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Post by pieter on Jun 10, 2019 14:33:12 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 10, 2019 14:40:10 GMT -7
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Post by Jaga on Jun 10, 2019 21:31:34 GMT -7
Pieter, times changed. I understand that now there is enough of variety of products available so people don't need to eat meat in many countries. But think about all these people who were living in the North with long winters and no any other source of food was available. Besides, not all vitamins are available from vegetables, fruit and grain. Nowadays, I know more and more people, especially girls and young women who are vegetarians or vegans. I also believe that from many reasons we should limit amount of meat, still... it is not always possible.
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Post by kaima on Jun 10, 2019 21:53:56 GMT -7
Pieter, times changed. I understand that now there is enough of variety of products available so people don't need to eat meat in many countries. But think about all these people who were living in the North with long winters and no any other source of food was available. Besides, not all vitamins are available from vegetables, fruit and grain. Nowadays, I know more and more people, especially girls and young women who are vegetarians or vegans. I also believe that from many reasons we should limit amount of meat, still... it is not always possible. Jaga, All a vegan is missing in nutrition is vitamin B 12. Otherwise they can get all the nutrition they need from vegetables. There have been endurance runners - winning runners - who are vegan. Then vegetarians have life easier, they can opt into more conventional foods as well. Kai
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Post by pieter on Jun 11, 2019 0:53:30 GMT -7
Kai,
So Vegetarians and Vegans can live without eating animals and just buy and use B 12 vitamin pills? But I wonder if there are B 12 vitamin pills which are produced without animal components in it? If there is an artificially made B 12 pill without animal components in it the problem for vegetarians and vegans would be solved. They can live without meat.B12 is the most chemically complex of all the vitamins. The structure of B12 is based on a corrin ring, which is similar to the porphyrin ring found in heme. The central metal ion is cobalt. Four of the six coordination sites are provided by the corrin ring (a heterocyclic compound), and a fifth by a dimethylbenzimidazole group. The sixth coordination site, the reactive center, is variable, being a cyano group (–CN), a hydroxyl group (–OH), a methyl group (–CH3) or a 5′-deoxyadenosyl group (here the C5′ atom of the deoxyribose forms the covalent bond with cobalt respectively, to yield the four vitamers (forms) of B12. Historically, the covalent C-Co bond is one of the first examples of carbon-metal bonds to be discovered in biology. The hydrogenases and, by necessity, enzymes associated with cobalt utilization, involve metal-carbon bonds.
The corrin ring
Vitamin B12 is a generic descriptor name referring to a collection of cobalt and corrin ring molecules which are defined by their particular vitamin function in the body. All of the substrate cobalt-corrin molecules from which B12 is made must be synthesized by bacteria. After this synthesis is complete, the human body has the ability (except in rare cases) to convert any form of B12 to an active form, by means of enzymatically removing certain prosthetic chemical groups from the cobalt atom and replacing them with others.Cheers, PieterSource: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12 / www.britannica.com/science/vitamin-B12
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Post by kaima on Jun 11, 2019 7:22:45 GMT -7
Kai,
So Vegetarians and Vegans can live without eating animals and just buy and use B 12 vitamin pills? But I wonder if there are B 12 vitamin pills which are produced without animal components in it? If there is an artificially made B 12 pill without animal components in it the problem for vegetarians and vegans would be solved. They can live without meat.Cheers, PieterSource: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12 / www.britannica.com/science/vitamin-B12 I have never looked into the chemical structure of B 12 before Pieter! Seeing that renews my respect for chemists and the scientists that work with the structure of our world. Yes, my life has been very involved with a vegan for several years now, and last year we took on the challenge of traveling around Europe together, "The Vegan and the Omnivore". We managed it quite successfully, carrying a supply of food for those odd times in travel when you are far from a food store or restaurant and the body requires nutrition. So we carried a supply of foods with us, and toward the end of our trip had to make a special effort to "eat up" the surplus foods before we flew home! Of course the vegan knows how deadly sugar is to the human body, but she was willing to sacrifice principles when it came to testing the world famous pastries and torts of Budapest and Vienna - in moderation, of course! The most pleasant surprise was confirmation that the "hole in the wall" schnell imbiss" or ubiquitous street side / store front restaurants supplied us with enough high quality, fresh foods that they became a standard for our eating. I first became aware of these in Germany with the Turkish "fast food" restaurants and confirmed it last year in our travels, because Judith is NOT about to compromise the quality of food. It was great to step in and say "vegitarier" and no matter what the middle Eastern background of the host, they understood and could be trusted to point out the four or five or more choices to choose from! In the mean time I could step over to the "meat" side of the selection, and the brother would assemble whatever I chose. We were never disappointed in the half dozen countries we did this in. That is a great contribution the Middle Eastern citizens of Europe have contributed to the culture. Certainly this is in great contrast to some of the "standard Central European" fare I have had in Germany and elsewhere where South American or Spanish friends would quietly complain of the heavy foods and the grease contained in some of the dishes (happily this was rare, but did occur!) Well, in 10 hours I will be on the Over the Pole flight to Europe. Germany, Poland, Slovakia Ukraine and Budapest are on the menu this time. I will have only my 'smart phone' for electronic contact, so will be posting even less and shorter notes, when I do write! )over the Pole. Last year we reached 82 degrees north. I am curious what we will fly to this year. It is shocking how little of the Polar Ice cap exists any more, but it is quite a thrill to fly over Ellesmere Island and Greenland!). Kai
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Post by kaima on Jun 11, 2019 7:32:43 GMT -7
The thing to do is to search for "Blue zones" and "Loma Linda" for the benefits of vegan lifestyle, or at leas vegetarian, both of which rank above "minimal meat eater" and "meat eater" for long life and healthy life. By chance I heard of the vegitarian nutrition conference loma linda and jumped at the chance to attend. Although I have always eaten normal, conventional foods, I have always been curious about the REAL science behind nutrition, as there is so much nonsense and quasi-science with all of the diets and fads that come and go in our society. So when I heard of the conference on Vegetarian Nutrition, I jumped at the chance to attend, and reveled in days of listening to world class scientists tell us what they knew, what long-term studies tell them, and what are the limits of what they know, and the grey areas of knowledge that they must still explore. It was a great experience with wonderful, hospitable people. news.llu.edu/outreach/international-vegetarian-nutrition-congress-highlights-plant-based-nutrition
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