Tracing "Grandma"

[gardenmoma]

Good Morning,

I need help with a name

I have many different spellings for the birth name of my maternal grandmother. I am beginning to think there was some kind of linguistic genii at work.

Karwoska (i)
Karvowski (i)
Karwaska (i)
Karboska (i)
Karcolska (i)
Karcolaska (i)

She died young in 1938 (about 48-yrs-old); probably emigrated about 1908; perhaps came through Castle Garden, NY. (Canada?)

I have the name of no village or any documents pertaining to her except some birth certificates for my aunts and uncles, and her death certificate.

The family story is that she was from "the Russian part of Poland."

Thanks. GM

[nancy]

GM,

It is not unusual to have several spellings of a Polish surname.

In Poland, the name endings change according to case, so there is one source of alternate spellings.

On US documents, sometimes the names were spelled phonetically, or what seems lke a "best guess" effort. It took me a long time to find my paternal grandfather in the 1900 census because the transcription of the handwritten name was so distorted.

Anyway, according to my surname "bible" by Fred Hoffman, your name probably/possibly comes from the root "Karw_" and the closest of the several he lists is Karwaczka. In 1990, there were approx. 36 people with that name in Poland.

I will do some additional checking, but: do you know her first name? Have you looked for passenger manifests for her (in 1908 it would have been Ellis Island, not Castle Garden, if she came through NY).

[suzanne]

GM,
If she did come through Ellis Island, their website (www.ellisisland.org) will let you search for her using various pieces of data, including an approximate year of birth. I think they will also let you search with just part of a last name (i.e. try searching for "Kar") and if you know her first name, you can use that to narrow down the results.

Perhaps you are aware of this, but I should mention it anyway: when searching for a first name, be aware that it may have been anglicized, so try that, if possible, if your first searches turn up nothing.

Good luck and let us know if you find anything!

[jimpres]

GM

This is from Ellis Island.

Exact Matches (21)
Name of Passenger Residence Arrived Age on Arrival Passenger Record Ship Manifest Ship Image
1. Adam Karwoska Dobesh, Russia 1913 2 View View View
2. Adam Karwoska Kajenik, Russia 1910 2 View View View
3. Alaksandra Karwoska Paczjkowo 1899 19 View View View
4. Aniela Karwoska Warsehau, Russia 1908 20 View View View
5. Broniolawa Karwoska Chadzyuy, Russia 1913 16 View View View
6. Cgeslawa Karwoska Tbylisi 1907 24 View View View
7. Elzbieta Karwoska 1909 56 View View View
8. Helena Karwoska 1897 10 View View View
9. Johanna Karwoska Kajenik, Russia 1910 26 View View View
10. Josefa Karwoska Lornza, Russie 1913 18 View View View
11. Julianna Karwoska Gludris, Russia 1913 20 View View View
12. Kornela Karwoska Brzostowo, Russia 1912 23 View View View
13. Leontina Karwoska Kajenik, Russia 1910 5 View View View
14. Marianna Karwoska 1896 28 View View View
15. Marianna Karwoska Dobesh, Russia 1913 24 View View View
16. Olesia Karwoska Geinki 1901 18 View View View
17. Stana. Karwoska 1912 View View View
18. Stanislawa Karwoska Lumiszin, Russia 1911 21 View View View
19. Stefania Karwoska Nostawa, Russia 1911 20 View View View
20. Stefania Karwoska Tajinm, Russia 1909 19 View View View
21. Wladislaw Karwoska 1896 6 View View View

Jim

[gardenmoma]

Hi guys...

Thanks for taking time to help me along

First of all...Nancy

In Poland, the name endings change according to case, so there is one source of alternate spellings... So, what you are saying is that there will be changes irrespective of gender? I did put what I thought gender ending are in my list.

...in the 1900 census because the transcription of the handwritten name was so distorted. Did you find this 1900 census on-line? I have a later census in which I find both grandparents listed in Cleveland at the address I know they has...one of course Grandma's birth surname is not listed.

Anyway, according to my surname "bible" by Fred Hoffman, your name probably/possibly comes from the root "Karw_" and the closest of the several he lists is Karwaczka. In 1990, there were approx. 36 people with that name in Poland... This is what I meant about name change because of pronunciation. I never asked any of my uncles, but my Mom and aunts all had one of the spellings listed above. On one of the aunt's birth certificate, the b is crossed out and a "v" is inserted Do you own the Hoffman book?

I will do some additional checking, but: do you know her first name? Have you looked for passenger manifests for her (in 1908 it would have been Ellis Island, not Castle Garden, if she came through NY). her first name was "Anna." I have looked for passenger manifest for her at Ellis Island as has one of my aunts. We found nothing...that is what is leading me to believe the name is funny.

(I made a mistake this morning when I wrote Castle Garden...that is where my paternal grandfather would have come through...he was earlier. I know a little more, just a little, about that side of the family.

THANKS

[gardenmoma]

Suzanne and Jim,

Thanks so much for your support...this I need as I work on this project in all bits and pieces. I found myself going around in circles last night so decided to ask you all for help...if for no other reason than to poke holes in what I've done and do what Jim did...

Jim, I never thought of listing a Russian origin! Poland is Poland...right Anway...that is very interesting...I need to look at a map.

I also know the town where my grandparents were married here in the U.S. and where my eldest uncle was born. Using the Internet, I can not find the name of any Catholic Church there.

I think I will go over to the University library where they have a collection of telephone books from all over and check there.

