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Post by Jaga on Apr 4, 2008 12:40:42 GMT -7
Today I have heard in SPAN a person calling with a good idea how to finish Iraq war soon. Just to nationalize all the industries like it was during WW II. Many Republicans argue that the war with terror is the same as WW II. So why not? Instead of big corporations having the profits lets give everything to the government - build tanks instead of cars...
then many Americans would like to end this war soon!
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Post by kaima on Apr 4, 2008 13:28:19 GMT -7
Jaga,
Our industry in WW II was not nationalized. I am not sure what you would call the effort and coordination that was put out, but in America we have never refered to it as nationalization. Perhaps Franek will tell us what it worked like back then.
If we just turned conservative and started to tax the citizens to pay for the war as we go then there would be a rapid reaction and the people would toss the liberal spend-for-broke 'neo-cons' out of office for good this November. Their wild liberal economic spending has ruined this country. It will take us many decades to dig out of this hole and pay our debts to China and other lenders, and in the meantime they will be pulling strings directing our policies. We will pay for it just as the former East Block countries did - on the backs of the workers. Our standard of living will continue to decline - food and gas prices are just the start, our purchasing power is lost to debt - and only as we pay things off and build up 'productivity' with low wages will we start to catch up again. It took Poland and the rest of the East Block 15+ years to dig uot of the hole. I hope we can perform as quickly!
Oh, Harry Truman held Congressional hearings during WW II and found many profiteers and saved the gummn't much money. We don't have anyone with the leadership guts to do that today. Attacking Haliburton would be a political death sentence.
Kai
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Post by kaima on Apr 4, 2008 13:31:57 GMT -7
Other nations are accusing the US of never having developed clear war aims. The latest charges came out in this NATO summit in Romania. There also is no clear marker as to what it will take for us to declare victory. This prezident has produced no clear plans for any of that; I guess we have to wait for whoever follows. Until then the deaths will mount. It took 20,000 additional lives for Nixon to worm our way out of Vietnam... (apx. US 30,000 dead when he started, & 50+ 000 by the time we left in 74).
Kai
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Post by Jaga on Apr 4, 2008 21:22:36 GMT -7
Kai, at least some industries were nationalized, below is from Wikipedia: All United States railroads were nationalized as the United States Railroad Administration during World War I as a wartime measure but were returned to their private owners almost immediately after the war. The National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) was a government-owned corporation created in 1971 for the express purpose of relieving American railroads of their legal obligation to provide inter-city rail service. They were trying to get out of this obligation anyway, but by taking over their passenger rail assets, Amtrak was able to keep the passenger trains running. In 1976 the Consolidated Rail Corporation (Conrail), another government corporation, was created to take over the operations of six bankrupt rail lines operating primarily in the Northeastern United States; Conrail was privatized in 1987. Initial plans for Conrail would have made it a truly nationalized system like that during World War I, but an alternate proposal by the Association of American Railroads won out. Organization of the Tennessee Valley Authority entailed the nationalization of the facilities of the former Tennessee Electric Power Company in 1939. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalization
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Post by Jaga on Apr 5, 2008 10:44:26 GMT -7
+++If we just turned conservative and started to tax the citizens to pay for the war as we go then there would be a rapid reaction and the people would toss the liberal spend-for-broke 'neo-cons' out of office for good this November.+++
Also if we would start a draft people would change their opinion about the war.
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Post by Atlantis5 on Apr 5, 2008 11:31:12 GMT -7
Ok, all things are simple, it is to people to develop that of what is complicated. If one is accustomed to government, then the simple is apparent.
Removal of all {ALL} funding. With no funding, nothing and i mean nothing, operates with out funding.
Charles
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Post by kaima on Apr 6, 2008 18:57:09 GMT -7
The thought just struck me that we only need to apply the same standards to Iraq that we apply to America. We have succeeded in getting rid of all weapons of mass destruction, kicking Saddam out and all of the other 'reasons' invented to go into Iraq, so now we can drop the premise of bringing 'democracy' to the country. Many conservative Americans are proud to point out that the US is a Republic, not a democracy. Why should we then attempt to 'bring democracy' to Iraq? Why not apply the US model, declare the fact that it is a Republic, and let the Iraquis hash out the details in a civil war?
Up till now no one in the US has given clear metrics (measuring points) on when we will be ready to go home, so we are free to determine that ourselves.
Republic it is! We can even loan them a slightly used / experienced Republican President who will be looking for work next January.
