|
|
Post by Jaga on May 1, 2008 17:25:02 GMT -7
Jaga, I sympathize with the Palestinian people, I also sympathize with the Jewish people. The most humane outcome is a quick and decisive victory for one side or the other. On to Iran, For years the U.S. dollar was the only currency that oil was traded in. Saddam was the first to attempt trading oil in Euros only, You see what happened to him. Iran started an oil bourse that began operating in march of this year, trading only in Euros. You see what is likely to happen to them. Venezuela considered the same thing and is suddenly in the news. The oil producing countries are actively trying to destroy the U.S. currency, this is what Iraq was really about. It is what Iran will really be about. Tim Tim, I cannot agree that somehow Iran is responsible for a weakness of US dollar ?!? The US produce too much of paper money,just like Poland did 20-30 years ago. The US wants everybody to respect it and then buys much more products from China that it sells. I understand when Iran and other countries do not trust US dollar anymore. I think, the real loser will be China... stuck with low value dollars. Referring to Iran. Why Iran has to respect the US? US even supported Saddam in Iraq-Iran war which was started by Iraq? The US does everything to make the relationship with Iran more difficult, they threaten them etc. The fact that Iran, Venezuela, other countries trade in Euros is the biggest failure of Bush administration and its economical policies. You cannot blame it on Iran! |
|
|
|
Post by kaima on May 1, 2008 19:36:14 GMT -7
Interesting postings, Pieter. Thanks. It brings back memories of the Great Shah of Iran and how the western press and politicians spoke of the Shah in the Greatest of Complimentary Platitudes; He was certainly one of the wisest and beloved leaders of a nation on this earth.
The language I use may seem overblown, but the press and politicians really said only good of the Shah. That is why it was such a great shock when the revolution came and he was overthrow. I had to ask myself how a revolution could be generated against someone so beloved by his people.
The obvious answer is that he was not beloved, that he was feared and hated, and the western press totally failed to report these weaknesses, and the American politicians happily heard what they wanted to hear and pretended All was Right with the World.
Shades of Bush today. He and the neo-cons only want to believe all is rosy with their most excellent plans at home, in Iraq, and in the world.
It is good to be reminded of our failures so we can strive to do better.
Kai
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on May 1, 2008 21:10:39 GMT -7
|
|
tufta
Freshman Pole
Posts: 45
|
Post by tufta on May 2, 2008 2:45:26 GMT -7
Unfortunately Germany was involved in training the training the Libyan security forces in the past. And Germany was among Saddam Hussein's regime crucial military suppliers. Conventional military and technical business between Germany and Iraq lasted till 2001. That's ten years after the second Gulf war. International sanctions against Saddam Hussein were still in place. Hussein's Iraq and Libya were among the most relentless foes of Israel. Thus the Iraqi war...
The Israel's mentioned special place within the hearts and wallets in Germany must be really special.
|
|
|
|
Post by Atlantis5 on May 2, 2008 15:06:00 GMT -7
Unfortunately Germany was involved in training the training the Libyan security forces in the past. And Germany was among Saddam Hussein's regime crucial military suppliers. Conventional military and technical business between Germany and Iraq lasted till 2001. That's ten years after the second Gulf war. International sanctions against Saddam Hussein were still in place. Hussein's Iraq and Libya were among the most relentless foes of Israel. Thus the Iraqi war... The Israel's mentioned special place within the hearts and wallets in Germany must be really special. Tufta You are close, but not entirely correct. The money is sourced by the US not from the wallet of Germany. And yes, Germany is very large in the worlds arms market, but as so of Russia, USA,China,Egypt,France and Israel. Israel brokers a great deal in Arms in both the middle East and also of several African nations. It is business. In as much as Iraq, yes arms shipments were delivered to Iraq from Germany. A very large trade exchanged was with Russian Arms in as such. And Russian arms to the US with associated ammunition deliveries. It is an international business. In as much to International sanctions, yes of course. For this reason, is the role of arms brokers as a 3rd party, to keep the foreign militaries in operation. As for example: in the time of the Iranian/Iraqi war. The US was a Major arms supplier to the ruler prior to his death {Muhammad Reza Pahlavi} upon his death, then it was to the new ruler {Ayatollah Khomeini}. Israel at this time was the Major arms supplier to Iraq. It is not so strange the events as we see them, for their is a reasons for every thing, including your response to my post. This is how real life operates in our world we live in. International politics are what they are, political manoeuvre for a better seat in the house. Part of the problem is: The public is not always aware of this. Charles |
|
tufta
Freshman Pole
Posts: 45
|
Post by tufta on May 5, 2008 1:10:08 GMT -7
Charles, I'm afraid your post is way too incoherent. You state I am close but not quite correct, but you give no clue where in your opinion I am close to being correct and about what. Farther on you claim it is the US where the money Germany pays to Israel is raised, woooow! And you claim so in contrast to the previous statements of yours as to Israel's alleged special place in the German hearts and wallets. Finally you cite some scattered and unrelated facts on weapon trade exchange. While my point is extremely simple.
