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Post by pieter on Jul 16, 2023 4:42:13 GMT -7
NOS News• today, 12:57Rutte, Von der Leyen and Meloni again to Tunisia for migration dealDemissionary Prime Minister Rutte is again in Tunisia today. Together with Italian Prime Minister Meloni and President of the European Commission Von der Leyen, he hopes to conclude a migration deal there.
Last month, the three also visited President Saied in Tunis. Rutte, Meloni and von der Leyen had hoped to reach an agreement at the first meeting with Saied, before the EU summit at the end of June, but failed to do so.
Hopefully it will come around now. Tunisia is the most important transit country for people who want to go to Europe, partly because of its favorable location. Half of the migrants arriving in Italy this year had traveled via Tunisia.
Both Tunisians and migrants from other countries depart from Tunisia for Europe:The coastal town of Sfax, less than 150 kilometers from the Italian island of LampedusaA migration deal would mean that Tunisia better guards its borders and tackles people smuggling in exchange for investments from the EU. In the long term, the North African country can receive 900 million euros in financial support. The country has already received 150 million euros. That money is intended to improve the Tunisian economy
With an agreement, Tunisia would also receive 100 million euros for border control, rescue operations and the return of migrants.
A deal with Tunisia is controversial. Critics point out that this is a dictatorship and that European money will end up in the pockets of those in power. A deal would also give legitimacy to the regime.
Outgoing Prime Minister Rutte did not want to anticipate an agreement at the press conference on Friday after the Council of Ministers: "I do think it is good to go there to see how far we can get," he said.
Rutte also did not want to say what it still depends on. "Because that in turn leads to reactions there and they are always precarious processes. Anyway, if we hadn't been able to make progress, we wouldn't go there either, so we really think there is reason to go there," says Rutte.Original Dutch source: nos.nl/artikel/2483022-rutte-von-der-leyen-en-meloni-opnieuw-naar-tunesie-om-migratiedeal (Translated by Pieter for Proboards Polish Culture Forum)
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Post by pieter on Jul 16, 2023 4:43:07 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jul 16, 2023 4:45:45 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jul 16, 2023 4:46:14 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jul 16, 2023 4:56:27 GMT -7
Meloni, Rutte and von der Leyen head to Tunisia to unlock migrant dealThe EU is offering Tunisia money to help stem migrant departures to Europe, but talks have stalled.European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced in June that the EU is ready to provide Tunisia with over €1 billion in different areas | John Thys/AFP via Getty Images By Gregorio Sorgi July 14, 2023 1:45 pm CET 2 minutes readThe EU’s migration trio is headed back to Tunisia.
EU chief executive Ursula von der Leyen will join Italian leader Giorgia Meloni and her Dutch counterpart, Mark Rutte, in Tunisia on Sunday in a bid to unblock a stalled deal with the country to limit migrant departures.
The EU has been trying to finalize an agreement with Tunisia since June, when von der Leyen, Meloni and Rutte traveled to the country to meet Tunisian President Kaïs Saïed. The deal would see the EU provide cash to Tunisia in exchange for stronger border controls.
“We hope to wrap up the discussions we kicked off in June,” the European Commission’s deputy spokesperson Dana Spinant said at a daily media briefing on Friday.
Von der Leyen announced in June that the EU is ready to provide Tunisia with over €1 billion in different areas, including trade, investment and energy cooperation. But negotiations have since slowed, with diplomats failing to strike a deal before a late June EU leaders’ summit as they had hoped.
The main hurdle is that the bulk of financial assistance is tied to Tunisia ratifying a bailout from the International Monetary Fund, which Saïed has repeatedly opposed.
The Commission has also promised €105 million in border management aid that is not tied to the IMF loan approval. But Saïed stressed in June that his country would not accept becoming a border guard for other countries.Original source: www.politico.eu/article/eu-commission-chief-ursula-von-der-leyen-italian-giorgia-meloni-dutch-mark-rutte-travel-tunisia-on-sunday/
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Post by pieter on Jul 16, 2023 9:59:30 GMT -7
NOS News• Today, 18:18European Union concludes migration deal with TunisiaThe European Union and Tunisia have signed a deal in the field of migration, a spokesman for outgoing Prime Minister Rutte reports from the capital Tunis.
