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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Nov 24, 2015 7:05:27 GMT -7
Turkey Says It Issued Multiple Warnings...
'Turkish Airspace Was Violated'...
Russian Aircraft 'Violated It Knowingly'...
Kremlin: 'Very Serious Incident'...
Reignites Cold War Tensions...
NATO To Hold Emergency Meeting...
Where in the world will this action take all of us?
It appears that insanity prevails.
The war drums are beating!!! JJ
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Post by Nictoshek on Nov 24, 2015 7:27:05 GMT -7
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Post by Nictoshek on Nov 24, 2015 8:51:33 GMT -7
Video allegedly shows dead Russian pilot surrounded by armed rebels in Syria (GRAPHIC)
The video posted online shows armed men around an alleged Russian pilot who seems to be unconscious and immobile. His face is bruised and bloodied. The men seem to be happy and are praising Allah, with some regretting that they hadn’t burned him on the spot:
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Post by karl on Nov 24, 2015 10:25:38 GMT -7
A very unfortionant situation that has occurred, with this, it would be not unimagined of diplomatic phones are running very hot at this time on both sides.
This though is a war zone, with the expected/unexpected to occure, but what will be expected, is a great deal of heat will be burned on the butt of the commander in charge of that flight. For this is a loss of an expensive combat machine, two crew members {one confirmed dead}, the pilot as for the present, missing.
In regards to the navigators facial injuries, this most likely was sustained in the ejection/bailout situation and not to any actions of fighters in attendance for the camera.
Karl
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Post by karl on Nov 24, 2015 14:32:08 GMT -7
The following is the damage control conducted as usual to a event such as this. With due respect to international recognized boundries of sovereign recognized air space is 22.2 Km from coast line or/and recognized border.
Once radar painted, the identifier transmitter would have transmitted the machine identity as Russian, in this, the reply from Turkish Embassy staff holds little water. Now they needs be come up with a more plausible reason{s} of downing a foreign military aircraft and loss of crew.
Turkey Claims No Knowledge Jet Shot Down Near Syrian Border Was Russian
© Sputnik/ Dmitriy Vinogradov
Europe
21:47 24.11.2015(updated 00:09 25.11.2015)
518913980
According to Turkey's letter to the United Nation's Security Council regarding its shooting down of a Russian bomber, the Turkish military did not know the nationality of the plane.
"This morning (24 November) 2 Su-24 planes, the nationality of which are unknown have approached Turkish national airspace in Yayladaga/Hatay region," the letter reads, drafted for the UN Security Council by the Turkish Ambassador.
NATO’s Stoltenberg Pleas for Calm After Downing of Russian Bomber Jet
Earlier, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan defended the military's actions as being "fully in line with Turkey's rules of engagement," and claimed "all efforts to avoid" the incident had been made.
"We did not want this situation to happen, but everybody has to respect Turkey's right to defend its borders," Erdogan said after a security meeting.
On Tuesday, Turkish F-16s shot down a Russian Su-24M Fencer bomber jet which they claim had violated Turkish airspace. Russia has maintained that its aircraft never entered Turkey — a fact confirmed by Syrian air defense command — and were conducting legitimate operations over Syria, where Moscow has been targeting the self-proclaimed Islamic State terrorist group.
Russian President Vladimir Putin called the incident a "stab in the back, carried out against us by accomplices of terrorists
Karl
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Post by Jaga on Nov 25, 2015 0:41:02 GMT -7
Karl,
I agree that this is a very unfortunate event. I think that probably Russians were using Turkish space sometimes and Turkey just had enough. Russia like the US - show imperial behavior too often. I hope that this would not cause escalation of conflict between NATO and Russia.
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Post by Eric on Nov 25, 2015 4:08:47 GMT -7
It is more important to NATO that Russia is pro-Assad than Russia is very much anti-ISIS.
It is more important to NATO that Russia pursues its own policies and has the capabilities to do so than working together with another major world power in fighting against evil.
Turkey made an extremely stupid and dangerous decision. Unfortunately, Turkey is backed by NATO, which disallows any thought that NATO is capable of making stupid and dangerous decisions.
Just a friendly reminder that Turkey only became a member of NATO to begin with for geographical reasons: it's a neighbor to both the former USSR and the Middle East. If it weren't for that alone, there's no question that NATO and Turkey would have had nothing positive to do with each other.
