|
Post by pieter on Jan 11, 2020 4:59:31 GMT -7
Poland may have to leave EU, Supreme Court warnsProtesters have rallied in towns and cities across Poland in support of the country's judges (Getty images)Poland[/font could have to leave the EU over its judicial reform proposals, the country's Supreme Court has warned.
The proposals would allow judges to be dismissed if they questioned the government's judicial reforms.
Judges say the proposals threaten the primacy of EU law and could be an attempt to gag the judiciary.
Poland has already been referred to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) regarding rules for judges.
Under the proposals put forward by the socially conservative Law and Justice party government, judges can be punished for engaging in "political activity".
Any judge that questioned the legitimacy of judges nominated by the National Council of the Judiciary could be handed a fine or in some cases dismissed.
Politicians start discussing the proposals in december.
The ruling party claims changes to the law are needed to tackle corruption and overhaul the judicial system, which it says is still haunted by the communist era. But the EU accused Law and Justice (PiS) of politicising the judiciary since it came to power in 2015.
The Supreme Court said the party was undermining the principle of the primacy of EU law over national law. It said in a statement: "Contradictions between Polish and EU law.... will in all likelihood lead to an intervention by EU institutions regarding an infringement of EU treaties, and in the longer run [will lead to] the need to leave the European Union."
It also said the proposed bill was "evidently" designed to allow President Andrzej Duda to pick a new head of the court before a presidential election which is expected in May.
The court's chief justice, Professor Malgorzata Gersdorf, likened the governing party's proposals to the days of martial law in 1981 in communist Poland.
"I would therefore ask that the hatred of judges and courts stops being used as a weapon in the struggle for power, especially since repression, as in 1981, would be a sad expression of powerlessness rather than a manifestation of strength," she wrote in a statement on the court's website.
Polish judges are nominated by the National Judicial Council (NCJ), a body that is supposed to safeguard the independence of the judiciary, and which until recently consisted of a majority of judges selected by their peers.
However, in 2018 the ruling party changed the law so that the majority of judges sitting on the NCJ were appointed by the lower house of parliament, which is controlled by Prawo i Sprawiedliwość (the Law and Justice Party, PiS).
Poland's NCJ had its membership of the European Network of Councils for the Judiciary suspended on the grounds it was no longer politically independent.
Earlier devember 2019, Poland saw thousands of people protest in cities and towns to show solidarity with judges who they said were facing intimidation. They called for the reinstatement of one judge, Pawel Juszczyszyn, who was dismissed from his post for questioning the appointment of another judge by the NCJ.
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 11, 2020 5:02:05 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 11, 2020 5:02:51 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 11, 2020 5:15:55 GMT -7
I december 2019
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 11, 2020 6:13:09 GMT -7
Dutch Broadcast FoundationPolish judges argue against government, with strong support from colleagues from EUPolish judges are taking to the streets in Warsaw today to protest the government. They fear for their independence. Following a call from the Polish Judiciary Association, colleagues from twenty other countries, including the Netherlands, came to the silent journey.
Judges are not allowed to speak out publicly in Poland. "That is precisely why there is a demonstration, precisely because the government does not tolerate contradiction and does not want to hear dissident sounds," said correspondent Wouter Zwart in the NOS Radio 1 Journal.
Marc Fierstra, judge at the Supreme Court in the Netherlands, also travels to Warsaw. "We are going to Poland because the judges there run a huge risk with this demonstration. We want to show that colleagues from all over Europe support them. Judges are very involved in maintaining the independence of colleagues around the world, and that is all the more true stronger for judges in the EU. "
Marc Fierstra, judge at the Supreme Court in the Netherlands, travelled to Warsaw to support his Polish colleagues
Fierstra has a lot of contact with Polish colleagues. "I hear that they are extremely worried and afraid of everything that happens there," he says. "They are put under pressure by all kinds of disciplinary measures to make decisions that are considered correct by the government and by the supervisory bodies."Poland and the European CommissionPoland must comply with EU rules. The EU has long believed that the PiS government party is breaking the rule of law and putting democracy at risk.
European Commissioner Timmermans activated Article 7 last year, with which the European Commission started criminal proceedings against the country. This means that Poland can lose all kinds of voting rights. Hungary, which has a similar discussion with the EU, opposes, along with a few other countries, the procedure against Poland.
Many Poles believe that the government is weakening the rule of law. "Since the PiS party has been in power, judges have been pressured to follow the party line," said Zwart. "Judges who do not do so are intimidated, transferred, buried under work and an attempt has been made to send dissident judges to an early retirement."
The PiS has set up a disciplinary chamber to judge judges on their ethical conduct. "The problem is that the disciplinary chamber consists exclusively of judges who fully support the government," says Zwart. "According to the Disciplinary Court, judges would now form a cartel, a sort of caste of influential lawyers who all know each other from Communism and who hold each other's head above each other."
According to Judge Fierstra, such a disciplinary court can influence court cases. "Since its introduction, 1100 proceedings have been brought against judges. These are all proceedings that could result in those judges being put at a disadvantage in their careers or even being fired. It also means that judges are afraid of being confronted with such proceedings. and think about the decisions they make. "
With its participation in the protest, Fierstra wants to make it clear that everyone stands for the rule of law. "That we find that important and that it is a shared European value that cannot simply be compromised. And that the cooperation with other European judges is under pressure from all the rules."Law graduates Milena (L) and Karolina of the Jagiellonian University in Krakow during a demonstration in 2017: “NEXT TO REFORM: THE LAST JUDGEMENT” demonstration in 2017 Source: Translated from Dutch by Pieter with Google translate. Link to the original article: nos.nl/artikel/2318177-poolse-rechters-betogen-tegen-regering-veel-steun-van-collega-s-uit-eu.html
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Jan 11, 2020 6:26:42 GMT -7
Tumultuous times we live in! I hope democracy (as free self government) survives. We have our dangers in the USA as well with our current administration and the one party marching in lock step with Trump and Fox.
