|
Post by pieter on Apr 25, 2018 8:39:37 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Apr 25, 2018 9:07:23 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by karl on Apr 25, 2018 16:55:56 GMT -7
Pieter
In my minds eye, each report makes sense, but is a bit tricky incomprehension to the individual. I would tend to believe the taste is in the pudding or for which side of the fence the respective person is on.
Karl
|
|
|
Post by karl on Apr 25, 2018 18:20:58 GMT -7
Thought perhaps to add this tid bit as an addition to your presentation. Israeli police officer jailed for 9 months for killing Palestinian teen By Ian Lee, CNN Updated 7:34 PM ET, Wed April 25, 2018 www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/middleeast/israeli-police-officer-jailed-intl/index.htmlBen Deri was sentenced to nine months in prison and ordered him to pay Nuwara's family 50,000 Israeli shekels, or nearly $14,000. Jerusalem (CNN)Tension filled the small Jerusalem courtroom as a family sat meters away from the man who killed their son, waiting to hear the judge's verdict. The defendant, Ben Deri, arrived accompanied by his family and girlfriend. Deri was serving as an Israeli border policeman four years ago when clashes erupted near the West Bank village of Beitunya. The date was May 15 -- when Palestinians mark the "Nakba" or Catastrophe, in memory of the more than 700,000 people who were either driven from, or fled, their homes during the Arab-Israeli war that accompanied the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. CNN producer Kareem Khadder had a camera in hand and was filming at the precise moment Deri aimed and fired his rifle at Nadeem Nuwara. Nearby CCTV cameras captured the 17-year-old Palestinian walking unarmed before collapsing as a bullet entered his chest. A second Palestinian teenager was shot and killed by Israeli forces just over an hour later. An Israeli military spokesman said a preliminary inquiry showed that live fire had not been used. Later investigations proved otherwise State prosecutors initially charged Deri with manslaughter, arguing that he knowingly used live ammunition. Under a plea deal, that charge was reduced to negligent homicide, with Deri admitting to an accidental use of live rounds. The parents of late Palestinian teenager Nadeem Nuwarah, who was killed by Ben Deri. To the end, Nuwara's family was convinced that Deri knew the type of ammunition he was using. "Ben Deri's mentor described a responsible, accurate, committed and disciplined soldier," Siam Nuwara, Nadeem's father, told CNN. "I agree with the witness. Ben Deri is accurate and truly plans ahead. He knew very well what he was doing." Judge Daniel Teperberg sentenced Deri to nine months in prison, and ordered him to pay Nuwara's family 50,000 Israeli shekels, or nearly $14,000. As the judge read the sentence, Deri's mother cried. Nuwara's family fumed with rage and called the decision a joke. "Nadeem's case is the strongest," Siam told CNN after the trial. "We have all the evidence, strong evidence, but there is no justice in Israel." Deri, flanked by his family and girlfriend, dodged journalists as he left the court just after the verdict. His lawyer, Zion Amir, said he was happy with the reduced charge and sentence, but insisted the case should never have gone to trial in the first place. "We don't like the fact they are putting fighters on trial under circumstances like these," Amir told journalists. "We think [the soldiers and police officers] are carrying out their roles." Video of the incident, including the material from CNN and captured by CCTV, helped build a picture of events. The court subpoenaed CNN's footage and ordered CNN producer Kareem Khadder to testify to defend the video's authenticity and recount the shooting. "I saw a border police officer playing with his rifle, and later aiming at the protesters," Khadder recalled for the court. "I waited until he fired, and waited further for a military personnel next to him to fire at the protesters, before panning the camera on to the protesters. During that time, I heard protesters in the distance shouting, 'Isaaf, Isaaf' -- they were calling for an ambulance." A United Nations report about the incident found that Nuwara, and the other teen killed later, did not present a direct threat when they were shot. T he judge agreed with the report. His sentencing detailed how the rock-throwing had ceased by the time Deri shot Nuwara. "Against procedures, and despite the fact there was no threat from the deceased [Nuwara] to the soldiers, the accused pointed his gun at the direction of the chest of the deceased and fired at him," the judgment read. It added that -- crucially -- Deri fired under the belief he was shooting a rubber bullet. Palestinians said the killing and the subsequent verdict highlighted a double standard in the occupied West Bank, a place where they say Israeli soldiers and settlers act without real consequence. "Such a conviction represents Israel's deliberate dehumanization of its Palestinian victims, primarily children, which is the outcome of decades of the military occupation that holds an entire nation under captivity, and employs an unremitting and lethal shoot-to-kill policy against Palestinians," Palestinian Liberation Organization Executive Committee Member Hanan Ashrawi said in a statement condemning the verdict. Prosecutors said they were disappointed with the sentence, but added that it sent an important message to Israeli security forces. "We thought the sentence should have been longer, but still the fact the court says someone will go to jail although he was there as a soldier has a powerful meaning," prosecutor Gula Cohen told CNN after the trial. Karl
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on Apr 25, 2018 21:44:20 GMT -7
Karl, it is good that the policeman got jailed, but I guess he was just a small fish. Bibi and others help to keep Apartheid. It is so bad that even US stopped believing there is any chance of fair negotiations.