Germany with one hand pays lots to Israel for the bestialities of Holocaust, while with the other feeds (makes business if your prefer) Israel's foes.
As a side-note I must say that your pushy nationalistic attitude have caught my eye and I took an opportunity to read some of your last posts apart those clearly directed to me. So you're one of those arrogant German nationals Charles. Good Lord, I thought the species is close to extinct! Pleased to meet you but be warned, you're now getting into an exchanges with a Polish National, you possess very little desire to risk. At least that's what you said in a Polish-German relationship thread. So think it over beacuse if you do get involved I will probably bite your ear off all of a sudden if I can't bear your pushiness anymore. Is that what you're afraid of Panie Karolu?
Anyway, thanks for a nice piece of reading that at least caught my eye and woke me up to work after a very very long weekend we had here in Poland. In the meantime I hope your health problems get fixed. See you and ciao.
|
|
|
|
Post by Atlantis5 on May 5, 2008 5:05:06 GMT -7
Charles, I'm afraid your post is way too incoherent. You state I am close but not quite correct, but you give no clue where in your opinion I am close to being correct and about what. Farther on you claim it is the US where the money Germany pays to Israel is raised, woooow! And you claim so in contrast to the previous statements of yours as to Israel's alleged special place in the German hearts and wallets. Finally you cite some scattered and unrelated facts on weapon trade exchange. While my point is extremely simple. Germany with one hand pays lots to Israel for the bestialities of Holocaust, while with the other feeds (makes business if your prefer) Israel's foes. As a side-note I must say that your pushy nationalistic attitude have caught my eye and I took an opportunity to read some of your last posts apart those clearly directed to me. So you're one of those arrogant German nationals Charles. Good Lord, I thought the species is close to extinct! Pleased to meet you but be warned, you're now getting into an exchanges with a Polish National, you possess very little desire to risk. At least that's what you said in a Polish-German relationship thread. So think it over beacuse if you do get involved I will probably bite your ear off all of a sudden if I can't bear your pushiness anymore. Is that what you're afraid of Panie Karolu? Anyway, thanks for a nice piece of reading that at least caught my eye and woke me up to work after a very very long weekend we had here in Poland. In the meantime I hope your health problems get fixed. See you and ciao. Tufta I was not aware of a pushy attitude of my self, but then, we do not see our selves as others do. I do appreciate your speaking your mind. I will in short future be mind-full of my appearance. It no longer is a mystery to me of the Polish preoccupation of the war time years. For whilst on this forum, I have learnt more of what our history has not revealed. The war is long over and the damage rebuilt, but the people remain with the reminders and their memories. I think perhaps this is one of many differences we may have as a generalized statement. We know and remember, but we go on, for we are builders as may be evidenced by our business interest in your country, and in Russia. If there is a need, we {our industry} will attempt to fill it. You had mentioned of continued payments to Israel for war time injuries. I do believe that was concluded some years back, in as much to the remainders of former occupied countries. In recent years, there has evidenced a great many Israeli people immigrating here {Germany} for better safety and opportunities.{primarily in the high tech industry} for they for the most part, well educated and their is a need for this caliber of people. For with the high value of the euro against the dollar, it becomes very close in margin between profit and loss with foreign exports. To pile up more woes, many of our young people are not bothering to further their education in fields requiring advanced training, and as a result, more of those work positions are being filled by foreign born employees. Thus a prime reason I am still made to work. In our civil service structure, only a national will be allowed to work. As being my place in this scheme of things with foreign placement, it appears I must in this stead, look forward to another 2.5 years before possibility of release, this in self is a creator of personal irritations. Tufta, There is some thing to be considered of that I am confident you have brought to your mind. I am not the word of my country in as much as speaking for all. Of this I am confident you are aware. We do have our own in-house problems with our selves for as you are much aware of. Of also another matter of understanding. Even though your country boarders ours, for some reason, I have not encountered the opportunity for visit in Poland, with exceptions of sporadic visits across for a short time. Most logically, I should not be on this forum as it is for Polish folks as of your self. But, I am for the many friends that have shared their friendship with me, and of two special people. I realize of the instances of clash we may encounter, but, must all things be perfect? The wars were not good for us {European} nor the after math of Soviet occupation of many East countries including that of yours. I will speak for many of us with the people from The East Block {East Germany} there still remains a great deal of prejudice against them, also a great deal of complaint of the continuing high cost of rebuilding. It is not fair to them {East German citizens} for they were simply caught up in the occupation. But, still the prejudice carries through to the present. Charles |
|
|
|
Post by uncltim on May 5, 2008 17:09:33 GMT -7
Tufta,
Welcome to the forum!