It has been agreed that Tunisia will better guard its borders and tackle people smuggling, in exchange for investments from the EU. That money is intended to improve the Tunisian economy. More details will be announced later.
President von der Leyen of the European Commission, together with outgoing Prime Minister Rutte and Italian Prime Minister Meloni, made agreements with Tunisian President Saied in Tunis.
Tunisia is the main transit country for migrants to Europe. Half of the migrants arriving in Italy this year had traveled via Tunisia.
A deal with Tunisia is controversial. Critics point out that this is a dictatorship and that European money will end up in the pockets of those in power. A deal would also give legitimacy to the regime.Last month, the three also visited President Saied in Tunis. Rutte, Meloni and von der Leyen had hoped to reach an agreement at the first meeting with Saied, before the EU summit at the end of June, but failed to do so.
Both Tunisians and migrants from other countries depart from Tunisia for Europe:
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Post by pieter on Jul 16, 2023 18:42:15 GMT -7
Refugees from sub-Saharan Africa sit in a makeshift boat intercepted by Tunisian authorities in the Mediterranean Sea about 50 nautical miles (93km) off the coast of the city of Sfax [File: Fethi Belaid/AFP]NOS News•today, 02:42Rutte: agreements made about human rights in asylum deal with TunisiaOutgoing Prime Minister Rutte says that it will be checked whether Tunisia does not violate human rights in the implementation of the migration deal that has been concluded with the European Union. Human rights groups had earlier in the evening expressed fear that a tougher policy will make the situation worse.
Rutte said that such difficult topics have also been discussed with Tunisia. "All agreements we make about the transfer and return of people to safe countries must fall within international treaties," he said on his return to Schiphol about the human rights implications of the agreement.
"This deal is important because it ensures that we really try to break down the dangerous crossings across the Mediterranean Sea, that business model of the smugglers in boats," Rutte summarized the importance of the agreements. "If you manage to get that overrun under control, it will also have an effect here."'Dead End Alley' The EU and Tunisia have agreed that the country will better guard its borders and tackle people smuggling in exchange for investments in the economy. The EU is also allocating more than €100 million to border security, rescue operations and combating people smuggling.
Human rights groups immediately criticized the deal. Council for Refugees fears that Tunisia will become "a kind of dead end for refugees". Amnesty International predicts that smugglers will benefit from the tightened border policy. "When governments put up barriers to migration, it plays into the hands of smugglers. As long as there are no legal migration routes, refugees and migrants will continue to rely on smugglers."
The outgoing prime minister believes that these agreements can also serve as a guideline for agreements with other North African countries. This should prevent a waterbed effect in which migrant routes are shifted from Tunisia to other countries in the region. "Because it is a broad agreement - not only about asylum, but also about the economy - it is the ambition to also make similar agreements with other countries."Pay Out MoneyRutte acknowledges that a lot of money is involved in the plans, a total of several hundred million euros. "But if you look at what it costs if you don't do it in a decent way, I think it's really good."
According to him, good agreements have been made about the payment of the millions. "The European Commission is very good at that. They always ensure that the money is only paid out if the agreements that have been made have been met. You don't give a sum of money all at once."
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Post by pieter on Jul 16, 2023 18:51:26 GMT -7
NOS News• yesterday, 22:10Human rights organizations negative about migration deal with Tunisia: 'Outrageous'The Netherlands Council for Refugees, Amnesty International and the Refugee Foundation have nothing good to say about the migration deal that the European Union has concluded with Tunisia. They fear that the human rights of refugees and other migrants are being violated by the North African country.
Amnesty International calls the fact that the Netherlands agreed to the deal and played a leading role in it scandalous. "Our government must take human rights seriously. No deal should be made with a country of which it is clear in advance that it is cooperating in human rights violations as a financier."
According to Amnesty, the deal will cause "enormous suffering" at Europe's external borders.