Pieter, I listened to the monologue of the program host and I agree.
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Apr 26, 2018 4:48:20 GMT -7
Two sides in Israël en Palestine
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on Apr 26, 2018 4:53:54 GMT -7
Here is what is going on in Gaza now with high unemployment, poverty, no hope Behind bloody Gaza clashes, economic misery and piles of debtwww.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/behind-bloody-gaza-clashes-economic-misery-and-piles-of-debt/2018/04/23/b4e6476c-3744-11e8-af3c-2123715f78df_story.html?utm_term=.e534457b2f75GAZA CITY — Every Friday for the past month, thousands of Palestinians have surged to Gaza’s border fence with Israel in a show of anger and defiance, some throwing stones and molotov cocktails, others simply wanting to be there. “Young people have nothing to lose,” said 31-year-old Mohammed Sukkar, a few hundred yards from the boundary fence on the first day of protests last month as the crowd retreated after pops of gunfire. Sukkar is unemployed and said he is hard-pressed to feed his six children. Across the 140-square-mile territory, Gazans are struggling to finance their daily lives. Young people — unable to pay for weddings or homes of their own — are delaying marriage, figures show, while health officials say suicide, once virtually unheard of in Gaza, is on the rise. Universities say students are dropping out because they cannot afford the fees. At the Islamic University in Gaza City, a third of the students did not re-enroll this semester. Graduates have little hope of finding work in their specialized fields. Unemployment in Gaza is nearly 50 percent, and 68 percent of those between the ages of 20 and 24 are jobless, according to figures from the Palestine Trade Center. 0:38 Palestinian protesters fly kites during fourth week of mass rallies The Gaza Strip’s economy has been crippled by a more than decade-long blockade by Israel, which maintains tight controls on trade and movement in and out of the territory, citing security considerations. But Gazans are also frustrated with the territory’s rulers, the Hamas organization, for its failure to provide basic services, and with the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority for cutting the salaries of its Gaza employees. The United Nations is warning that something has got to give. Even Israeli security officials have sounded an alarm in recent months, warning that a humanitarian crisis could set off an explosion of violence, putting Israel itself at risk.*** “We are on the edge of economic collapse,” said Judge Mohammed Nofal, sorting through a pile of case files in his courtroom in central Gaza, where plaintiffs and accused debtors shuffle in and out to have their financial cases heard. Nofal’s courtroom, nothing more than a small office stacked with files, provides a glimpse into Gaza’s economic hardships. From behind his desk, he hears about 20 cases a day and rules on another 80 just from the paperwork. Employees at a Gaza court check files of outstanding financial cases. (Wissam Nassar/For The Washington Post) Lawyers wait inside the Gaza courthouse. (Wissam Nassar/For The Washington Post) Mohammed Nofal, a judge, checks the financial files for cases he will rule on. (Wissam Nassar/For The Washington Post) Nofal, one of two financial judges in the Gaza court, said he heard 12,000 cases last year, up 50 percent from the year before. The value of checks bounced in the territory surged to $112 million last year, according to the Palestine Monetary Authority. In 2016, the figure was $62 million. Desperate for small loans, Gazans seek credit wherever they can, Nofal said. Often, for instance, people turn to electronics stores that offer products on credit, signing up to buy televisions or washing machines on installment plans, then immediately selling those appliances to get cash
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on Apr 26, 2018 4:56:42 GMT -7
Pieter, not sure there are two equal sides in the conflict - Israel has all the strings and power, Palestinians have nothing to live for expect anger and survival without dignity - to be born and die in ghetto.
I found this sad comment:
Israel can build fences, higher walls, dynamite tunnels, deny access to the sea, land and air - but the reality is that the Palestinian people in Gaza and in the West Bank are not going anywhere. Right now Hezbollah has enough rockets in place to do serious damage. Iran can easily supply drones. Russian surface to air missiles will bring down Israeli aircraft. The point is that you can denigrate, dehumanize and kill people in Gaza all you want but the time is coming when Israeli might will no longer protect its villages and cities. It's high time Israel chose smarter leaders.