Kai
|
|
|
Post by karl on Jan 11, 2020 11:54:44 GMT -7
Pieter What my self have to say, is not a mark against your self or others of our membership. For to stay silent would be agreement of which my self am not in agreement with what ever as declared in the statement of: Supreme Court {EU} of: Poland may have to leave the EU. In implied meaning that if Poland will not abide by the requirement of EU membership, it will be expelled against its wishes out of the EU. The above is not true, for the EU Supreme Court has not this power under Artical 7 of the Treaty of The European Union. It is only a procedure in the Treaties of The European Union to suspend certain rights from a Member State. Whilst rights can be suspended, there is no mechanism to expel a member. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_7_of_the_Treaty_on_European_Unionwww.dw.com/en/what-is-article-7-of-the-eu-treaty/a-41876855My self have no vested interest in Polish affairs for this is an internal matter that is of Polish alone. But then, the rule of law must and needs be attended to for the maintenance and protection of the Democratic way of life enjoyed by the Polish people. Karl
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 11, 2020 17:01:02 GMT -7
Karl,
I do believe that the European Union is a Union that was erected in the first place for economical, financial, trade and political reasons, and only when it developed itself from the initial European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) (1952–2002), via the Treaty of Rome in 1957, the European Economic Community and European Atomic Energy Community, and finally to the the EU of today. In all these years next to the Trade, economical, financial, monetary and political reasons behind it the European Union, became more and more a European community of nations in which European values, Freedom and democracy, legalism ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Western_philosophy) ), European legislation, European security cooperation, European agricultural policies (the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP)), European Infrastructural projects, European Institutions in Brussels, Luxemburg city and Strasbourg, the Structural Funds and the Cohesion Fund, the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and the European Social Fund (ESF), the European Social Fund (ESF), the European Agricultural Guarantee Fund (EAGF), the Cohesion Policy (the regional policy of the European Union (EU), a policy with the stated aim of improving the economic well-being of regions in the EU and also to avoid regional disparities), Europol (the European Union Agency for Law Enforcement Cooperation), the European Committee for Standardization (CEN), the European Economic Area (EEA) and the European Defence Agency (EDA) began to play a role and formed the collective body of the EU.
Ursula Gertrud von der Leyen (born 8 October 1958) is a German politician and the President of the European Commission since 1 December 2019. She served in the federal government of Germany from 2005 to 2019 as the longest-serving member of Angela Merkel's cabinet. She is a member of the centre-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and its EU counterpart, the European People's Party (EPP).
The EU is a value community of European member states in which shared values as Freedom, Democracy, rule of law, Trias Politica (Separation of Powers), Human rights, European identity, European Unity, European solidarity, Human Rights, European heritage, European democracy (The European Parliament), European legislation, the Schengen Agreement (Open borders), the Shengen Area, security cooperation, European education (the Erasmus Programme (EuRopean Community Action Scheme for the Mobility of University Students), and European political cooperation play an important role. Due to shared democratic and legal values, ethics, respect for Human rights, the importance of Freedom of gathering, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of organisation and gathering and the importance of the principle of 'The Separation of Powers' (Trias Politica) which forms the core of Freedom and Democracy the EU can criticize, call upon and warn member states if the Union thinks or believes that a member state moves to the fringes of democracy. Some member states in my opinion moved to the edges of democracy and are in the middle between a democratic state and an autocratic state. Federica Mogherini (born 16 June 1973) is an Italian politician who served as High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy and Vice-President of the European Commission since November 2014 to November 2019. Use against Poland of Article 7 of the Treaty on European UnionFrom the end of 2015, the Polish government became subject to international criticism over its media and judiciary changes and the European Commission began action against Poland in January 2016. On 20 December 2017, the European Commission triggered Article 7 for the first time in relation to Polish judicial reforms because, in the view of the Commission, they remove the separation of powers between the executive and the judiciary. "After two years, the Commission can only conclude that there is now a clear risk of a serious breach of the rule of law," Vice President Frans Timmermans added. Any action to deprive Poland of its voting rights would require a unanimous vote of its fellow member states. As of December 2017, Hungary would be expected to exercise its veto in Poland's favour.Franciscus Cornelis Gerardus Maria Timmermans (born 6 May 1961) is a Dutch politician and diplomat nominated as Executive Vice President-Designate of the European Commission from 2019. He currently serves as First Vice-President and European Commissioner for Better Regulation, Interinstitutional Relations, the Rule of Law and the Charter of Fundamental Rights from 2014 to 2019.The Constitutional Tribunal annulled legislation passed by Poland’s right-leaning government on Wednesday 9 March 2016.EU's position towards member statesDonald Franciszek Tusk (born 22 April 1957) is a Polish politician, who was the president of the European Council from 2014 to 2019. He served as the prime minister of Poland from 2007 to 2014 and was a co-founder and chairman of the Civic Platform (Platforma Obywatelska) political party. On 20 November 2019, Tusk was elected as the president of the European People's Party (EPP), Europe's largest transnational political party.If a state becomes a one party state, a authoritarian state under the rule of one dominant president, or a dictatorship, totalitarian state, police state or military dictatorship, then the EU can take measures, because they EU is a value community based on democratic and European principles.
The EU is based on a series of treaties. These first established the European Community and the EU, and then made amendments to those founding treaties. These are power-giving treaties which set broad policy goals and establish institutions with the necessary legal powers to implement those goals. These legal powers include the ability to enact legislation[q] which can directly affect all member states and their inhabitants.[r] The EU has legal personality, with the right to sign agreements and international treaties.
