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Post by pieter on Aug 4, 2018 15:52:53 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Aug 4, 2018 16:08:50 GMT -7
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Post by karl on Aug 4, 2018 20:02:14 GMT -7
Pieter
The two comical videos were very funny, I very well understood them.. I had to think for a moment with the two ladies, for one to say {you hate the Dutch} Whilst the other lady replied { I dont hate the Dutch, I just hold them to a higher standard}..
Whilst the first video was with humour, the second was funny and a bit not so funny with the actions of ignorance of the seated American. Then mis-understanding the waiter and later causing a burn injury to the waiter with his back turned by tossing his alcohol drink past the heating flamms and this in turn splashed burning liquid upon the waiters back.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Aug 5, 2018 0:54:32 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Aug 5, 2018 1:20:45 GMT -7
I like the fact that in Poland , people, especially to people you don't know, Polish people sometimes don't say some things (politeness, a certain pleasant distance). The fact that in the Netherlands there is no limitation is sometimes problematic. Therefor I trains I act anomymously and prefer to walk through a train lomg enough to find a seat with no people next to me and sit alone to not be bothered by other Dutch people, because I don't like that directness and sometimes bluntness when I travel. I can be irritated by the loudness, directness and bluntness of some young Dutch people, but sometimes also older people in trains, and sometimes am ashamed when I see for instance nice foreign people on the train. For instance a nice American family, decent, polite, sophisticated British people, or more silently and polite speaking Flemish people. I want to be alone and not bothered and choose when to have contact with people and when not. I am a Dutchman, yes, but not the same in all aspects of Dutchness, like 100% Dutch people. Probably that is some Old fashionate Old Dutch upbringing and certainly some Polish mentality and ideas which came to me via my mothers upbringing, which elements she got from her Polish grandparents upbringing. Politeness, being decent to other people, don't bothering them when you don't have to and etc. That are certain Polish and maybe Old-Duch things I was brough up with versus the 'New Dutch' mentality of today. I prefer the British politeness and pleasentness in contact, the Belgian more conservative, slightly laid back or not so direct approach and the Polish way of behavior and mentality I witnessed with the good Polish people in the Netherlands and Poles I met in Krakow, Poznan and Warsaw. Abroad however I have t admid that the Dutch directness can be pleasent on vacation, because I immediately recognise Dutch people frrom a distance by the way they look, dress, behave and their Dutch language. In that case it is verh easy for me to connect to compatriots, due to our shared language, nationality and culture. So what I consider negatively due to my desire for anonimity and being left alone in the Netherlands turns differently abroad. When I am alone for some time and want to connect to people the Dutch directness is then a good thing. The same thing by the way I have with English speaking peoples and with Scandinavians. Probably because Scandinavians, although they are different than the West-Germanic Dutch, due to their North-Germanic Scandinavian languages, have the same social, social capitalist, cultural things we Dutch have, like a collectivist social security system, culture and health care next to the free market economy, and the fact that they are tall, rather blond and blue eyed people like many Dutch people too (against the cliche you have also brunette, dark haired, brown eyes Scandinavians too). Look at Abba for instance. ANother positive aspect of the multi-cultural nature of the Netherlands. Due to the fact that I am used to different cultures in sociological, psychological, social cultural context and thus used to different cultures, languages, customs and traditions. (For instance I see Muslim men and women daily, I see and hear other non Western languages daily) For me it is not so difficult to go to other countries with completely different languages, cultures and traditions. I felt completely comfortable and happy in Poland, Czech republic, Hungary (Budapest) and the Azores (Portuguese island) while I literary understoond zero from what the local people spoke there and couldn't read any signs, product descriptions and signs on boards and leaflets. So the Dutch directness, confrontational in to the face sudden directness and sightly bluntness has negative and positive sides. Maybe it is a trade nation, fast negotiation and doing business, and seafaring people (sailors, commercial navy people and fishermen) sometimes are more direct than only agrarian or continental land climate (countries with no borders to or with the sea) people. There is a reason for everything and thus there is a reason for why the Dutch are like the Dutch, the Czechs and Slovaks like the Czechs and Slovaks, the Germans like the Germans, the Poles like the Poles, the Turks like the Turks, Russians like the Russians, Danes like the Danes and Americans like the Americans.