I always appreciate people who speak their minds, This is why I also appreciate Charles.
There is nothing to be learned from people who agree with me. That is why I always enjoy conflicting opinions.
As a fat dumb American, I hope you won't mind me making an observation.
I am pleased to see both Poland and Germany have a resurgence in nationalism. for too long both countries have been occupied by outsiders. It is time for both nations to take their place in the world as the beautiful and unique nations and peoples that they are.
With regard to World War II, ( I don't know what it was called in Poland or Germany) There was no shortage of suffering for the Poles, Germans, Jews, British, French, Italians, or anyone else before, during, or long after the war. If I had to choose who suffered most during the war and after I may have to say it was the Russian people. I guess my point is that carrying animosity forward past this point is of no use. The people responsible are long dead.
Arms sales- Its better to arm a country with outside arms than sit by while they develop their own. At least you know what they have and how much they have. Its much better than driving them to the capability of their own designs. You can never stop a nation that chooses to arm itself.
I have rambled on long enough. As always, I welcome supporting, opposing, and irrelevant comments.
Tim
|
|
tufta
Freshman Pole
Posts: 45
|
Post by tufta on May 6, 2008 0:51:26 GMT -7
Charles.
There is no Polish preoccupation with war times. And there is no preoccupation with Germany in general. Today, you're well incorporated into the world of peaceful builders so nothing unexpected is to happen and the world community may profit from your work. But there is a preoccupation with Germans trying to play a victim of the war. And with Germans living in the past, unable to digest their defeats, mentioning the war whenever they catch a Pole to talk to. People's memories say the truth, you're as much builders as you are destroyers even if you'd like to stress only one part.
Let's come back to the topic. I regret you failed to express your mind on the main point. Germany both strengthening Israel and weakening Israel.
But at least you've said that
If the German payments to Israel are concluded, why have you mentioned, let me cite precicely Israel's 'special place within the hearts and wallets in Germany.' This is what interests me and I would welcome your opinion.
Tim
Pleased to meet you. I also appreciate fair exchange of opposing opinions. And I like humor, thank you! Can't live without for too long. I agree with almost everything you wrote which either means you lied to me at least once (when you said you're fat and dumb) or I am fat and dumb as well.
Now seriously – the only matter we disagree is comparing the fate of the nations during the war the way you did. Germans are not the victims of the war, they are the perpetrators. They have chosen Adolf Hitler in the democratic free elections and supported him to the very end. And they have prospered from the slave labour and from the things they stole from around Europe.
As said earlier with the rest of your post I agree. Or, maybe it was the Belarusins who lost the largest part of their population? I am not sure, I have to look it up.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimpres on May 10, 2008 13:43:35 GMT -7
And we (USA) keep funding Israel.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration appears set to offer Israel a powerful radar system that could greatly boost Israeli defenses against enemy ballistic missiles while tying it directly into a growing U.S. missile shield.
President George W. Bush is expected to discuss the matter during a visit to Israel on Wednesday to mark the 60th anniversary of the Jewish state amid mounting U.S. concerns about perceived threats from Iran, people familiar with the matter said.
|
|