The human rights organization refers to reports that showed that Tunisia is leaving unwanted black migrants behind in the desertBlack refugees stranded in Tunisian desert witness death, miseryWith the deal, the EU and Tunisia want to tackle people smugglers, but according to Amnesty, they will benefit from it. "Because when governments put up barriers to migration, it plays into the hands of smugglers. As long as there are no legal migration routes, refugees and migrants will continue to rely on smugglers. Moreover, it remains to be seen how the EU and Tunisia will tackle people smuggling."
The Dutch Council for Refugees finds it "completely unbelievable" that the human rights of refugees and migrants will be respected in Tunisia, "no matter how much money is involved". "Europe is turning Tunisia into a kind of dead end alley for refugees and migrants."'Political change'According to the Council for Refugees, black Africans are already being blamed for the country's many problems and are facing racist violence and discrimination. "We are very concerned about what this deal will bring about."
The Refugee Foundation is against "deals with dictators on the backs of refugees and migrants" and believes that refugees and migrants should not be used as "political change".
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Post by karl on Jul 16, 2023 20:08:57 GMT -7
Pieter
For as not to appear heartless, but it is good of these three leaders to attend to the choke point in Tunisia to stem off the flow of illegal migrants to Europe. Even though it takes a bribe of cash to a dictator, it is worth it for even to save lives of some unfortunate migrant travelers.
In spite of those that appose these actions, no one group has come up with a better idea.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jul 17, 2023 3:19:47 GMT -7
Karl,
If they really want to close off the Mediterannian, they will have to make similar deals with Morocco, Algeria, Libiya, Egypt, and Mauritania. On the long term with development aid, investments and etc. you have to improve the conditions in the countries these people come from so that they stay in their respective countries. But Human traffickers and refugees and fortune seekers will always find away to come to Europe. They will find other roots or means, even bribing corrupt customs officers, or corrupt state officials which speak to the mouth of the West-Europeans, but due to corruption allow refugees to continue to pass to Europe over the Mediteranian sea. Excuse me for my scepsis and maybe cynicism. But I aggree with you.
The near future doesn’t look so bright with the Climate Change and extreme draught in Africa, conflicts that continue to exist in the Congo, Central African Republic, Mali, Nigeria, Sudan, Ethiopian and other countries. Extreme oppressive, harsh and brutal regimes like in Eritrea that makes people to leave their country. Climate change refugees are a new group of refugees that flee from heet, poverty, lack of food and water.
In the Eastern Mediteranian the Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, Afghan and Pakistani refugees will continue to flock into Turkey, Greece and via Norhern Africa in Italy 🇮🇹. The European borders, the Frontex and National boarder guards, police forces, customs officers and even armed forces can’t handle these massive streams (flows) of refugees that enter Europe. The situations for refugees in countries like France, Belgium and the Netherlands is also dire for these people. The majority of native Europeans and integrated migrants isn’t rather welcoming to these newcomers, neither are the authorities. It goes from indifference to hostility.
The migration and refugee policies of the European countries and the EU are failing ones. In the thirties no one wanted the German and Austrian Jewish refugees, today nobody wants the Black Africans from Africa, the Berbers and Arabs of North Africa and the Arabs, Kurds, Persian Iranians, Afghans and Pakistani’s from the Middle East and Asia.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jul 17, 2023 6:16:20 GMT -7
Folks,
There needds to be done something to improve the lives of refugees in the regions where the refugees come from. What Americans probably do not understand or understand with limitation hwo large the Aferican, North African and Middle Eastern area's were which were controled by European colonial empires and states. Northern Africa was largely a French or Ottoman (Turkish) colony, the Middle East was Ottoman, French and British. After the Brits left or lost colonial influence the Americans went in. Oil/Petrol was always the aim of Global ambition, who controled the Oil frields and who controled the trade routes on land and trade shipping routes.