Under the principle of supremacy, national courts are required to enforce the treaties that their member states have ratified, and thus the laws enacted under them, even if doing so requires them to ignore conflicting national law, and (within limits) even constitutional provisions.Jean-Claude Juncker (born 9 December 1954) is a Luxembourg politician, who served as President of the European Commission from 2014 to 2019 and as the 23rd Prime Minister of Luxembourg from 1995 to 2013. He was also the Minister for Finances from 1989 to 2009.Fundamental rightsThe treaties declare that the EU itself is "founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities ... in a society in which pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity and equality between women and men prevail."ActsThe main legal acts of the EU come in three forms: regulations, directives, and decisions. Regulations become law in all member states the moment they come into force, without the requirement for any implementing measures,[w] and automatically override conflicting domestic provisions.[q] Directives require member states to achieve a certain result while leaving them discretion as to how to achieve the result. The details of how they are to be implemented are left to member states.[x] When the time limit for implementing directives passes, they may, under certain conditions, have direct effect in national law against member states.ImpactThe European Union has had a significant positive economic impact on member states. According to a 2019 study of the member states who joined from 1973 to 2004, "without European integration, per capita incomes would have been, on average, approximately 10% lower in the first ten years after joining the EU."
The European Union has contributed to peace in Europe, in particular by pacifying border disputes.
The European Union has contributed to the spread of democracy, in particular by encouraging democratic reforms in aspiring member states.
Cheers, Pieter
|
|
|
Post by karl on Jan 11, 2020 18:05:55 GMT -7
Pieter
First may I apologize for initial confusion of entering my reply under J.J. of which my self have taken the liberty of correction to your self..
All that you have replied as also with corrosponding supporting videos of which I totally agree with. Perhaps it is my self with such a strong mindset of Freedom, Democracy and rule of law that I must speak for. With this, the strong sense of seporation of power between state and religion, we do not need another thirty years war.
Yes, the EU as we know it, has matured, under test in past and continuing to the present as exampled by the actions of both the Polish and Hungarian Governments. And yes, the EU is a value community of member European States. But, what was not envisioned in the beginning, was what and how to deal with a member state that has gone rogue against these principals they in the first signed in to support such as we are now witnessed to such as present day Poland and Hungary, with this, Turkey is not that far off centre but fringing.
Yes, as with above, The EU has and is a legal personality with the right to sign agreements and International Treaties as supported by the rule of law. But, in as much as it will not confront Article 7 as it exist. But as written, The EU carries the burden of responsibility, in as well how else to bring in to line conformability to such erring states as fore mentioned. That is if Artical 7 is modified to comform to the event of barring a member state out of the EU.
Karl
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 11, 2020 19:47:20 GMT -7
Karl, A very good and pragmatic reply. We are on the same page here as European democrats who respect pluriformity, diversity, the rights of minorities, but also respect for the democratic rule of the majority vote that decides who will form the government for the next 4 years. I completely agree with you that we don't need another Thirty Years' War (1618 – 1648) ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War ), nor an Eighty Years' War (1568–1648) ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years%27_War ), First World War (1914-1918), nor another Polish Russian War ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War ), Second World War (1939-1945) and nor another Bosnian War (1992 – 1995). But we know from the past that politics and relations between nations and borders can be unpredictable. Wars, civil wars and terrorism can erupt, arrive or hit fast and quick like a sudden storm that comes up without warning. We live in a strange world, with strange groups, strange sects, strange organised crime organisations, strange ideologies, strange political parties, strange movements, strange fractions and strange individuals. We can't predict tomorrow nor next year or 2030. Different ideologies might merge to one new ideology, which might encourage people to build new grassroots movements, erect new political parties and build new political structures, think tanks, party cells, departments and fractions. This can be in the constructive, positive, human, progressive, and good sense, and it can be in the negative, destructive or dark, sinister, obscurantist and extreme sense. Thank god there are more Europeans like you with such a strong mindset of Freedom, Democracy and rule of law. Conservatives (Tories/Conservatives in the UK), Christian Democrats (CDU-CSU), classical liberals (FDP, VVD, Venstre, .Nowoczesna), Social Democrats (SPD, PvdA, Socialdemokraterne), Social Liberals (Det Radikale Venstre, Liberal Democrats [UK], D66) and people of the Green Parties (Bündnis 90/Die Grünen, GroenLinks, Alternativet, Partia Zieloni [Poland], and Les Verts in France) who also believe in Freedom, Democracy and rule of law next to ecology, animal rights and social justice. And that is a good countervailing power for the Rightwing Populists, Nationalists, Neo-fascists/Neo-Nazi's, Islamists, leftwing extremist Marxist-Leninist communists and Black bloc Anarchist Autonomen (radical left Antifa), totalitarian sectarian movements (The Church of Scientology), enovironmental extremists, organised crime and other extremist groups that oppose Freedom, pluriformity, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of gathering, freedom op opinion, minority rights, Human rights, equality, liberal European values, Social Democracy, Christian democracy, moderate conservatism, the separation of powers (Trias Politica: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers ), christianity and humanism. Cheers, Pieter
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on Jan 11, 2020 20:33:00 GMT -7
Polish courts were really corrupted. What PIS done is not good, but I was always skeptical towards people who form close-tight communities like judges. I hope like Kai that in the current biased political situation Poland will stay in the EU. There are so many problems in the world now, even French have their problems with police brutality at riots and they are the main force behind the EU.