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on Apr 26, 2018 5:16:49 GMT -7
Musta'ribeen, Israel's agents who pose as Palestinians Musta'ribeen are an elite Israeli undercover unit that disguises themselves as Arabs or Palestinians.www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/musta-israel-agents-pose-palestinians-171218061118857.htmlThey are dressed like Palestinian protesters, speak with the same accents and expressions, and show the same mannerisms. Their faces covered with checkered keffiyehs or balaclavas, they chant against the Israeli army and sometimes throw stones in the direction of the soldiers, all while drawing in other protesters as they get closer and closer to the army. Then, quick as a bang, the scene erupts, and this group suddenly turns on the rest of the Palestinian protesters, brandishing guns that were concealed under their shirts, firing in the air, grabbing those nearest to them and wrestling them to the ground. The army advances and takes into custody the Palestinians that were caught, as the rest of the protesters disperse, screaming out one word as a warning to others: "Musta'ribeen!"
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Apr 27, 2018 15:40:28 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Apr 27, 2018 15:56:28 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Apr 27, 2018 16:10:21 GMT -7
I post this video's because most visitors on this Forum are American and the Palestinian narrative is less shown in the American press than the Palestinian side. I don't post this video's because I am anti-Israel or anti-zionist.
I believe in Democracy and thus both Palestinian nationalism, pleas for Palestinian human rights on one side and the Zionist/Israeli and American Pro-Israeli platforms are legitimate.
Both Israel and the Free Palestine movement have strong propaganda tools and their propaganda war or struggle is global.
|
|
|
Post by karl on Apr 27, 2018 19:12:07 GMT -7
Pieter
The video presentations provided are excellent value in education to out siders of Israel and The Gaza other wise known as Palestine. We as out siders will of course have our personal opinion and view point of what Israel should do, and/or should not do. The actual facts are: Israel is not leaving at the present or fore seeable future nor will the Palestinians leave, for each is stuck with one another.
For as above, is a conflict of cultures, but one that will not tolerate, and that appears to be the Palestinians with the Israelis. The following is a much better description:
09/21/2011 02:57 pm ET Updated Nov 21, 2011
Why the UN Should Not Recognize the Proposed Palestinian State
By Alan Dershowitz
The United Nations is being asked to grant the Palestinians the status of a “state,” for at least some purposes. The question arises what kind of a state will it be? In an effort to attract Western support, the Palestinian Authority claims that it will become another “secular democratic state.” Hamas, which won the last parliamentary election, disagrees. It wants Palestine to be a Muslim state governed by Sharia Law.
We know what the Palestinian leadership is saying to the West. Now let’s look at what its saying to its own people, who will, after all, be the ultimate decision makers if Palestine is indeed a democracy.
The draft constitution for the new state of Palestine declares that “Islam is the official religion in Palestine.” It also states that Sharia Law will be “the major source of legislation.” It is ironic that the same Palestinian leadership which supports these concepts for Palestine refuses to acknowledge that Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people. Israel, in contrast to the proposed Palestinian state, does not have an official state religion. Although it is a Jewish state, that description is not a religious one but rather a national one. It accords equal rights to Islam, Christianity and all other religions, as well as to atheists and agnostics. Indeed, a very high proportion of Israelis describe themselves as secular.
The new Palestinian state would prohibit any Jews from being citizens, from owning land or from even living in the Muslim state of Palestine. The Ambassador of the PLO to the United States was asked during an interview whether “any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?” His answer: “Absolutely”! After much criticism, the Ambassador tried to spin his statement, saying that it applied only to Jews “who are amid the occupation.” Whatever that means, one thing is clear: large numbers of Jews will not be welcome to remain in Islamic Palestine as equal citizens. In contrast, Israel has more than 1 million Arab citizens, most of whom are Muslims. They are equal under the law, except that they need not serve in the Israeli army.
The new Palestine will have the very “law of return” that it demands that Israel should give up. All Palestinians, no matter where they live and regardless of whether they have ever set foot in Palestine, will be welcome to the new state, while a Jew whose family has lived in Hebron for thousands of years will be excluded.
To summarize, the new Palestinian state will be a genuine apartheid state. It will practice religious and ethnic discrimination, it will have one official religion and it will base its laws on the precepts of one religion. Imagine what the status of gays will be under Sharia law!
Palestinian leadership accuses Israel of having roads that are limited only to Jews. This is entirely false: a small number of roads on the West Bank are restricted to Israelis, but they are equally open to Israeli Jews, Muslims and Christians alike. The entire state of Palestine will have a “no Jews allowed” sign on it.