If this mass immoigration continues and unrest, poverty, drought, misery, civil war, war, corruption and nepotism (at the expense of starving poor) people continues in certain area's the situation might come uncotnrolably and the United Nations might step in with armed Peace keeping forces or former Colonial Powers send large military forces to former colonies like France in Mali, and the British army in former British colonies South Sudan, Somalia and the former Belgiam Colony, the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
In the near futre Western Nations and the United Nations need to creat safe zones in the Middle East and Africa with no fly zones, where refugee camps can be established and propperly managed and lead. Europe will be more and more a fortified continent, with more and more restrictions and limitations for refugees and new immigrants. The Europeans and other Western countries, China, India, and later after the Ukrainian war Russia and Ukraine will have to invest in these pporer regions. Russia and Ukraine export masses of grain to Africa and the Middle East for bread and other food. You must have irrigation, modern agriculture and modern science and economical investments in these poorer regions to stop refugee floods and mass immigration.
From one side you have thave deals like the present deal between the EU/Netherlands and Italy on one side and Tunesia on the other side, and with Turkey to stop mass flooding with refugee streams of Greece. From the other side you need mass developmend aid, investments and help in Africa. Like the Chinese do today in an opportunistic way. The Chinese do not ask questions about Human rights. The Brics countries are active and present over there for sure. China is heavy influential in Uganda, Angola, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and other African countries.
More African countries should do what Muammar Gaddafi did for Libya. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River )
So even though I agree with you Karl, I think that in the same time more most be done to prevent people from fleeing and migration. Improve the conditions in the countries where they come from so that they have no need to flee to Western Europe, the UK or the USA.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jul 17, 2023 7:08:05 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jul 17, 2023 7:09:24 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jul 17, 2023 7:25:19 GMT -7
Folks,
Reality is like the concept of communicating vessels. Communicating vessels or vases are a set of containers containing a homogeneous fluid and connected sufficiently far below the top of the liquid: when the liquid settles, it balances out to the same level in all of the containers regardless of the shape and volume of the containers. If additional liquid is added to one vessel, the liquid will again find a new equal level in all the connected vessels.
When you look at Africa and Europe as communicating vessels you see a disbalance in wealth, prosperity, the avaibability of food and water, in that sense the liquid in the European vessel is low because there is a less hunger, poverty and drought there (except Italy and Spain), so the liquid (African refugees/migrants) flows to the European vessel. And it will continue to do so until the levels are more equal. And that happens all over the world.
I don't know how to solve this problem. There could be solutions, but corruption, nepotism, organised crime, wars and civil wars prevent Africa taking the road of progress, development and economical growth. Technically humans today can make sweet water from salt water in a mechanical process. Technically you could build pipelines through Afria, connected to irrigation systems. Technically people could make deserts green, fertile land. But today deserts are growing and forests are shrining and so arable farm land. Millions of refugees and mirants will continue to go to Europe via Libiya, Tunesia, Morocco, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Malta, Spain, France and etc.
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jul 17, 2023 13:21:30 GMT -7
NOS News• today, 14:03 •Edited today, 2:27 PMMigrants taken from desert: 'Put across border by Tunisian army'Libyan border guards have rescued a group of migrants from the desert. They would have been put across the border by Tunisia's security services, Libya's interior ministry said. The migrants have been received in a village on the border in northern Libya. They have taken shelter there.
In a video released by the Libyan ministry, two Nigerian men say they were beaten by members of the Tunisian army and taken to a desert area. Another man said that the Tunisian army took their passports and then burned them. He was put in a vehicle with 35 others and taken to the Libyan border.
The group spent two days in the desert. According to human rights organization Human Rights Watch, that area is a demilitarized zone without food, drink or medical care.Migration dealHuman Rights Watch accuses Tunisian security forces of driving hundreds of migrants and asylum seekers there across the border. These migrants also include children and pregnant women.
Yesterday, the EU concluded a controversial deal with the Tunisian government on limiting migration flows to the European Union. Tunisia will introduce stricter border controls in exchange for investment from the EU. Outgoing Prime Minister Rutte said the EU will monitor Tunisia's human rights monitoring.
These human rights are increasingly being violated in the country. President Kais Saied, who came to power democratically in 2019, has seized all power in the country in recent years. Parliament has been paralyzed and many opposition politicians, journalists and activists have been imprisoned.
According to Amnesty International, the deal will cause "enormous suffering" at Europe's external borders.
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