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Post by jimpres on Mar 17, 2009 16:21:26 GMT -7
Karl, Kai,
I'm not sure what will happen to our system such as it is. I have medicare and since I am not ill it does nothing for me. In fact I was forced to pay for the prescription drug insurance even though I don't take any. In fact I was charged for the years I was in Poland and did not use it.
I have a rider Humana in case I need dental or eye care. So that is extra on top of Medicare.
In Poland it was easy and you just went to the hospital or clinic and say a Doctor. Sometimes the lines were long but all in all it was accessible in about a week or so. And if you wanted the same Dr's would see you independently if you wanted to pay. So both socialized care was available and if you wanted to pay you could do that as well.
Here you go with your cards and give them to the receptionist for service and she says well they are not accepting the card and giving the discount. So you get the bill mail it to your provider Humana in my case and wait to be reimbursed. Then you on line after a month and find out the payment back to you is pending.
In Poland you pay/or not as you go.
Jim
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Post by tuftabis on Mar 19, 2009 2:47:04 GMT -7
Tuftabis, It is always nice to know even more about Communist Poland than I know now, because you and Pawian provided me with great information and images about that tragic and absurt period in Polish history. It really has something Kafkaesk like his book The Trial. And ofcourse I read the translated Polish writers in Dutch. Tadeusz Konwicki with his novel A Minor Apocalypse (Mała apokalipsa, 1983), Andrzejewski's book Tuhkaa ja timanttia ("Ashes and Diamonds "), and Tadeusz Borowski's Proszę państwa do gazu (This Way for the Gas, Ladies and Gentlemen), amongst others I can't recall. Dear Pieter, I have read your postings thoroughly now. You have an unabridged knowledge about Poland's past, that's for sure. I regret very much that this very period I have so little time. It is interesting to learn how much you know, what you know and what you don't know. The books and authors you've mentioned are important to get the image what happened in Poland, after... well I have trouble pointing out the 'fundamental' date  After 1947? Too late! 45? Same. Got it! After Molotov-Ribbentrop secret pact, yes, that's the turning point. If you want to go further into 20th century's second half history of Polish literature. Well, if you want to read some great literature at the same time here are the author's names that come to mind in the moment. But I don't know and don't have the time now to search, what was and what wasn't translated. Anyway: Janusz Szpotański Tadeusz Konwicki Stefan Kiesielewski Tadeusz Różewicz Józef Mackiewicz Gustaw Herling-Grudziński Marek Nowakowski Marek Hłasko Janusz Głowacki they have dealt with communism in Poland and not just in Poland intensively in their works. |
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Post by tuftabis on Mar 19, 2009 2:52:12 GMT -7
Tuftabis, What I also learned from my mother was that after the second world war.................. Yes your mother told you all the truth! |
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Post by pieter on Mar 19, 2009 9:48:06 GMT -7
Tuftabis, It is always nice to know even more about Communist Poland than I know now, because you and Pawian provided me with great information and images about that tragic and absurt period in Polish history. It really has something Kafkaesk like his book The Trial. And ofcourse I read the translated Polish writers in Dutch. Tadeusz Konwicki with his novel A Minor Apocalypse (Mała apokalipsa, 1983), Andrzejewski's book Tuhkaa ja timanttia ("Ashes and Diamonds "), and Tadeusz Borowski's Proszę państwa do gazu (This Way for the Gas, Ladies and Gentlemen), amongst others I can't recall. Dear Pieter, I have read your postings thoroughly now. You have an unabridged knowledge about Poland's past, that's for sure. I regret very much that this very period I have so little time. It is interesting to learn how much you know, what you know and what you don't know. The books and authors you've mentioned are important