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Post by Jaga on Aug 31, 2018 3:28:28 GMT -7
For months i was getting strange e-mail letters from my friend, about pope Francis and how bad he is for the church. The letter were full of venom and accusation against the pope as an antichrist. Here is some information how some conservative catholic media want to get rid of the current Pope which is considered too progressive. Strangely enough, they blame him for the cover up in catholic priest molestation cases. www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/08/29/a-vatican-diplomats-explosive-letter-reveals-influential-conservative-catholic-media-network/?utm_term=.8eac9eaf66b5Former Vatican ambassador’s explosive letter reveals influence of conservative Catholic media networkWay back when, you’d find C atholic newspapers distributed at the rear of your parish church, with articles that took a middle-of-the road approach to church issues and rarely made an aggressive challenge to the hierarchy.But news this week that Catholic journalists were involved in editing and distributing a Vatican diplomat’s explosive and largely unverified letter calling for the pope’s resignation reveals an influential and tightly knit conservative Catholic digital media network that’s been particularly active during the tenure of its nemesis, Pope Francis. [Former Vatican ambassador says Popes Francis, Benedict knew of sexual misconduct allegations against McCarrick for years] Like much of the media in our hyper-polarized, digital era, Catholic news sites have become deeply split between left and right. And these days, the dividing line is almost always what Francis says or does on almost anything, from global warming and tax cuts to the death penalty and increased acceptance of LGBT Catholics and the unmarried. So when Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò wanted to make a first-in-history public attack by a member of the Vatican on a sitting pope, he turned, naturally, to conservative sites such as LifeSiteNews.com and the National Catholic Register in the United States, as well as prominent conservative journalists in Italy who in recent years launched opinionated blogs on which they can vent about Francis. Much like the way in which Breitbart News and Drudge Report have served as media conduits for the brand of conservative American populism led by President Trump, conservative Catholic media outlets have become power players by conveying the anti-Francis point of view, this time becoming part of the story, as well. ... Viganò ultimately distributed his letter through a handful of conservative Catholic sites, including the Register, which is owned by the Alabama-based conglomerate EWTN, the Eternal Word Television Network. EWTN runs 11 round-the-clock networks that reach 270 million homes in 145 countries, according to its website. EWTN was launched in the early 1980s by nun-magnate Mother Angelica, who was a media visionary committed to promoting traditional social values. .... The National Catholic Register, Catholic News Agency and EWTN represent the center core of conservative Catholic media, with LifeSiteNews.com viewed as leaning more toward advocacy than journalism and ChurchMilitant.com even more so. ChurchMilitant is run by Michael Voris, a journalist who “carries a message of the need for a stalwart defense … of Catholic truth,” the site says. LifeSite was launched in the 1970s by a Canadian organization devoted to fighting “abortion, euthanasia, cloning, homosexuality” and other issues, its site says.
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Post by Jaga on Sept 2, 2018 22:26:04 GMT -7
Even 91 years old pope Benedict spoke against the current pope. The schism or some radical change in Catholic church is probably coming soon.www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-benedict-in-retired-seclusion-looms-in-the-opposition-to-pope-francis/2018/09/02/f4d262b2-aaca-11e8-9a7d-cd30504ff902_story.html?utm_term=.0660a3791101Pope Benedict, in retired seclusion, looms in the opposition to Pope FrancisAlthough many people hoped to hear from Benedict amid new allegations that a coverup of sexual misconduct reached the highest levels of the church, he has established that an ex-pope should maintain a vow of silence about church matters — even during crises and even though he is particularly well positioned to affirm or knock down the accusations. Some Vatican watchers and insiders say the mere fact of Benedict’s 2013 abdication has made the modern papacy more vulnerable, emboldening voices of dissent. They say it’s hard to imagine a letter like the one released last week by Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, provoking Pope Francis with a call to resign, without Benedict having created the possibility that modern popes might give up their seats before death. Try as he might to stay out of the fray, Benedict has been used as a symbol of resistance for a segment of traditionalists who oppose elements of Francis’s reformist papacy and see Benedict’s vision of Catholicism as more aligned with theirs. “He won’t stop the [Francis] revolution, but his presence reminds you — me, everyone — that another way is possible,” said Marcello Pera, a friend of Benedict and former president of the Italian Senate. Once known as “God’s Rottweiler,” Benedict was not embraced by Catholics worldwide during his eight-year pontificate. But he won admiration among those who respected the depth of his academic work and his conviction that church teachings shouldn’t bend with the times. At 91, Benedict still largely resembles the firm theologian who stepped down five years ago, when he leaned into a microphone, offered a brief message in Latin and shocked the Roman Catholic Church. He still dresses in papal white. He chose not to revert to his given name, Joseph Ratzinger. Friends say he is frail — he moves with the help of a walker — but he is mentally sharp. In a letter earlier this year to the Corriere della Sera, an Italian daily, he said he was “on a pilgrimage toward Home.” ... Viganò alleges that Benedict, in 2009 or 2010, privately levied sanctions on McCarrick — the former Archbishop of Washington and one of the most well-known figures in the U.S. church — after years of warnings about McCarrick’s sexual misconduct. The letter also said that Francis “did not take into account” those sanctions and instead made McCarrick his “trusted counselor.” Some elements of the account do not seem to hold up. The sanctions Viganò describes supposedly banned McCarrick from travel and public meetings, but McCarrick continued to speak regularly and travel overseas.
