual curators and the art critics. The artist takes the risk to create something new and sometimes provoking to establish change, progress or exchange (communication) about his or her work. I remember the irritation of artists about their critics. I heard them say: "When did she/he ever produced art? How can she/he judge about my art when she/he hasn't got experience in making it herself/himself?"
Cheers, Pieter
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