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 12, 2020 8:16:09 GMT -7
Jaga,
I do believe you when you say that Polish courts were corrupted, but also other institutions and parts of the society. I remember the news articles and essays from the nineties about corruption and state bureaucracy during the nineties. Interesting fact is that the Dutch journalist and historian with a lot of central- and Eastern-European connections with former dissidents and intelligentsia, said in the serious professional political and news program Buitenhof ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buitenhof_(TV_series) ) that for instance Hungary is moving towards a dictatorship with elements of an authoritarian society like you had in some European nations during the twenties, but specifically said that Poland today is not corrupt. With his knowledge about Western-Europe, the USA,,Central-Europe and Eastern Europe (Russia/Ukraine) he said, 'Ypu can say a lot of present day Poland, but not that it is a corrupt country.' He was concerned from his point of view that the Polish government is trying to change the legal system and remove the 'Separation of Powers' (Trias Politica) principle. The Trias Politica ModelThe separation of powers is a model for the governance of a state which is quite common in Democratic, parliamentarian republics and monarchies. Under this model, a state's government is divided into branches, each with separate and independent powers and areas of responsibility so that the powers of one branch are not in conflict with the powers associated with the other branches. The typical division is into three branches: a legislature, an executive, and a judiciary, which is the trias politica model. It can be contrasted with the fusion of powers in parliamentary systems and semi-presidential systems where the executive and legislative branches overlap.
Separation of powers, therefore, refers to the division of responsibilities into distinct branches of government to limit any one branch from exercising the core functions of another. The intent of separation of powers is to prevent the concentration of unchecked power by providing for checks and balances.
The separation of powers model is often imprecisely and metonymically used interchangeably with the trias politica principle. While the trias politica model is a common type of model, there are governments which utilise bipartite, rather than tripartite, systems as mentioned later in the article.Czech RepublicIt take the example of the Czech Republic, Polish South Western neighbour and a good example of a modern democracy with the trias politica model (Separation of Powers) in action. The *Constitution of the Czech Republic, adopted in 1992 immediately before the dissolution of Czechoslovakia, establishes the traditional tripartite division of powers and continues the tradition of its predecessor constitutions. The **Czechoslovak Constitution of 1920, which replaced the provisional constitution adopted by the newly independent state in 1918, was modeled after the constitutions of established democracies such as those of the United Kingdom, United States and France, and maintained this division, as have subsequent changes to the constitution that followed in 1948 with the Ninth-of-May Constitution, the 1960 Constitution of Czechoslovakia as well as the Constitutional Act on the Czechoslovak Federation of 1968.
- *"Constitution of the Czech Republic". Parliament of the Czech Republic. Archived from the original on 30 May 2012. ( web.archive.org/web/20120530041428/http://www.psp.cz/cgi-bin/eng/docs/laws/1993/1.html ) - ** "The 1920 Constitution – 90th anniversary of the adoption of the first Czechoslovak Constitution". The Office of the Government of the Czech Republic. ( www.vlada.cz/en/media-centrum/aktualne/constitution-1920-68721/ )GermanyThe Western neighbour of Poland has it's own form of trias politica. The three branches in German government are further divided into six main bodies enshrined in the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany:
- Federal President (Bundespräsident) – formally executive, but mainly representative in daily politics - Federal Cabinet (Bundesregierung) – executive - Federal Diet (Bundestag) & Federal Council (Bundesrat) – bicameral legislative - Federal Assembly (Bundesversammlung) – presidential electoral college (consisting of the members of the Bundestag and electors from the constituent states) - Federal Constitutional Court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) – judiciary - Besides the constitutional court the judicial branch at the federal level is made up of five supreme courts—one for civil and criminal cases (Bundesgerichtshof), and one each for administrative, tax, labour, and social security issues. There are also state (Länder / Bundesländer) based courts beneath them, and a rarely used senate of the supreme courts.PolandPoland itself is a Western democracy, a Republic and a country with it's own Polish system and way of doing things. By the turn of the 21st century, Poland was a market-based democracy, abundant in products of all kinds and a member of both NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) and the European Union (EU), allied more strongly with western Europe than with eastern Europe but, as always, squarely between them.
The new constitution of 1997, which replaced a 1992 interim constitution, was adopted in April by the National Assembly (Zgromadzenie Narodowe; as the Sejm and the Senate are referred to when they meet in a joint session to debate constitutional issues), approved in a national referendum in May, and promulgated in October. The constitution confirmed the mixed presidential-parliamentary form of government that had been established during the period 1989–92. Under its provisions the president is directly elected to not more than two five-year terms. The president serves as commander in chief of the armed forces, has the power (albeit restricted) to declare martial law or a state of emergency, and can veto an act of the Sejm (which in turn can override that veto with a three-fifths majority vote).
