Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Nov 23, 2007 15:20:54 GMT -7
Warning signs go up to stop Poles stealing river fish for Christmas dinner
To any peckish Poles or ravenous Romanians, the message could not be clearer.
Keep off our fish.
Three roadsign-style warnings were launched yesterday to stop Eastern European immigrants from spearing, taking home and cooking coarse fish from our rivers, lakes and canals.
The initiative is timely because carp and pike are a traditional Christmas dish in Poland and officials fear an increase in fish rustling over the next few weeks.
Eastern Europeans often plead ignorance of the British tradition that catches are thrown back, and instead take them home for supper. Brits`d better not be so fussy and nitpicking. When Poles pack up their stuff and leave, Brits will beg them to come back to save British economy!
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Post by pieter on Nov 23, 2007 19:06:08 GMT -7
Pawian,
I mentioned the Netherlands, because red, white and blue are our colors, the Russian flag is White, Blue and Red. I think the Russians aren't suicidal or mad, because invading Poland and occupying it would be, like Russia invading Turkey or Afghanistan again. I actually read an article about a Russian patriot (critical of Putin, but not a Communist, fascist, nor liberal, just a moderate Nationalist), who constantly mentioned Poland as an example, while he and the Dutch reporter spoke about the Russian situation.
The man is the Russian philosopher and publicist Aleksandr Tsipko:
I quote some interesting things he said in the interview concerning Russia and the Polish example;
The Dutch interviewer:
Don't you find it dangerous that Putin, in a country with a weak developped democratic tradition, constantly mentiones Patriotism, and the historical role of Russia?
Aleksandr Tsipko answer:
"Why? If you do not understand that you do not understand Russia? How should Russians live if they do not believe in their own country? Sorry, but that is a stupidity. We have nothing else. The only thing I posess is the memory of my ancesters. I don't want to be a half colony of the West, I don't want to be a unhappy Russian intellectual who is supported financially by you. I could go to America, I got serious offers. But I want to live in my own country! We have nothing else than our country. It is a disaster that Jeltsin and the Russian Democrats did not understood that. Try to say to a Pole that his Patriotism is an objection for democracy. He would kill you! Unfortunately we Russians are unable to combine a National-patriotic worldview with the liberal set of values. The Poles are very good in that. They love the state, their church and their freedom."
In your latest interview in the Literatoernaja Gazeta you state that the only right way for Russia is Putins "Souvereign democracy". What does that expression actually means? Does differant kinds of democracy exist?
"Souvereign democracy is a little bit an uneasy term, but already before the Revolution there was the idea that Russia could coap with a few liberties, on the condition that certain processes would be under state control. There is nothing new about that. Look at Poland, they became member of the EU and that organisation demands of Poles that they love Gays. But Poles are Catholics and they will never love Gays."
What do you think of Putins foreign politics? The Poles for instance are not very fond of him.
His foreign politics is suitable. It is the bad luck of Putin that he has no-one in the Kremlin who has knowledge and experiance with Poland. He does not know how to deal with them. But in his logics and worldview he is not very differant from the Kaczynski twins. They came to power on a wave of respect for the people and their historical memory. What is bad about that? It is a pitty that their politics went in the direction of an Operetta. But Donald Tusk, who won the elections now, thinks exactly the same about it. The Polish 'Volnosc i wartosc' (freedom and dignety) is in fact just Putins idea of Souvereign Democracy."
Source: Interview by Laura Starink of the NRC Handelsblad (translation Pieter Pluijgers)
Pieter
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Nov 24, 2007 15:46:01 GMT -7
hahahaha First, at face value, I thought that it doesn`t suit here in this humour thread, but after reading it I think it is very funny. I don`t suppose this Russian is going to make a career, he focuses on Poland too much, it is not trendy in today`s Russia, quite the opposite. " How should Russians live if they do not believe in their own country? Sorry, but that is a stupidity. We have nothing else. It has been true for many centuries. Russians had nothing to boast about, only their imperialistic stae and powerful army. Russians can be proud. hahahahahahaha Was he talking about Kaczynski brothers??? [/i]."[/quote] Church and freedom - yes. The state- too much a lesser extent. Poles traditionally view the state with suspicion, if not with enmity. Centuries of foreign partitions and occupations caused this. But motherland - oh, yes, everybody loves her. (unitl it comes to working for her). [/i]."[/quote] hahahahahahaha Do we have to love gays? It is enough that we accept them ,like other normal people. The attitude is changing slowly, but is. [/b][/quote] They hate him!!!! hahahahahaahaha He is from criminal organization - KGB! Did anybody know how to deal with Poland when Kaczynskis were at power? hahahahaha Exactly. Kaczynskis and Putin ride the same cart. Unfortunately, Polish foreign politics loks like total amateurish mess compared to Russian one.
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Post by pieter on Nov 25, 2007 5:10:37 GMT -7
Pawian,
You are right by stating that it doesn`t suit here in this humour thread, but you know how impulsive and unorthodox I am. That is the little cultural anarchist in me. Rules, regulations and legislation is always difficult for me, as Post-dadaist haha.
Serious again:
I don't know if he will be able to, from one side he is a Russian patriot and Putin supporter, from the other side he is to critical. The Kremlin doesn't like critics nor Opposition. Look at Kasparov.
Is the Russian better, or is Russia stil so big and powerful that it is better able to dictate it's foreign policy to let's say the EU, USA and UN?
For example, Europe has a dependancy of Russian energy, gas and oil.
And many of them are deeply frustrated about the collapse of the Sovjet-Union and the separation of Russians in various independant fromer Sovjet republics. The Putin regime is developping a sort of Nationalistic today version of the Sovjet state system in a state capitalist and state socialist version.
It was interesting to read your replies Pawian, to see a pragmatic Polish response to mister Tsipko's opinion. I think he sees Poland as an example for a future Russian policy, and that he wants to learn from Polish patriotism as a Russian patriot.
That in fact is very seldom, because most Russians in my view are not very interested in Poland, their country is big enough to be in a way a sort of Autarkic state.
Pieter
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