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Post by pieter on Aug 5, 2018 1:23:20 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Aug 5, 2018 1:32:01 GMT -7
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Post by karl on Aug 5, 2018 13:37:46 GMT -7
Pieter
Your presentation after a bit, was to ring some bells in my memory. One, The Americans are so sensitive and stubborn. Notice: This is not with intent to irritate our American friends here}..
The Americans seem to be pleased to treat us Europeans and both children and un-informed with the rest of the world. With this, they {Americans} seem to feel we need guidence as not able to manage our own affairs. But,,wait.. Where did they obtain the lauguage of English? And, where did the Brits obtain their guidence of English {maybe from The Frisians?}.
What the Americans seem to forget, is where their origins are from, yes Europe of course.. For America is an original land of immigrants from the various European states with their own skills, families, language and, Christmas. Of the various names of Christmas and holiday time, the meaning is always the same, it is the birth of Christ. The sacred time of the year in as well as to Easter in the Christian sense.
The other bell that rang in my senses, is your description of wishing whilst on a train or bus to be left alone. My self had this as a given, for in Denmark, it is normal for others not to speak to another unless of course they are friends and discussing what ever. But for a stranger, it is normal to leave the other alone. For this is not rudeness, but respect of the others privacy. Of course people are people, a smile to another and a remark, of course this is people.
My self, yes I do wish to be not disturbed whilst travelling. For one, I enjoy looking out the window at the scenery and if on an airliner, although my self am afraid of heights, still, to enjoy looking down at the passing land scape. The other, I need this time with my thoughts, it calms me down and a time to think whilst observing the people around me and the area.
With meeting Dutch people from the Netherlands, well, whilst living in Cuxhaven, it is a port city and of course their are many Dutch families and sailers on a daily basis. I had not thought of them being different from our selves other then our different langauge, but it was still easy to communicate by speaking slow. I must admit though of some times confusing a person from the Netherlands as being Nordic {Norwegian or Danish, Swedes for some reason for the most part are a little different, not sure why}.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Aug 5, 2018 14:07:09 GMT -7
Karl, This is funny and I was laughing a bit. Being confused with Scandinavians is not insult, but a compliment, because I love Scandinavians Karl, or am fond of them. My former Amsterdam Dutch girlfriend had a Norwegian name, because for some reason her family from the father side was crazy about anything Norwegian. Even their house was in Norwegian style. They had translated books of Norwegian writers and they loved Scandinavian sages and mythology. I slept often weekends in their Norwegian family house in Noordwijk at sea at the South-Holland North coast. Count to that the Danish girls from Copenhagen, Icelandic students at my Arnhem Art Academy and the fact that I knew Swedish students in my Amsterdam 1990-1992 time. I love Scandinavian movies, sitcoms, detective tv series, Real Humans, Dogma 95 movies of the Danish directors and etc. Karl, Dutch people are tall, blond, blue eyed people and Norwegians, Swedes, Icelanders and Danish people are also tall, blond, blue eyed people, and both Dutch people and Scandinavian people have a Germanic North-West-European culture and language. So, it is not suprisingly at all that you confuse 'us' with Danes, Swedes, Norwegians or Icelanders. We look similar and in many aspects we are the same as the Danes. One difference is that many Danes are Lutherans and many Dutch have a Calvinist background, but ofcourse these are minor insignificant differences. I don't say this in an ironical or sacrcastic way Karl, I am deadly serious, Danes and Dutch people look alike. Several times abroad I thought I saw Dutch or Flemish (Belgian people) in the distance, and found out that they were Danes or Swedes when they came closer by. I La Gomera for instance or in South-Africa. So even I made that mistake Karl. Cheers, Pieter P.S.- Maybe Jaga, Kaima, Ludwik and other poeple with Slavic people experience and heritage have the same thing with their Polish and Slovak people and for instance Czechs or Ukrainians. Or are the differences to big and do Slavic people look different. When I see sometimes a Slavic women and don't know her name or background and she is for instance Serb or Croat I sometimes asked them if they were Polish, Czech or Slovak and then found out that I was mistaken.
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