The Polish president nominates the prime minister and, on the prime minister’s recommendation, the cabinet, subject to the Sejm’s approval, but the president cannot dismiss the government. Deputies in the Sejm and senators are popularly elected to four-year terms. Laws must be adopted by both houses. The Senate has the right to amend or reject a law passed by the Sejm. The Sejm may override the Senate’s decision with a majority vote. The Sejm appoints the members of the Constitutional Tribunal, the commissioner for civil rights protection (the ombudsman), the chairman of the Supreme Chamber of Control (the state audit commission), and the president of the Bank of Poland. The main executive power is vested in the prime minister and the Council of Ministers, who are responsible to the Sejm. The government can be terminated by the Sejm only by a constructive vote of no confidence. The prime minister has a role comparable to that of a chancellor in the German political system.JusticeThe Polish constitution guarantees the independence of the judiciary. The supreme representative of the judiciary is the National Council of the Judiciary. Poland has a Supreme Court and other special judicial bodies (including the High Administrative Court, military courts, and industrial tribunals) as well as general courts, comprising appellate, provincial, and district courts. General courts deal with criminal, civil, and family matters; commercial courts deal with civil law disputes between businesses. The Constitutional Tribunal provides judicial review of legislation. The Tribunal of State reviews violations of the constitution and other laws by the top state officials. A problem with previous governments and especially with the present administration is that the government wants to end the independence of the judiciary, by appointing political judges. To say it more clearly, national conservative, Prawo i Sprawiedliwość, Judges. Judges that follow the present right-wing populist, nationalistic and xenophobic administration. By doing so the government ends the independence of the judiciary, and strengthens the state Bureaucracy, state control, and decreases Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Opinion, Freedom of gathering and objective, neutral, fact finding, truth seeking justice. Unfortunately this seems to be a Polish tradition that exists since the Czarist, Prussian and Austrian rulers during the partition of Poland with their Russification and Germanisation polices, the Sanacja regime (1926–1939), the Nazi and Sovjet occupations of Poland and the time of the Polish Peoples Republic (1947 - 1989), and various rightwing (Civic Platform + PSL) and leftwing (SLD+PSL) government coalitions. A rightwing leaning Pole reacted in the Economist as follows in Jul 20th 2017, 13:48Majority of Poles support reform of courts, and the ruling Law and Justice maintains steady support well over the total opposition Civic Platform and Nowoczesna combined. Poland had very bad justice system, and unusual system where judges and lawyers were practically uncontrollable by the society and parliament, government or the president - all the high positions were chosen and answerable to other judges. This is, in opinion of many Poles, the result of the communist apparatchiks who build the law in 1989 never to be judged, and the reason of high-profile corruption scandals and high corruption in Poland. The implemented so-called 'dependent' judiciary in Poland parallels France and most other Western countries, where judges are nominated jointly by politicians and courts. Polish modified law is nevertheless less dependent than in Germany and Austria, for example, where judges of the highest instance are nominated by politicians. It is sad to hear foreigners parroting the self-proclaimed total opposition about Poland, while judiciary in their home countries follows much similar rules of nomination and control by politicians. Joshua TreeJul 20th 2017, 22:35 A SAD DEVELOPMENT . What's happenning in Poland is unbelievably sad for all those who've witnessed its long journey from communism to integration into the west. . I first travelled to Poland in 1992, the year the battered country had to apply for a bail-out from its international (western) creditors, witnessed its turbulent passage trough the post-communist wilderness of the 1990s, and ultimately lived and worked there for more than half a decade in the 2000s and 2010s while Poland was making good use of the new opportunities and westernized quickly. (I continue to visit the country for business nearly once a month). . Poland has been one of the largest success stories among the new eastern European EU members – and yet, it's political stabilization never quite kept up with its economic westernization. One of the key reasons usually given for this phenomenon is a widespread indifference towards politics primarily among the elites. . (1/2) Recommend75ReportPermalink Joshua Treein reply to Joshua TreeJul 20th 2017, 22:38 (2/2) . Of my Polish friends (nearly all university educated big-city dwellers) a majority hardly ever votes, and none is a member of a political party or ever ran for elective office. When it became obvious that PiS stood a chance of returning to power in 2015, most of them couldn't be bothered to hold their noses and vote for the lesser evil, PO, whose second term in office had been a disappointment to many. As a result, a better-organized and more driven minority won the election. A year and a half later, the devastating effects of this apathy are there for all to see. . With PiS now on the verge of illegally seizing control of all three branches of government, it will take a continuous and widespread effort to counter their monopoly on power. With their long history of revolts, the Poles should have what it takes to ultimately rid temselves of these new usurpers, even if it might take a while. . What must be painful is the realization that this time, Poles brought this misery upon temselves. . In the words of Olga Krzyżanowska, former liberal politician and vice-president of the Sejm: "This is the repetition of the worst years [under communism]. But then it was said that we Poles must obey the Soviets, that we were afraid of them. Now we don't have that excuse." ("To jest powtórka tych najgorszych lat [za komuny]. Ale wtedy mówiło się, że my, Polacy, musimy słuchać Sowietów, że się ich boimy. Teraz nie ma tej wymówki."). . weekend.gazeta.pl/weekend/1,152121,22115385,olga-krzyzanowska-pis... Recommend69ReportPermalink guest-aaassjwwJul 20th 2017, 21:17 This article is a collection of half-truths, selective reporting and other fallacies. For example: 'Polls show that 76% of Poles oppose a politicised judiciary' Maybe a single poll if asked 'do you prefer a politicized judiciary'. Polls in Poland are notoriously unreliable but if one thing is constant is that most Poles don't trust judiciary and demand reforms. This includes firms and businessmen. 