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Nov 25, 2015 4:52:05 GMT -7
Turkey made an extremely stupid and dangerous decision. Unfortunately, Turkey is backed by NATO, which disallows any thought that NATO is capable of making stupid and dangerous decisions. Just a friendly reminder that Turkey only became a member of NATO to begin with for geographical reasons: it's a neighbor to both the former USSR and the Middle East. If it weren't for that alone, there's no question that NATO and Turkey would have had nothing positive to do with each other.Erik, You are correct in this assessment. If it weren't for Turkeys geography they would never have gotten into NATO. And since they are a member, it is apparent that they are a very disagreeable member. Lately it seems that this country is just a skip away from becoming a radical Islamist breeding ground. |
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Nov 25, 2015 6:41:35 GMT -7
Putin Sends Air Defense Missiles To Syria To Deter TurkeyThe S-400 missile systems, which will be sent to the Hemeimeem air base in Syria’s coastal province of Latakia, located just about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey, are capable of targeting Turkish jets with deadly precision. AP By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV Posted: 11/25/2015 08:01 AM EST  By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered state-of-the art air defense missile systems to be deployed at a Russian air base in Syria following the downing of a Russian warplane by Turkey, a move that raised the threat of a military confrontation between the NATO member and Russia. The S-400 missile systems, which will be sent to the Hemeimeem air base in Syria’s coastal province of Latakia, located just about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey, are capable of targeting Turkish jets with deadly precision. If Russia shot down a Turkish plane, NATO would be required to intervene. Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 bomber Tuesday, saying it crossed into its airspace from Syria despite repeated warnings. One of its two pilots was killed by militants after bailing out, while his crewmate was rescued by Syrian army commandos and delivered in good condition to the Russian base. Putin said the Russian plane remained in Syria’s skies when it was shot down. He described Turkey’s action as a “crime” and a “stab in the back,” warning of serious consequences. On Wednesday, Putin ordered the military to deploy the S-400s to Hemeimeem and took other measures that “should be sufficient to ensure flight safety.” Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday that the Russian missile cruiser Moskva already has moved closer to shore to protect the Russian aircraft flying missions near Syria’s border with Turkey with its long-range Fort air defense system. Shoigu also said that from now on all Russian bombers will be escorted by fighters on their combat missions in Syria. He said that his ministry has severed all contacts with the Turkish military. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who canceled his planned trip to Turkey after the incident, described the shooting down of the Russian plane as a “planned provocation.” He said the Turkish action came after Russian planes successfully targeted the oil infrastructure used by the Islamic State, alleging that Turkey benefited from the oil trade. Lavrov also said that Turkish territory was used by “terrorists” to prepare terror attacks in other countries, but offered no details. He said that Russia “has no intention to go to war with Turkey,” but added that Moscow will re-consider its ties with Ankara. The Russian Foreign Ministry already has warned Russians against traveling to Turkey, and some leading Russian tourist agencies suspended the sales of tour packages to Turkey. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Wednesday that his country does not wish to escalate tensions with Russia over the downing of the plane. Speaking at an Organization of Islamic Cooperation economy meeting in Istanbul, Erdogan said that Turkey favors “peace, dialogue and diplomacy.” He defended his country’s move to shoot down the plane saying: “no one should expect Turkey to stay silent to border violations or the violation of its rights." Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu also sought to ease tensions, saying that Russia is Turkey's "friend and neighbor" and insisting relations cannot be "sacrificed to accidents of communication." Davutoglu told his party's lawmakers on Wednesday that Turkey didn't know the nationality of the plane that was brought down on Tuesday until Moscow announced it was Russian. He again defended Turkey's action, saying Russia was warned on several occasions that Turkey would take action in case its border is violated in line with its military rules of engagement. Davutoglu also said Russia is an "important partner and tops the list of countries with which we have shown great sensitivity in building ties." The Turkish prime minister, however, also criticized Russian and Syrian operations in Syria's Turkmen region, saying there is "not one single" presence of the Islamic State group there. Davutoglu demanded that operations there stop immediately. ___ Associated Press writers Nataliya Vasilyeva in Moscow, Suzan Fraser in Ankara and Zeina Karam in Beirut contributed to this report. |
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Nov 25, 2015 6:52:21 GMT -7
Now, I do not blame Russia and Putin at all on this. I personally put the entire blame on Turkey !!!
Russia suspends military cooperation with Turkey
NATO urges de-escalation of tensions after Turkey angers Russia by shooting down warplane near Syria border.
25 Nov 2015 11:11 GMT
Russia's defence ministry has announced suspension of military cooperation with Turkey and Sergey Lavrov, foreign minister, has cancelled a planned trip to Turkey following the downing of a Russian warplane near the Turkey-Syria border on Tuesday.
The Russian Sukhoi Su-24 warplane was shot down for allegedly violating Turkish airspace, angering Russia's President Vladimir Putin, who compared the incident to being "stabbed in the back".
Putin: Turkey's downing of jet a 'stab in the back'
Russia also warned its citizens not to travel to Turkey, saying it was unsafe, and deployed a warship to the coastline near where the plane crashed.
The plane crashed in Syrian territory in Latakia's Yamadi village.
One of the two Russian pilots who ejected from the jet was picked up by the Syrian army and is being taken to Russia's base there, Russia's ambassador to France said on Wednesday.
