|
|
Post by pieter on Aug 4, 2018 16:00:08 GMT -7
|
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Aug 4, 2018 16:01:06 GMT -7
It isn't winter yet, but today the black Pete struggle and competition between Pro and contra takes place all year. The discussions goes on!
|
|
|
|
Post by karl on Aug 4, 2018 19:08:26 GMT -7
Pieter This is good news. For the will of the people once again succeeds over the loud mouths wishing to over turn such a historic event for the hollidays as Black Pete{Zwarte Piet}. In Denmark, as children knew of Zwarte Piet of the Netherlands {Nederlands}, but we had Julenisse, even after the war, it was the same for us for we were a stubborn people. In school though, it was Julemanden {our name for Sinterklaas}. Perhaps for possible confusion, the following url best describes the above. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JulemandenKarl |
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Aug 5, 2018 2:01:58 GMT -7
Karl,
For me tradition is not always the most important thing. Thank god in the USA, Great Britain and the Netherlands some of the worst aspects of colonialism, Feudalism, a strict hierarchical class society with class racism, which was traditional for centuries and decades are removed, changed or abolished. Like for instance the idea that the upper class was superior, the the middle class the average norm and okay and the working classes and servant classes (butlers, housekeepers, cleaning ladies and etc.) looked down on. That European 'class racism' (whites looking down on other whites of a lower class) is largely gone, but in subtle and refined ways that old class societies, etiquette, different class languages (versions of the samen language) still exist in Europe. The United Kingdom (Great Britian) for instance is a very sophisticated and refined class society, with maybe a layer of six or seven classes from the lower working class to the aristocratic Upperclass with all the layers in-between. (Therefor you have the working class english dialects, the middle class English language -maybe the most wide spoken English- and the Upperclass sophisticated Oxford and Camebridge English. And next to that the regional and country varieties, like Scottish, the Gaylic Welsh language and for instance the Yorkshire dialect or regional language, next to more regional languages or accents in England). A pleasant fact from our present democratic, Free, equal and progressive, liberal and conservative societies is the fact that everyone is equal at birth, equal in opportunities, but not equal in how much we work and make something of our lives.
The Western world is still democratic and free, and one of the things of a Democracy is the fact that you have free debate, processes of change and the fact that societies and countries don' stay the same but gradually change in time. And thus traditions, customs and ideas change too. Some black, colored and white people don't take Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet (Black face 'Black Pete') for granted anymore and want to change that. If they would manage to find a majority against Black Pete in the Dutch society they would be able to change it, but in the present situation where you also have another white, black and colored majority in favor of Black Pete, the figure of Black Pete will be around for some time. But the times they are changing.
Cheers,
Pieter
|
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Aug 5, 2018 2:04:13 GMT -7
Karl.
I didn't knew about Julemanden, thank you for bringing it up. Thank you for reminding me of this rather new Danish tradition (quote Wiki: Julemanden is a relatively new phenomenon in Denmark, appearing some time after World War 2. )
Cheers,
Pieter
|
|
|
|
Post by karl on Aug 5, 2018 13:41:43 GMT -7
Karl. I didn't knew about Julemanden, thank you for bringing it up. Thank you for reminding me of this rather new Danish tradition (quote Wiki: Julemanden is a relatively new phenomenon in Denmark, appearing some time after World War 2. ) Cheers, Pieter Pieter You are very welcome, actually I had not thought of it until your presentation. Karl |
|