'as the protests in Warsaw and other cities attested.' Protests are few thousands people. As PiS politician joked, not even if you collect all PO and Nowoczesna dignitaries in Warsaw. Two fallacies in one sentence. TE may be opinion newspaper, but should clearly state it is not the truth. Recommend58ReportPermalink from GdanskJul 20th 2017, 17:03 Nowhere else in Europe have judges enjoyed such privileges as in Poland. When communism fell, for reasons hard to explain and certainly impossible to justify, the communist judges were allowed to independently cleanse and reform themselves, as Adam Strzembosz famously said. Of course they did nothing of the sort, and quite naturally the pathology over the years got worse and worse. This is something most Poles, far more than would ever vote for Law and Justice, know. If you weren’t very rich, had no friends in high places, had no strings to pull, there was no point to look for justice in a Polish court. That’s why so many Poles traditionally appealed to international courts. The greatest victims have been the poorest, the loving parents deemed by the court to be too poor to look after their own children, the Polish woman whose estranged foreign husband remarkably wins custody of her child. Of course not all judges are like that, most are probably decent people, but within the closed corporation there is a hierarchy and it has been worst at the top. These people at the top have so far be able to decide which judge decides in which case. Thus the state is very hard on the lady who steals a snack bar, but a member of the fuel mafia, costing the taxpayer millions, will get off scot-free. And those top judges see no problem at all. In their own words they are “an extraordinary caste “, above and beyond the law. That’s why they so freely pronounce their personal views. Not only are there judges who like to drink-drive, others like to shoplift (rather curious, since they are highly paid) and so far they have not been punished for it. Therefore if the law is now changed so that cases for judges are selected randomly, if a body outside the corporation is created to discipline miscreant judges, if judges for the supreme court are elected by parliament by a 3 fifths majority (like in Spain), this can only, quite contrary to what TE disingenuously says, at long last introduce some check and balances to the Polish state. Alex Tunbridge Wellsin reply to guest-aaasoijmJul 21st 2017, 14:03 A destruction of the country's democratic systems would not immediately hit the economy. It will reduce business investment and confidence, which has longer term effects. Short term the risk is of budgetary problems caused by give aways - bribes. The Polish economy is down a bit, but then so are its neighbours. PiS - like their role models in Budapest and the Kremlin, are not entirely incompetent. MozartAJul 22nd 2017, 18:49 “This is our court” projected onto the building’s wall by protesters tells everything. The protesters (a few thousand) are mainly privileged groups in communist and post-communist Poland. The judiciary in Poland since communist criminal regime times has not been reformed decommunized and the vetting has not been conducted. The judiciary in Poland is an anchor for postcommunists and people who fraternized with them during a deal at so called Round Table in 1989. Thanks to the deal communist criminal regime has not been judged and for example judges who oppressed Poles during communist times still pass sentences. Moreover the judges name themselves as “extraordinary caste” and there is no control over the judges as in other democratic countries. Judiciary in Poland is a state within a state. There are pathologies. People who have stolen billions of Polish Zloty are protected but those who for example steal a bar of chocolate land in jail. Law and Justice party wants only change the pathology and restore justice. The changes proposed by Members of Parliament are present in German, Dutch, French or Spanish judiciary. The protester wants only to seize power. They use the street and foreign connections. The protest is not spontaneous but organized by the opposition and their activists, supporters. Organized stages, even the same lights held by protesters. Telling that Law and Justice “reduced the public broadcaster to a propaganda organ, packed the civil service with loyalists and purged much of the army’s leadership. It has undermined the independence of the judiciary by stacking the Constitutional Tribunal with its cronies.” Is a hypocrisy. When the present opposition ruled Poland all this organs were dominated by their people including the Constitutional Tribunal, journalists were fired, opposition Catholic media were blocked, discriminated and these people were not protested then. The problem of the opposition is a fact that they refuse the right to rule the democratically elected government and despise the millions of Poles who has chosen the ruling government. They claim that only if they are ruling there is democracy in Poland, if someone else is ruling there is totalitarianism, dictatorship, fascism etc. The strong proof that in Poland is a strong democracy is the fact that people who tell such rubbish can take to the streets and are not arrested. Recommend23ReportPermalink ForlanaJul 20th 2017, 23:28 I have just returned from the demonstration in Warsaw aimed - most of all - at encouraging President Duda to veto the disgraceful laws. I was in front of Pałac Namiestnikowski (President's seat). I couldn't see the edge of the crowd north, while south it was certainly farther than the University. At least 15 000 people in my estimation. We then marched down to parliament - where another multi-thousand demonstration was taking place. Yet another demonstration was taking place in front of Supreme Court in Plac Krasińskich. There were demonstations all over Poland - estimated 100,000 people. We still need more stop Kaczyński. If we don't - in the autumn PiS will probably try to demolish free media and free universities. Pieters comment:I showed here some readers reactions to this article the Economist magazine "Dependent judiciary. Poland’s government is putting the courts under its control. The question is whether the EU will do anything about it." ( www.economist.com/europe/2017/07/22/polands-government-is-putting-the-courts-under-its-control ). It are reactions of Poles who are probably PiS (Prawo i Sprawiedliwość) supporters, and it shows how divided and tribalist Poland is today. It is a litany against Polish liberals, Platforma Obywatelska, Nowoczesna, Wiosna, Lewica Razem, Sojusz Lewicy Demokratycznej, Zieloni, Inicjatywa Feministyczna, Unia Pracy, Twój Ruch/Janusz Palikot, the Polish GLBTQ (gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer) people and organisations. Poland is complicated for outsiders and the danger exist that distorted images and limited views of foreign visitors who for instance were in government of opposition circles get one sided views.I was for instance the guest in Warsaw of a dear family friend. A very kind, sophisticated, educated, civilized, but also rather conservative, conservative Roman Catholic, nationalistic and government (Prawo i Sprawiedliwość) supporting lady. Excellent, fine, good. I had a fine week. She showed me around, I saw the places where my family had lived before and after the war, I saw the rebuild Warsaw Old Town (Stare Miasto) again, I saw the Modern Warsaw around the Palace of Culture, I saw the Wilanów Palace again, I saw the charming Pałac Łazienkowski (Palace on the Isle), walked many miles through the wonderful Łazienki Park and through the embassy district, went to the Warsaw Uprising Museum with her, met and lunched with her daughter in a typical Polish restaurant in the Warsaw business centre, went to old art and modern art museums, saw Warsaw art galleries, the War or army museum, the Chopin museum, and walked for miles and miles through the city of Warsaw. If I would have believed and followed my host of that week 100% I would have had the vision of the Prawo i Sprawiedliwość and the 'conservative' wing of the Roman Catholic church and , and would have had bad feelings about Polish liberals, Platforma Obywatelska, Gazeta Wyborcza and Social Democrats. My host considered the SLD to be the evil Red devil. But I also met other Poles on the streets, in café's, in the Warsaw Metro, in the plane from Amsterdam to Warsaw and in the plane back from Warsaw to Amsterdam. I met reasonable people from both the right and the left, and despite the fact that they loathed each other, I liked both kind of peoples, even though I didn't always agreed with them. I totally disagreed with my Warsaw's host political, religious and nationalist ideas, but I liked her as my friend, important friend of my family (mother), as a historical and cultural guide and as a good person. That is democracy, that is freedom, that is pluriformity and that is equality, mutual respect and Poland.