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Post by pieter on Sept 3, 2018 9:07:11 GMT -7
Jaga, I think that it is time for a thorough reform in the church. That there should be a change in the system of the church, the stuctures, organisation, the way the hierarchy behaves, and maybe the church should investigate the beginning of christianity when Jezus Christ lived with his twelve apostles. The Great Commission, the instruction of the resurrected Jesus Christ to his disciples to spread his teachings to all the nations of the world. Many former christian nations have become secular, atheïst, materialistic, empty, hollow shells in the spiritual sense. The abuse within the church shows that the institution, powerbase, materialism, lust, decadence, hedonism, contempt for human lives and suffering of fellow human beings has greatly damaged the original message, core values and the essence of the christian faith and church. That is why the Bohemian Hussite, Lutheran and Calvinist reformations took place and why Desiderius Erasmus criticized the Roman Catholic church from within. Desiderius ErasmusDesiderius Erasmus, (born October 27, 1469, Rotterdam, Holland [now in the Netherlands]—died July 12, 1536, Basel, Switzerland), Dutch humanist who was the greatest scholar of the northern Renaissance, the first editor of the New Testament, and also an important figure in patristics and classical literature. Using the philological methods pioneered by Italian humanists, Erasmus helped lay the groundwork for the historical-critical study of the past, especially in his studies of the Greek New Testament and the Church Fathers. His educational writings contributed to the replacement of the older scholastic curriculum by the new humanist emphasis on the classics. By criticizing ecclesiastical abuses, while pointing to a better age in the distant past, he encouraged the growing urge for reform, which found expression both in the Protestant Reformation and in the Catholic Counter-Reformation. Finally, his independent stance in an age of fierce confessional controversy—rejecting both Luther’s doctrine of predestination and the powers that were claimed for the papacy—made him a target of suspicion for loyal partisans on both sides and a beacon for those who valued liberty more than orthodoxy. The church should reformed in the sense of it's human structure in which more social control, empathis on selfdisciplin, and a safe church environment for children, teenagers and women should exist. Keep some good elements, traditions, values and spiritualism and mystic elements, but get rid of the rotten aspects, elements, structures and power abuse, physical abuse and sexual abuse. The church should be safe again and the church should look at Protestant churches where you have married ministers or Reverends. Is celibacy absolutely necessary or can we have other formes of community, organisation, priesthood, lithurgy and biblical thruths and the 10 commandments. The Roman Catholic church should look at Catholic social teaching, the Catholic doctrines on matters of human dignity and common good in society. According to Pope Benedict XVI, its purpose "is simply to help purify reason and to contribute, here and now, to the acknowledgment and attainment of what is just. ... [The church] has to play her part through rational argument and she has to reawaken the spiritual energy without which justice ... cannot prevail and prosper", According to Pope John Paul II, its foundation "rests on the threefold cornerstones of human dignity, solidarity and subsidiarity". The principle of Catholic social teaching is the correct view of the human person. "Being in the image of God, the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give." Individual Catholics are also required to practice spiritual and corporal works of mercy. Corporal works of mercy include feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, taking care of the sick and visiting those in prison. Spiritual works require the Catholic to share their knowledge with others, comfort those who suffer, have patience, forgive those who hurt them, give advice and correction to those who need it, and pray for the living and the dead. I think that the Roman Catholic church needs a time of 'healing', reform, transformation, progress, christian humanism, Communitarianism, social action, togetherness, team building, community building, Catholic grassroots building, an energy of Catholic activism and the Roman Catholic church has to open itself and be less isolationalist, directed outwards instaid of inwards. If the church doesn't change and take action it will face mass secularisation in the West, empty churches and angry former Roman-Catholic believers and members who leave the church due to the sexual-, physical- and mental abuse in the church during many decades and maybe hundreds of years. There must be a climate inside the church which is intolerant towards paedophilia, child abuse and abuse of power and influence in general. There is darkness and there are dark places in the church, and it is time to bring light, clarity, openess and healing to these places, We can't undo the injustices (abuse) of the past but we can try to stop the abuse in the present and in the future. CommunitarianismCommunitarianism is a philosophy that emphasizes the connection between the individual and the community. Its overriding philosophy is based upon the belief that a person's social identity and personality are largely molded by community relationships, with a smaller degree of development being placed on individualism. Although the community might be a family, communitarianism usually is understood, in the wider, philosophical sense, as a collection of interactions, among a community of people in a given place (geographical location), or among a community who share an interest or who share a history. Communitarianism usually opposes extreme individualism and disagrees with extreme laissez-faire policies that neglect the stability of the overall community.