to get the image what happened in Poland, after... well I have trouble pointing out the 'fundamental' date After 1947? Too late! 45? Same. Got it! After Molotov-Ribbentrop secret pact, yes, that's the turning point. If you want to go further into 20th century's second half history of Polish literature. Well, if you want to read some great literature at the same time here are the author's names that come to mind in the moment. But I don't know and don't have the time now to search, what was and what wasn't translated. Anyway: Janusz Szpotański Tadeusz Konwicki Stefan Kiesielewski Tadeusz Różewicz Józef Mackiewicz Gustaw Herling-Grudziński Marek Nowakowski Marek Hłasko Janusz Głowacki they have dealt with communism in Poland and not just in Poland intensively in their works. Tuftabis, I talked about the Communist era, but you are right that the troubles started earlier, much earlier. First of all the brutal Czarist Russian occupation of Poland with it's Russification policies, and the Prussians did their bid of opression in the Western half of Poland. In 1920 the Sovjets tried to conquer Poland and yes the vicious Molotov-Ribbentrop pact continued that vicious legacy of attack and opression. The Russian occupation of Eastern-Poland between 1939 and 1941 did great harm to Poland and the Poles in that region. I know it from family stories my mother told me. The husbant of my babcia's sister was executed as a Polish officer in Katyn. Other familymembers were placed in Sovjet prisons and tortered in the cold room, some sent to Siberia. An uncle escaped with Anders army to Palestine and later fought in the famous battle of Monte Casino. Polish intelligentsia and civilians were hunted like large game. Even Polish communists were trialed, put in prison and killed en mass during the Great Purge. |
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Post by pieter on Mar 19, 2009 11:20:22 GMT -7
Read about how the Sovjets or Russian Stalinists dealt with the Polish Communists, and especially in the period 1926–1938: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_PolandPolish communismPolish communists can trace their origins to early 1800s, as is the case in nearby countries. The first significant Polish Marxist, Stanisław Brzozowski (1878-1911). During the interwar period in the Second Polish Republic, some Polish communists formed a political party, the Communist Party of Poland( Komunistyczna Partia Polski, KPP). Among their thinkers was James Bolowski. Most of the original KPP members and leaders perished during Stalin's Great Purge.In 1943, Stalin made efforts to rebuild Polish communist party. He created Union of Polish Patriots, to become an agent to aid the legitimization of puppet state he planned to set up in war-ridden Poland. This led to the creation of People's Republic of Poland and Polish United Workers' Party. Having little popularity, majority of Polish communists were dependent on support of the Soviet Union. There were also repeated attempts by some Polish academics and philosophers, like Leszek Kołakowski, Tadeusz Kotarbiński, Kazimierz Ajdukiewicz and Stanisław Ossowski to develop, as a slowly eroding opposition, a specific form of Polish Marxism. While their attempts to create a bridge between Poland's history and Soviet Marxism ideology were mildly successful, especially in comparison to similar efforts in most other countries of the Eastern Bloc, they have been to much extent stifled by the regime's unwillingness to step too far and risk the wrath of Soviets for going to far from the Soviet party line. In modern Poland, post-1989, communists have a minimal impact on political and economical life of the country. However some former communists, who were in their thirties during the fall of communism and took part in it, building the free, post-soviet political system, still remained active on the political scene. Their party, SLD, is center-left and is one of the major political parties in Poland. |
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Mary
Junior Member
Posts: 934
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Post by Mary on Mar 20, 2009 16:39:13 GMT -7
Pieter,
I enjoy your posts on the history of Poland. Thank you for the great effort you take!