Cheers, Pieterwww.liberties.eu/en/news/polish-judges-in-power-struggle-with-the-government/17234
|
|
|
Post by pieter on Jan 12, 2020 9:16:24 GMT -7
Judges From Across Europe March to Defend Polish PeersBy The Associated PressJan. 11, 2020Judges from across Europe, many of them dressed in their judicial robes, marched silently in Warsaw on Saturday in a show of solidarity with Polish peersWARSAW, Poland — Judges from across Europe, many of them dressed in their judicial robes, marched silently in Warsaw on Saturday in a show of solidarity with Polish peers who are protesting a bill that would allow the government to fire judges who issue rulings officials don't like.
The judges visiting the Polish capital descended the steps of the Supreme Court to applause and chants of “Thank you!” from a large crowd. Their show of support came amid a four-year struggle to protect judicial independence under Poland's populist government.
The European judges, joined by many Polish judges, lawyers and other citizens, marched from the high court to the parliament, some carrying Polish and European Union flags. City hall estimated that 15,000 people took part.
An organizer of the event read out a list of the countries represented, including Germany, Denmark, Italy and Croatia. Applause was strongest at the mention of Hungary and Turkey, where judicial independence has been curtailed in recent years.
“We have been in a difficult situation for more than four years,” Supreme Court judge Michał Laskowski told The Associated Press at the start of the march. “We are not alone. We can see that today. This is very, very important for us. I am really moved by this.”
The legislation giving the right-wing government new powers to fire or fine judges was passed by the lower house of parliament before Christmas and will be debated in the Senate next week. The EU and the United Nations have raised objections to the measure.
Opponents have characterized the legislation as the most dangerous blow to Poland's democratic foundations since the ruling Law and Justice party came to power in 2015. They said if the law is enacted, it would end the separation of powers in the country.
They also fear it would add to Poland’s marginalization in the EU and possibly even lead to its eventual departure from the bloc because the bill would give the authorities the power to also punish judges for rulings that are faithful to EU law.
Among those marching Saturday was a Turkish judge who said he lost his job in a purge of thousands of judges following a 2016 coup attempt. Yavuz Aydin, who has received asylum in the EU, said “the rule of law is worth fighting for -- in a peaceful way, in a silent way, in a democratic way.”Judges from across Europe, many of them dressed in their judicial robes, marched silently in Warsaw on Saturday in a show of solidarity with Polish peers“You don’t understand how important it is until you lose it. We understood, but it’s too late,” Aydin said. “I hope Polish people understand this before it’s too late.”
The Law and Justice government has taken control of Poland's Constitutional Tribunal, the public prosecution system and a body that appoints judges in the last four years. An EU court blocked measures that would have given it control of the Supreme Court.
The government argues that it seeks to bring order to a dysfunctional judicial system dominated by what it describes as a “caste” of privileged and sometimes corrupt judges. It says it also is trying to purge former communist judges from the judiciary.
Irish Supreme Court judge John MacMenamin, representing the chief justice of his country and the Association of Judges of Ireland, said the Polish government’s justification is not convincing.
“A lot of time has passed since Poland became free again. I do not think there is a great deal of validity in that argument,” he said. “If judges are not independent, they are not judges.”
He said he came to Warsaw because judicial independence “is so fundamental to the protection of the rule of law and also to the protection of the integrity of the European Union,” stressing that it was EU membership that helped Ireland, once a poor country, become one of the world's richest.
Many Polish judges have continued to assert their independence, issuing decisions that in some cases have gone against the interests of the ruling authorities.Judges from across Europe, many of them dressed in their judicial robes, marched silently in Warsaw on Saturday in a show of solidarity with Polish peers
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Oct 5, 2020 0:20:34 GMT -7
Under fire over LGBT rights, Polish leader blames activistBy VANESSA GERA 17 minutes ago apnews.com/article/poland-warsaw-europe-local-governments-df60fad38bdc1be80f29e74630febf0ePeople hold a protest rally in front of Poland's Education Ministry in Warsaw, Poland, Sunday, Oct. 4, 2020, against the appointment of a new education minister Przemyslaw Czarnek. Czarnek has said that LGBT people "are not equal to normal people." LGBT rights are the focus of a growing culture clash in Poland. (AP Photo/Czarek Sokolowski) WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Bart Staszewski felt angry and hopeless when local governments in Poland started passing resolutions last year declaring themselves to be free of “LGBT ideology.” The activist and filmmaker objected to the way conservative officials were using the word “ideology” to describe what he considers a natural desire for people who love each other to be together. At least 100 municipalities or regions, mostly in conservative southeastern Poland, have passed declarations that vowed to keep out “LGBT ideology” or adopted “family charters” that backed heterosexual unions. “I am just a normal Pole who just wants a good life with my partner and to be able to marry him one day,” the 30-year-old said. “Where is the ideology?” In response, he settled on a protest around the communities that are now widely referred to as “LGBT-free zones,” a move that has enraged Poland’s conservative, nationalist government as his posts have gone viral. With Poland under mounting international criticism for its treatment of its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community, Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki accused Staszewski of carrying out a “hoax” that has led some to believe that Poland has a human rights problem. Staszewski travels to the the areas involved, where he briefly attaches a yellow sign saying “LGBT-FREE ZONE” next to the town sign. He posts the photos on social media, sometimes including a lesbian or gay man from the town. The signs, in four languages, have the look of military warnings. Staszewski calls it “performance art” aimed at “making it