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Post by Jaga on Nov 19, 2005 16:39:49 GMT -7
Quick reply Jaga, yes the analogy to WW2 is good! Why? If Hitler had been taken out in the early 1930's when there were a lot of riots in Germany don't you think that there may have been no WW2 in Europe. In 1936 there were a lot of leaders from different countries that said Hitler and his party were doing great things for Germany. As an analogy: Different thoughts for different people but, the same goal; the betterment of humanity. Bob, no, the analogy with WW II is not good. Saddam did already passed his period of wars. He was pretty much confined, he could not start another war. Again, lots of speculations. In American people are enchanted by personalities. They talk about Hitler, Stalin, film stars and like these people ruled the world. This is a naive approach to history and politics. Signle person rarely can influence the world that much. These people are also only parts of the machines. WW II was not only Hitler! Communism was not only Lenin or Stalin! It would be great if Hitler would not be able to start a governemnt but ... the situation in Germany was in that time very difficult, they could have another Hitler also. Look at other leaders of this time, general Franko, Mussolini in Italy and his fashists, Japan. Still, I do not want to justify Hitler or Saddam. But - do not try to simplify things. Yes, Saddam is gone and with him tens of thousands of more or less guilty Iraqis, over 2 thousands of American soldiers, Hundreds of billions of dollars. In the beginnning of the war there were 2 soldiers dead for day now, it is more like 10....
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Post by jimpres on Nov 19, 2005 20:11:38 GMT -7
Jaga, Your right no one person can be the reason for the wars. They can however persuade other to join them and pursue their ideas. And as far as American people being enchanted by personalities, that is the propaganda of the media. Film stars are just people who are play acting. And the Hitlers etc. are just the figure heads of a particular regime ala Sadam and his cronies.
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Post by Jaga on Nov 20, 2005 9:51:21 GMT -7
Jaga I will make this short and simple. If there is a nest of Rattlesnakes living near my porch, I will take out the Rattlesnakes before they can bite me or my family. If my neighbor hates me, wishes me dead and broadcasts this for everyone to hear and then starts building a cannon that is aimed at my house, I will take out that person before the cannon is fired. I think that if England and America had signed a non-agression pact with Hitler and then merely observed, the outcome of the 1940's would have been a lot different. If good people just stood aside and observed than the people with evil intentions would triumph. The only true and lasting peace belongs to those who have died. strife in life is the norm and not the exception. Bob, I am sorry to quote you again but I got a different analogy. lets assume there was a nest of rattlesnakes who were bugging you but... you knew them and you were able to protect yourself from them but then.. you decided to destroy them unaware that if you destroy them that would be much more other rattlesnakes coming from around. So, you have shaken one nest and then in the effect you made the situation much worse.... this would be analogy how i see this world. Alqueda was not in Iraq during Saddam, Sadddam was not a reigious fanatic, but Alqueda is in Iraq now and more motivaed than ever before
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Post by kaima on Nov 21, 2005 1:06:05 GMT -7
Jaga, Your right no one person can be the reason for the wars. They can however persuade other to join them and pursue their ideas. And as far as American people being enchanted by personalities, that is the propaganda of the media. Film stars are just people who are play acting. And the Hitlers etc. are just the figure heads of a particular regime ala Sadam and his cronies. Jim, I will agree with Jaga on this one. Americans are quite taken by "cults of personality" as we used to say about the Soviet Union. If you look at America we look at foreign leaders and domestic as icons that are far more than human. Currently we have about 50% of the nation that think Bush walks on water and they cannot imagine being critical of anything he does. That is today. In the past we have had Reagan & JFK & FDR that the American public either adored or hated - but they led. Overseas we have faced great uncertainty at the changes in leadership. Starting with the fall of Kruchev, Americans worried about who would follow him, as we had no faith that they had established a governing body beyond the cult that followed Stalin, yet his fellow commies carried on smoothly and without sabre rattling. Then there was Gorbechov and according to Americans, the sun rose and set by him! We survived the uncertainty of alcoholic Yeltsin and are now into believeing Putin is the Savior of Russia and "democracy" in Russia, and we probably support democracy in Russia as long as he stays in charge. Then there are those we hate - personifying evil in Castro and the Red Chinese, then , Marcos & Noriega after they no longer fit our needs as friendly dictators. Our of 150+ dictators and murderers in the world we decided Saddam was worth taking out. Now we need to get the other 149, after the politiicans (and the ?left leaning?) press that supports the politicians paints the next nasty guy as the devil. Oh, yes, Americans do quite well and seem to insist on being "enchanted by personalities". Kai
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Post by justjohn on Nov 21, 2005 6:37:00 GMT -7
[/quote] Bob, . you decided to destroy them unaware that if you destroy them they would be much more other rattlesnakes coming from around. So, you have shaken one nest and then in the effect you made the situation much worse.... this would be analogy how i see this world. Alqueda was not in Iraq during Saddam, Sadddam was not a reigious fanatic, but Alqueda is in Iraq now and more motivaed than ever before[/quote] What if you were aware that the destruction of one nest will stir up others. What if you decided that it is better to confront them with our military then our civilians. What if this wart of a sandbar (Iraq) is an ideal place to confront the aggregated AlQueda fighters and eliminate some of their home territories. What if these assumptions also place a very ready, willing and able strike force within the area of operations of major oil deposits. What if they support the completion and operation of major pipelines within the area of operations. ie: Afganista - Iraq - Pakistan - Most other -stans) What if they present a major military force on the western front of China. I don't know - - just thinking out loud.
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Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
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Post by Bob S on Nov 21, 2005 21:13:23 GMT -7
;D Hey Skeeter. Every "What if" is valid. Another "what if", What if we could predict the future and put our money there, Voila, no more money worries. If a fortune teller is so good, why don't they win the lottery? If fortune are so good, why do they have to work at making a living? Just wondering out loud. ;D
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