If I have the correct town, it is just a short detour when we are driving from MA to VA.

I would like to find out find a little about this grandmother - if just the correct spelling of her name - for my aunt who is the last one of her generation in that family (other than one aunt by marriage, who doesn't know anything...talked to her last night).

Thanks... GM

[suzanne]

GM,
It's so hard not just when documents are missing, but names! Right now I cannot go back further than my maternal grandmother's parents - I have names and a year of birth for them but that's it, no place of birth, no exact dates, no date/place of marriage, nothing.

I went to the local LDS family center here and ordered a couple of microfilms that may or may not have any info. Without a place name, I'm not really hopeful, but, we'll see.

Good luck with your searches! If you know your grandparents' place of marriage, getting a marriage certificate from the city shouldn't be hard and should hopefully list a place of birth.

[nancy]

gardenmoma said:

Hi guys...

Thanks for taking time to help me along

First of all...Nancy

In Poland, the name endings change according to case, so there is one source of alternate spellings... So, what you are saying is that there will be changes irrespective of gender? I did put what I thought gender ending are in my list.

Yes, there are several endings for the feminine name, depending on how it is used in a sentence.

Did you find this 1900 census on-line? I have a later census in which I find both grandparents listed in Cleveland at the address I know they has...one of course Grandma's birth surname is not listed.

yes, the 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930 censuses are all online (plus many earlier ones). I have a subscription to ancestry.com and find them that way.

This is what I meant about name change because of pronunciation. I never asked any of my uncles, but my Mom and aunts all had one of the spellings listed above. On one of the aunt's birth certificate, the b is crossed out and a "v" is inserted Do you own the Hoffman book?

Yes, I own the Hoffman book. Are you saying that your mother and her sisters all used the same spelling? Are there more names you want me to look up?

her first name was "Anna." I have looked for passenger manifest for her at Ellis Island as has one of my aunts. We found nothing...that is what is leading me to believe the name is funny.

The name as recorded on the manifest, and the way it may have been transcribed, can often be two different things. For instance, someone on one of the genealogy email lists was puzzled by the first name "Motensz." A number of us looked at the original manifest, and it was clearly "Mateusz" -whoever transcribed the manifest just got it wrong. Happens all the time.

Was your grandfather naturalized? The accompanying documents have a lot of information (depending on the year the naturalization took place).

[piwo]

Jim, I never thought of listing a Russian origin! Poland is Poland...right Anway...that is very interesting...I need to look at a map.

My babcia's immigration records had her listed as coming from Russia, since in 1907 there was no "official" such place as Poland, it didn't "officially" exist: not until the end of the first world war.

The name of the village was in genitive case, not nominative, country was listed as Russia, and her fathers name was misspelled. So yes, those immigration records are helpful, but contain some pitfalls as well.

[gardenmoma]

Was your grandfather naturalized? The accompanying documents have a lot of information (depending on the year the naturalization took place).

Yes, he was...I have a copy of his naturalization paper (02/15/1929) as well as the certificate he received from completing a citizenship class.

Interesting note on the naturalization paper ...after September 22, 1922, husband's naturalization does not make wife a citizen. So. I guess my grandmother was never a citizen She probably couldn't even read.

After "talking" with all last night, I ran my grandfather, Jan Tylek, through the Ellis Island search process. I came up with many Tyleks including two Jans.
Ellis Island has apparently refined their processes and added more to their records since the last time I searched.

I really need to take all these bits and pieces and write out a time-line of my own instead of using others narratives.

Thanks again,

Georgene

[nancy]

Yes, he was...I have a copy of his naturalization paper (02/15/1929) as well as the certificate he received from completing a citizenship class.

After "talking" with all last night, I ran my grandfather, Jan Tylek, through the Ellis Island search process. I came up with many Tyleks including two Jans.

Is there anything on the documentation to indicate the village he was from in Poland? If you have the certificate, then you can use the number on it to find the rest of the paperwork (declaration of intent, petition) whioch should carry additional information.

See www.archives.gov/genealogy/naturalization/index.html

or www.genealogy.com/31_donna.html


If Jan Tylek is the ancestor who came through Castle Garden, then you won't find him in the Ellis Island database, the one for Castle Garden is separate. But whereever you search, be sure to look at all possible spellings.

Try www.castlegarden.org/search.php
(I found a listing for Jan Tylec)


Good luck!

[gardenmoma]

I've been trying to "go in the back door" to find out about my maternal grandmother...

My maternal grandfather's name I've discovered (at a very late hour yesterday) is written Tylek = Tyłek which leads me to believe I might find something by searching Tywek or Tyvek.

The given name of Jan is so very common that I need to be careful

Also, in comparing all the bits and pieces that I have from U.S. govt. papers, I find that birth dates, etc. are off by one-two-three years.

I am trying through the U.S. archives to find where my grandfather's naturalization application papers are...by e-mail back and forth. Perhaps these will show me something else. All I have is a copy of the certificate which he was given.

;D And so it goes ;D

[Jaga]

gardenmoma said:

Good Morning,

I need help with a name

I have many different spellings for the birth name of my maternal grandmother. I am beginning to think there was some kind of linguistic genii at work.

Karwoska (i)
Karvowski (i)
Karwaska (i)
Karboska (i)
Karcolska (i)
Karcolaska (i)

what about Karwowska?

[gardenmoma]

Jaga,

Thanks...that is one variation I haven't tried

GM