Alexandre Orlov told Europe 1 radio: "One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and killed in a savage way on the ground by the jihadists in the area.
"The other managed to escape and, according to the latest information, has been picked up by the Syrian army and should be going back to the Russian air force base."
A Russian helicopter was also shot at on Tuesday as it took part in the search for the two pilots near the Turkish-Syrian border, opposition groups in Syria said.
Turkey, Russia and their respective allies have entered a war of words after the incident, raising tensions in a region struggling to cope with the ongoing Syrian conflict.
Putin sharply criticised Turkey for establishing contact with NATO to discuss the incident, prior to contacting Russia.
"Today's loss is linked to a stab in the back delivered to us by accomplices of terrorists. I cannot qualify what happened today as anything else," Putin said in televised comments.
"Our plane was shot down over the territory of Syria by an air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16 jet. It fell in Syrian territory four kilometres from the border with Turkey. Our pilots and our plane did not in any way threaten Turkey.
"Instead of immediately establishing contacts with us, as far as we know Turkey turned to its NATO partners to discuss this incident - as if we had hit their plane and not the other way around," he said.
Russia has been carrying out air strikes in Syria since September, saying it is targeting ISIL and al-Nusra Front.
The Syrian opposition and Western powers, however, say the Russian strikes have mainly targeted rebel groups fighting the Syrian government - an ally of Russia.
Ahmet Davutoglu, Turkey's prime minister, said Turkey had a duty to act against anyone violating its borders.
"Everyone must know that it is our international right and national duty to take any measure against whoever violates our air or land borders," he said in Ankara.
"Turkey will not hesitate to take all steps to protect the country's security."
While NATO called for the two nations to show restraint, Jens Stoltenberg, the alliance secretary-general, said: "We stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally."
President Barack Obama said while the US did not have enough information to form conclusions about the incident, similar confrontations could be avoided if Russia stopped attacking "moderate" Syrian rebels who are battling forces loyal to the government of President Bashar al-Assad.
"This points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations in the sense that they are operating very close to a Turkish border and they are going after moderate opposition that are supported by not only Turkey but a wide range of countries," Obama said.
Meanwhile, the Syrian government backed its key ally Russia, with a military official telling the state SANA news agency that by shooting down the Russian plane, Turkey had committed "a gross violation of Syrian sovereignty".
OPINION: Turkey won't lose any sleep over Russia's harsh words
"The desperate acts of aggression will only increase our determination to continue the war against the terrorist organisations with the support and help of Syria's friends, mainly Russia," the official said.
A major point of contention is whether the Russian jet crossed into Turkish airspace, with the two nations releasing their own satellite images showing conflicting views of the jet's final flight path.
A Turkish military statement said the plane violated Turkish airspace in Hatay province and was warned "10 times in five minutes" before being shot down at 9:24am local time.
A US official told Al Jazeera that the penetration of Turkish airspace by the Russian jet lasted "only a matter of seconds" as it crossed a roughly 3km wide section of Turkey that took only 20 seconds to traverse.
Russia, however, vehemently denied that its plane ever crossed into Turkish airspace.
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Post by karl on Nov 25, 2015 7:48:25 GMT -7
Other then opinion, once again to say this was an very unfortionant situation arriving out of one incident occurance during one of many combat offensive missions against an identified enemy position. Turkey is caught in a vice of circumstances dealing with the American Government over the past many years, and as circumstances will dectate to continue into the foreseeable future. Perhaps though, better to view the fact sheet of U.S. Relations with Turkey: www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3432.htmKarl |
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Nov 27, 2015 5:10:41 GMT -7
Russia tells tourists to GET OUT of Turkey as Moscow is accused of slander over ISIS oil
RUSSIANS have been warned to stay AWAY from Turkey as flights to tourist parts of the country have been cancelled following the downing of a Russian jet.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov reported the number of planes from Russia to Turkey had fallen, while empty airliners had begun arriving in Turkish airports to bring Russians back home.
One of the country's leading tourism unions, the Turkish Hoteliers Federation, claimed the number of Russian tourists in the area had risen after flights were directed to Turkey following the deadly downing of a plane in Egypt last month by Islamic State (ISIS) terrorists.
Speaking on this, Mr Lavrov said: “The level of the terrorist threat in Turkey is not lower than in Egypt.”
He added that it was difficult to predict levels of tourism for Russians going to Turkey next year.
Mr Lavrov said: “The incident is still fresh. Therefore, it is too early to comment. The relations between the two countries are deep-rooted. Thus, we hope these incidents will be soothed without escalating the issue.”
It comes as tensions between Russia and Turkey deepened after the superpower was accused of slander and being ‘emotional’ following the downing of its jet.
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan lashed out and said Russia’s response to the downing of its fighter plane near the Syrian border was "unfitting" after Russia suggested some projects could be cancelled.