Kai
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Post by Atlantis5 on Apr 7, 2008 8:03:56 GMT -7
The thought just struck me that we only need to apply the same standards to Iraq that we apply to America. We have succeeded in getting rid of all weapons of mass destruction, kicking Saddam out and all of the other 'reasons' invented to go into Iraq, so now we can drop the premise of bringing 'democracy' to the country. Many conservative Americans are proud to point out that the US is a Republic, not a democracy. Why should we then attempt to 'bring democracy' to Iraq? Why not apply the US model, declare the fact that it is a Republic, and let the Iraquis hash out the details in a civil war? Up till now no one in the US has given clear metrics (measuring points) on when we will be ready to go home, so we are free to determine that ourselves. Republic it is! We can even loan them a slightly used / experienced Republican President who will be looking for work next January. Kai Good points all Kai, certainly do have my full agreement! In due respect, I would not tend to belive the Iraqi goverment is in much want. For that of what they may, to milk out revenue out of the American occupation as much as time will allow, and with this, syphine off oil renues into as many private accountes as possible before becoming caught, then suffer the embarrassement of having their hand slapped, before returning to work-as-usual. It would seem as also, they {Iraq Goverment} do have some corner cash to spend on air transportation. For of late, they were able to raise the amount of: $239 Million {American dollars} for purchase of 6 CRJ900 NextGen Airliners with a brokered deal with Bombardier. middleeastaviation.aero/news/airline/8101/59/Bombardier+Sells+Six+CRJ900+NextGen+Airliners+To+IraqCharles
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Post by uncltim on Apr 7, 2008 15:59:04 GMT -7
Its time to let the iraqis fight it out. We are only stopping their civil war temporarily. Saddam is gone and so should we be. Iraq has been given an opportunity and it is theirs to use or squander as they see fit.
Tim
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Post by Atlantis5 on Apr 8, 2008 7:17:29 GMT -7
Its time to let the iraqis fight it out. We are only stopping their civil war temporarily. Saddam is gone and so should we be. Iraq has been given an opportunity and it is theirs to use or squander as they see fit. Tim This is a very truthful statement Tim! And it will be so in time. With the demise of the strongman, there is no strong control to govern the people. An army of occupation will burn out in time, and it is time that will rid Iraq of the forces of occupation. Iraq belongs to the Iraqi people, it must be their government, their manner of life, their manner of conducting business. They know their business best, for it is the land between the two rivers as the separation from other lands. Charles
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Post by Jaga on Apr 8, 2008 22:29:25 GMT -7
Iraq now as compared to before the war (from the testimonies today with gen.Petraeus:
43% of population lives in absolute poverty prior to war 19% of children suffered malnutrition; today 28% last year 75% elementary-aged kids went to school; now 30% prior to war 50% lacked access to clean water; now 70% only 50 of 142 primary health care centes are open to public
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Post by kaima on Apr 8, 2008 23:23:23 GMT -7
Well, as a last resort we can blame the failure of the war on the "liberal media". Look at the crap they have been putting out, like this cartoon from War Year One:
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Post by freetobe on Apr 9, 2008 18:30:28 GMT -7
Iraqis fight it out? What makes you or others believe this will solve any thing.? Wow I would love to see our guys and gals come home and I pray they do real soon. Unfortunately, this is not a wave the flag conflict, but a greedy fight over oil, complicated by religious zealots and terroists. Will we ever know the true story of 9/11? The movies about this attack depict the horrorible loss of innocent civilian lives, the heroics of the rescuers and the sad aftermath. All very patriotic as it should be. The bottom line, the Bush administration has perpertrated anarchy in a country that was supposed to be democratically stabilised by the overthrow of Hussein. If the Iraqis were left to fight it out, the anarchy, terrorism will continue.Not much better then the Soviets in Afganistan Wonder if Bush and Putin compare notes on thier respective failures? Do I have an answer? No, emphatically!! Does any one? Ahh, enough, I'm going fishing.
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Post by uncltim on Apr 9, 2008 19:23:20 GMT -7
FTB, I dont have any answers either. I'm tired of being misled. Tired of only having crappy choices. I can tell you what my heart says, It says something like this: I know you don't like me much, but I'm with you.
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Post by jimpres on Apr 9, 2008 20:02:57 GMT -7
We could just get all the troops out. Then wait for the civil war to start and see who joins in. Arabs have been trying to conquer the world for centuries and will continue. Really don't have a good answer. Will Iran try to dominate the world? SA has bought most of the world already.
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