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Post by pieter on Sept 3, 2018 10:02:10 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Sept 3, 2018 10:19:12 GMT -7
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Post by kaima on Sept 3, 2018 21:06:58 GMT -7
Certainly it is terrible to have a major world institution for moral life and behavior caught up in such a terrible scandal as child sexual abuse. But to have it so widespread and at the depth that the current accusations appear to take it is scandalous and call into question the continued existence of the institution. It seems that major reform and change is necessary if the church is to ever recover its moral strength and position of leadership. It is interesting to consider where and why and how the accusations against the Pope himself are stemming. With his efforts underway to reform, there is good motivation for conservative members to bring him down to stifle his programs of reform. Once this scandal - these scandals - are resolved hopefully the church can get back to performing its beneficial functions. I do keep in mind that in the 1980's we had nationwide scandals in America when it seemed child care providers were sexually abusing children in their care. After much more than a year it seems some, but not all, of the focus shifted to implanted false memories, power of suggestion and hysteria, much like the Salem Witch trials of centuries ago in which many innocents were accused and executed. "outcomes of high profile day care sexual abuse cases of the 1980s :MCMARTIN PRESCHOOL (Manhattan Beach, CA; 1986) Background: In August 1983, Ray Buckey, a teacher at the preschool founded by his grandmother, Virginia McMartin, was accused of sexually abusing a 2-year-old boy. Buckey was released due to lack of evidence, and police wrote letters to notify 200 parents of children who attended the school of the allegation. Upon questioning from their parents and therapists, the children accused not only Ray, but his sister Peggy Ann, and other teachers of sexual abuse. The children also described bizarre satanic rituals in which the McMartins mutilated animals in hidden underground tunnels beneath the school. In 1984, Ray was rearrested, along with his sister, Peggy Ann, his mother, Peggy, an administrator at the school, his grandmother Virginia, and three other teachers. Outcome: Charges were dropped against Virginia, Peggy Ann and the other teachers in 1986 because of a lack of evidence. In April 1987, the trial of Ray and his mother Peggy began. It was to be the longest and most expensive criminal trial in U.S. history. Taped interviews of the children's testimony were shown to the jury. The trial ended in April 1989 with acquittals on some of the charges against Ray and a deadlocked jury on others. Peggy was acquitted on all counts. After the trial, members of the jury said that the videotapes of the children's testimony had prevented them from finding a guilty verdict, because although they thought the children might have been abused, they felt the children had been subjected to such suggestive interviewing, they could not discern what really had happened. In 1990, Ray was tried a second time and the jury deadlocked on all counts. The prosecutors decided not to retry the case. By the time the case was over, Ray had spent five years in jail and his mother Peggy had spent two." www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/fuster/lessons/outcomes.htmlLists and tells of other examples of the era. Kai
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Post by kaima on Sept 3, 2018 21:08:56 GMT -7
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Post by Jaga on Sept 3, 2018 23:09:09 GMT -7
Pieter,
I know where you are coming from. The problem is that not everybody has the same liberal views for church reforms you do, so the church would probably split. People in Poland are split... and young people don't want to go to the church anymore.
I like the idea of communitarianism
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Post by Jaga on Sept 3, 2018 23:10:40 GMT -7
Kai,
abuse in the church is bad... but as you said, these conservative forces just want to abolish this pope, who have no any more or any less responsibility for the abuse than majority of good men.
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Post by pieter on Sept 3, 2018 23:43:08 GMT -7
Pieter, I know where you are coming from. The problem is that not everybody has the same liberal views for church reforms you do, so the church would probably split. People in Poland are split... and young people don't want to go to the church anymore. I like the idea of communitarianism Jaga, That's why thank god I am not in charge of the church. I know both liberal and conservative Roman-Catholics in the Netherlands. I am not against the traditions, good things and teachings of the church, but against the closed, hierarchic, organisation which made the abuse possible. Now the focus is on the Roman-Catholic church as the largest christian church, but you have sexual abouse in all religious denominations and also in secular and atheist circles, like atheist families, sport clubs and wihtin companies, secular schools and etc. In my opinion reform and transformation of the church must go in line with it's roots, certain aspects which can't be changed and with mediation, counseling, a long difficult and hard process of negotiations, a lot of diplomacy between the different branches of the Roman-Catholic church and hopefully with the support and the lead of the present pope. Mediation, discussions, debate, difficult and sometimes painful intensive talks and intensive communication between conservtive and liberal Roman-Catholics is part of the process of reform and transformation. I think we must realise that power abuse and sexual abuse is a general problem in humanity. It is good that Kaima pointed at the false accusations. I remember that in the Netherlands there were cases of wrong accusations which destroyed carreers, lives and gave great mental difficulties to those who were falsely accused. Cheers, Pieter
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Post by Jaga on Sept 6, 2018 5:20:09 GMT -7
Pieter.
**In my opinion reform and transformation of the church must go in line with it's roots,***
yes, some tradition needs to be protected, although I don't like conservatists especially in Polish church. They are too extreme and hateful.
++I think we must realise that power abuse and sexual abuse is a general problem in humanity+++
yes, but it might be worse in the Carholic Church due to the status of priests who cannot have families
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