It is noteworthy that the very people who complain most loudly about Israel’s law of return and about its character as the nation state of the Jewish people, are silent when it comes to the new Palestinian state. Is it that these people expect more of Jews than they do of Muslims? If so, is that not a form of racism?
What would the borders of a Palestinian state look like if the Palestinians got their way without the need to negotiate with Israel? The Palestinians would get, as a starting point, all of the land previously occupied by Jordan prior to the 1967 War, in which Jordan attacked Israel. This return to the status quo that led to the 6 Day War is inconsistent with the intention of Security Council Resolution 242, which contemplated some territorial changes.
The new boundaries of this Palestinian state would include Judaism’s holiest place, the Western Wall. It would also include the access roads to Hebrew University, which Jordan used to close down this great institution of learning founded by the Jews nearly 100 years ago. The new Palestinian state would also incorporate the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, in which Jews have lived for 3000 years, except for those periods of time during which they were expelled by force.
It is contemplated, of course, that Israel would regain these areas as part of a land swap with the Palestinians. But there is no certainty that the Palestinians would agree to a reasonable land swap. Palestinian leaders have already said that they would hold these important and sacred sites hostage to unreasonable demands. For example, the Western Wall covers only a few acres, but the Palestinian leadership has indicated that these acres are among the most valuable in the world, and in order for Israel to regain them, they would have to surrender thousands of acres. The same might be true of the access road to Hebrew University and the Jewish Quarter.
When Jordan controlled these areas, the Jordanian government made them Judenrein — Jews could not pray at the Western Wall, visit the Jewish Quarter, or have access to Hebrew University. There is no reason to believe that a Palestinian state would treat Jews any differently if they were to maintain control over these areas.
An Apartheid, Islamic, Judenrein Palestine on the 1967 borders is a prescription for disaster. That is why a reasonable Palestinian state must be the outcome of negotiations with Israel, and not the result of a thoughtless vote by the United Nations.
The Palestinians and Israeli leaders are now in New York. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has offered to sit down and negotiate, with no preconditions, a realistic peace based on a two-state solution. President Abbas should accept that offer, which will actually get the Palestinians a viable state rather than a cheap paper victory that will raise expectations but lower the prospects for real peace.
Karl
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Apr 28, 2018 4:55:29 GMT -7
From an investigative journalism point of view I love your reaction Karl, because I hoped you would post such an article or essay to complete the picture and show both sides. Thank you. In this thread people can see the Palestinian narrative, the narrative of Israeli 'dissidents' or critics of Israeli policies and the opinion of a Pro-Israeli and Zionist American lawyer and academic. Alan DershowitzDershowitz is a strong supporter of Israel. He self-identifies as " Pro-Israel and Pro-Palestine", and said " were I an Israeli, I'd be a person of the left and voting the left". At the same time, he is on record as stating that both the Palestinian leadership and the Palestinian people supported a genocidal war, and revere a figure, Amin al-Husseini, probably because, in Dershowitz's view, the latter actively participated in the Holocaust. In addition, he has criticized President Obama on his foreign policy stance toward Israel after the United States abstained from voting on the United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334, which condemned Israel for building settlements in Palestinian territory. He has said, "I will not be a member of a party that represents itself through a chairman like Keith Ellison and through policies like that espoused by John Kerry and Barack Obama." Amin al-Husseini with Adolf HitlerDershowitz has engaged in highly publicized debates with a number of other commentators, including Meir Kahane, Noam Chomsky, and Norman Finkelstein. When former U.S. President Jimmy Carter had his book Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid (2006) published - in which he argues that Israel's control of Palestinian land is the primary obstacle to peace - Dershowitz challenged Carter to a debate at Brandeis University. Carter declined, saying, " I don't want to have a conversation even indirectly with Dershowitz. There is no need to debate somebody who, in my opinion, knows nothing about the situation in Palestine." Carter did address Brandeis in January 2007, but only Brandeis students and staff were allowed to attend. Dershowitz was invited to respond on the same stage only after Carter had left. He also took part in the Doha Debates at Georgetown University in April 2009, where he spoke against the motion " this House believes it's time for the US to get tough on Israel", with Dore Gold, President of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. Speakers for the motion were Avraham Burg, former Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel and former Speaker of the Knesset; and Michael Scheuer, former Chief of the CIA Bin Laden Issue Station. Dershowitz's side lost the debate, with 63 percent of the audience voting for the motion.
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Apr 28, 2018 8:03:41 GMT -7
|
|