possible to visualize the literalness and meaning of the harmful documents.” Almost 32% of Poland’s 38 million people live in such areas, according to “Atlas of Hate,” an LGBT group tracking the issue. Morawiecki singled out the activist for rebuke after 50 ambassadors to Poland and foreign representatives published an open letter of solidarity with LGBT people in Poland. “He completely falsified reality,” Morawiecki said. “To call it fake news would not do it justice. It was a deep fake.” The term “LGBT-free” is sensitive because it carries an association of language used by Nazi Germany to describe areas free of Jews — Judenrein or Judenfrei — after they had been forced out or killed during the Holocaust. The term, however, was already being used before Staszewski began posting. A pro-government newspaper, Gazeta Polska, printed stickers last summer saying “LGBT-Free Zone” with a rainbow flag crossed out. The European Parliament used it in a December resolution denouncing the Polish municipalities. Representatives of Poland’s conservative ruling party, Law and Justice, which have sponsored the resolutions, argue they are trying to protect families and their Christian traditions, and say they are not discriminatory because they do not ban anyone from living in the areas. “To the dear ambassadors, I can only say that tolerance belongs to Polish DNA,” Morawiecki said. But Staszewski and other activists say the resolutions stigmatize a minority that is already suffering from bullying, depression and homophobic violence, including attacks on pride parades. He recites the names of Polish teenagers who have died by suicide after facing homophobia. He fears Poland could follow Russia, where regional resolutions banning “gay propaganda” preceded a 2013 national law that Human Rights Watch calls “a tool for discrimination and harassment.” Poland’s culture clash has been simmering for years but intensified as LGBT activists became more visible, holding more Equality Parades and demanding same-sex unions and marriage. A tolerance declaration signed by Warsaw Mayor Rafal Trzaskowski in 2019 — itself mostly symbolic — was a key trigger for the backlash. Another was his gay deputy, Pawel Rabiej, saying that same-sex civil unions should be introduced to pave the way for marriage rights and adoption. President Andrzej Duda made the protection of traditional families a key campaign theme during his successful re-election this summer against Trzaskowski, vowing a constitutional ban on same-sex adoptions. He called the LGBT rights movement a “neo-Bolshevism” group pushing an “aggressive sexualization” in schools. Two towns are now suing Staszewski, while a right-wing magazine has denounced him as a “professional liar.” In Warsaw where he lives, he has faced angry insults by strangers in public and death treats online, but also many expressions of support. Staszewski accused Morawiecki of hypocrisy for blaming him for Poland’s image problem. “He is using his power to spread fake news,” Staszewski said. “The problem is not the activists. It’s the homophobic acts introduced by local governments.” Two days after Morawiecki lashed out at Staszewski, he appointed a new minister of education and science, Przemyslaw Czarnek, who has said that LGBT people “are not equal to normal people.” Czarnek was also sued by Staszewski for accusing the 2018 Equality Parade in Lublin, which Staszewski was co-organizing, of promoting depravity. Czarnek lost and was forced to apologize — then repeated his claim. Protests were held in Warsaw and Wroclaw Sunday expressing outrage that a man with his views was tapped to oversee the nation’s schools and universities. In recent weeks, international pressure on Poland has intensified. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen declared “LGBT-free zones” are “humanity-free zones” that have no place in the 27-member bloc. The Polish towns have begun losing funding from the EU and Norway, a non-EU member which contributes millions of euros in development aid for access to the bloc’s common market. Two towns have reversed their resolutions. While U.S. President Donald Trump sees an ideological friend in Poland’s government on issues like migration, his ambassador has issued a strong rebuke on this issue. “Human rights are not an ideology,” Ambassador Georgette Mosbacher tweeted, posting the letter calling for tolerance that she signed with dozens of other ambassadors. She later said Poland’s government is on the “wrong side of history” on LGBT rights. Mosbacher said Trump and Democratic challenger Joe Biden were united on this matter, and that U.S. companies and Congress would consider Poland’s treatment of sexual minorities when making investment and military decisions. That was a strong warning to the ally on NATO’s eastern flank that relies heavily on the U.S. for protection. Mosbacher was summoned Thursday to the Foreign Ministry, where a deputy minister told her that Poland has never persecuted sexual minorities and it “has always been on the right side of history.”
|
|
|
Post by karl on Oct 5, 2020 10:14:01 GMT -7
This has the taste of leaving the barn doors open then to complain of the cows getting out. This Government was legally elected by the Polish people in good faith and now do not agree with the results they had placed in to effect.. It is once again, an internal issue that is for Poland to make right in what ever direction is theirs to do.
In as much the issue with the Polish population comprised that of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgenders. Other then Poland being primarly a Catholic State, these people are what they are, people. My self? I do not agree with these people, but do not condemn them for what they are. What I condemn though, is the constant reference to the long past war situation:
{ The term “LGBT-free” is sensitive because it carries an association of language used by Nazi Germany to describe areas free of Jews — Judenrein or Judenfrei — after they had been forced out or killed during the Holocaust}
The above becomes after all these years of constant reminder of those war days just a bit old. The half German of my self hold no grievance to referance made in conversations between people, but to see this in publication from the Polish as a reminder to people of my self are in constant reminded, becomes a bit boring. After all these many years, the Polish needs be to get over it as we have.
The most of us lost something in that war in as well as my self, but, I do not constant to bring this against the Russians to condemn them as a reminder. It is my own highest expectations others respect this as my self have done for so many years. Perhaps I expect too much, if so, this is my failure.
Karl
|
|