In an escalating war of words, Mr Erdogan also accused Russia of slander after it said Turkey was the main buyer of oil and gas from Islamic State (ISIS) terrorists in Syria.
Turkey’s downing of the jet on Tuesday was one of the most serious publicly acknowledged clashes between a NATO member and Russia for half a century, and further complicated international efforts to battle Islamic State militants in Syria.
He added that if Russia violated its airspace again, it would not hold back. He said: "If Russia violates our airspace today we will shoot down their jet again."
Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev ordered his Government to draw up measures that would include freezing some joint investment projects and restricting food imports from Turkey.
However, in a speech to local officials in Ankara, Turkey’s capital, Mr Erdogan said: "We are strategic partners.
“Joint projects may be halted, ties could be cut'?
“Are such approaches fitting for politicians?"
"First the politicians and our militaries should sit down and talk about where errors were made and then focus on overcoming those errors on both sides.
“But instead, if we make emotional statements like this, that wouldn’t be right."
Mr Erdogan said the Russian jet was shot down on Tuesday as an "automatic reaction" to the violation of Turkish air space, in line with standing instructions given to the military.
Those instructions were a separate issue to disagreements with Russia over Syria policy, he said, adding Ankara would continue to support moderate rebels in Syria and Turkmen fighters battling President Bashar al-Assad.
Russia insists its jet never left Syrian air space.
Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev alleged that Turkish officials were benefiting from ISIS oil sales, while Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said it was no secret that "terrorists" use Turkish territory.
However, Mr Erdogan launched a verbal attack on Russia and said: "Shame on you. It's clear where Turkey buys its oil and gas.
“Those who claim we are buying oil from Daesh (ISIS) like this must prove their claims - nobody can slander this country.
"If you are seeking the source of weaponry and financial power of Daesh, the first place to look is the Assad regime and countries that act with it.”
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Nov 27, 2015 5:16:26 GMT -7
Turkey must be removed from NATO: US Army general Turkey’s recent sequence of actions necessitates its booting from NATO, says retired US Army Major General Paul Vallely.Turkey’s downing of a Russian warplane over Syria has proven that the country is a liability to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and must be “ousted” from the Western military alliance, says a retired US Army General. The shooting down of a Russian aircraft near the Syrian border was in line with Ankara’s struggle to establish itself as a “dominant” power, retired US Army Major General Paul Vallely said Thursday. Vallely said Turkey must be removed from NATO because it poses a “big and important issue” in many ways for other members. “I think NATO, if they have any resolve, they would oust Turkey out of NATO because they are not cooperating against ISIL, they are not cooperating at all with some of the forces inside of Syria, and they want to see [Syrian President Bashar] Assad removed or replaced by another government,” the retired General told Russia's RT. Vallely, who served in the Vietnam War and retired in 1993 as Deputy Commanding General, Pacific Command, said Turkey’s “unilateral action” in downing the Russian jet was also a signal to NATO, meaning that despite being a member, they would not refrain from pursuing their own interests when necessary. “They have been that way for a long time; they are a part of it [NATO], but yet they are not,” he said. The former US Army commander further described Turkey as an internal threat to NATO, who “will only cooperate when they have to and they will get as much out of NATO as they can” in terms of weapons and tactics. On Tuesday, Turkey shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 Fencer jet, claiming the aircraft had repeatedly violated its air space. Vallely said Turkey is poised to take more provocative measures in near future. The US and NATO have expressed solidarity with Turkey after the incident, citing the country’s right to defend its airspace. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Thursday that his country will not apologize to Russia about what happened. Russian President Vladimir Putin has described Turkey’s hostile act, that killed two Russian military personnel, as a “stab in the back,” administered by "the accomplices of terrorists." Vallely said that despite the downing of the jet, Putin still "controls the chessboard" because of his strong military presence in Syria.
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Post by karl on Nov 27, 2015 6:03:23 GMT -7
With much respect to the American retired Major General Paul Vallely, but there is some question of what he has been smoking lately. For it is to the option of Turkish Government of rather the only two bases left, will be allowed to be retained for American use and of late, only for purpose of NATO operations.
That is the Strategic Airbase of Ismir which is located close to the Aegean Sea which equates to direct access to the Middle East. Whilst the other remaining Strategic Airbase is Incirlike located close by to Adana which is close by to the Mediterranean Sea, and, direct access in flight time to the Middle East. Once again, due to past difficulties between both Goverments of The US and Turkey, both bases are at present restricted to only NATO operations.
With due respect to the standing of the good general, Turkey is little different then the other two powers, that being The Russian Federation and the USA in attending to vested interest. It then remains some what problematic as to why and for what reason his standing is to his rhetoric against Turkey.
He does though have some good points, but then, so would other military generals if to provide a similar foundation for their argument.
Karl
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