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Post by tuftabis on Apr 2, 2009 1:53:56 GMT -7
Tadeusz Konwicki with his novel A Minor Apocalypse (Mała apokalipsa, 1983), A little present for you , Pieter Tadeusz Konwicki today (well, yesterday) ona Warsaw street  |
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2009 7:29:35 GMT -7
Pieter, I enjoy your posts on the history of Poland. Thank you for the great effort you take! Mary, You're welcome, but know that I learnt a great deal and stil learn from our Polish friends from Warszawa and Krakow who were and are active on the Forum! I learnt from Adam, Bunjo (Wojtek), Tuftabis, Zooba, Jaga, Jerzy and Pawian amongst others! Next to that I owe a lot to the Dutch writer of Polish-Jewish descent (raised in a Polish speaking, Polonist Jewish family from Lwov/Lviv/Lemberg) Milo Anstadt, who wrote a book about Poland and a book about Polish-Jewish relations; The Poles and the jews! He always stayed in contact with Poland, travelled to Poland, has Polish friends and a Polish passport until today! And ofcourse I know what my "Polish"-Dutch mother, my babcia and Jadek told me! Poles in Poland in 1984, 1988, 2004 and 2006 told me a lot about Polish history too! As a newspaper, magazine, essay, historybook, encyclopedia and website junkie I also read a lot about Poland, what Dutch, German, British (Norman Davies), American and Polish historians wrote about the country of my ancesters, family and old friends and colleages of my mother. Poland lives in me through the distant contact with Poles who feed me with knowledge and information. Sometimes only with subtle gestures, answers, nodds, describing situations, showing images and talking about personal memories and their views! Contact with Poland and Poles is important for me, even though I don't find the right kind of Poles in my environment! I have to go back soon! Being in Warszawa in 2006 and seeing the place where my grandparents, mother and aunt lived in the twenties and thirties in Mokotov was very important to me! In that august of 2006 Warsaw got roots for me and became real, because there was a real visible connection, a real history that is connected to me! My grandfather witnessed the first world war as a Czarist officer in the Russian army, the Russian Oktober revolution in Saint Petersburg (which nearly costed his life), the 1920 Polish-Sovjet war, the period of the Sanacia regime of Pilsudski and the Colonels regime (1935-1939), the second world war, the Stalinist terror of 1944-1956 and the Polish communist system until his death in 1976 in Poznan when he was driven over by a drunken Polish driver on a Zebra crossing! He had an extremely interesting life in which he witnessed the changes of the 20th century, being born in the 19th century. If you add to that the personal biographies of my babcia, and the many aunts and uncles of the Kotowicz, Pantoflinski, Kalinovski (and etc.) families you have a Polish history of a century. Next to that I have learned from all of the family histories on this Forum and the participation of the people I mentioned here above. Pieter |
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2009 7:40:18 GMT -7
Tadeusz Konwicki with his novel A Minor Apocalypse (Mała apokalipsa, 1983), A little present for you , Pieter Tadeusz Konwicki today (well, yesterday) ona Warsaw street Tufta, Thanks, that is a nice image of dear old Tadeusz, about which novel the Little Apocalyps I burst out in laughter, because of the incredible absurd situation the dissident writer, who is the head figure is placed into! It's deeply tragical and sad, but written with such a Polish kind of irony, that it is briliant! This is a description of a typical Polish situation, between the party and the church, between the Underground and the official society. About a desilusioned writer with a writersblock, who is forced by the pressure of the Polish underground and his admirers to take a stance, an sacrifice himself! I stil remember the student admirer who follows him with a can of patrol, pressuring him to fullfil his heroic act! This is so typical Polish that the story could not have been situated in any other country, because of the Polish church, the Polish party and the Polish underground dissident movement. Pieter |
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Post by tuftabis on Apr 3, 2009 4:24:50 GMT -7
It's deeply tragical and sad, but written with such a Polish kind of irony, that it is briliant! This is a description of a typical Polish situation, between the party and the church, between the Underground and the official society. About a desilusioned writer with a writersblock, who is forced by the pressure of the Polish underground and his admirers to take a stance, Yes, yes, exactly, Pieter! It is silghtly similar to the situation of Jacek Kaczmarski, a poet, but a real person several years later and some of his songs-poems that were always interpreted by the audience as a voice supporting one side. While the writer, the poet, the creator actually almost always talks is his work about the general phenomena and is critical to any signs of evil or wrongdoings no matter where they come from. We could say a genius wears or knows no political colour! Konwicki is one of the most outstanding authors in the long line of important writers who depicted Warsaw in their prose. If one wants to learn how was life in Warsaw at the end of 19 century one needs to read 'Doll' by Bolesław Prus (probably the best novel I ever read). www.amazon.com/Doll-Central-European-Classics/dp/1858660653If one wants to learn how was life in Warsaw under 'middle' communism one needs Konwicki (and Marek Nowakowski). But expect no mercy! Konwicki presents Warsaw under communism, the degraded, betrayed, deceived, also self-deceived, city with something hard to name but closest is cruel meticulousness. Since you read Little Apocalypse you know that wandering around the city with the vagabond was not nice at all. This 'almost cruelty' is magnified by the personal loss of the city of Konwicki's youth- Wilno, where he grown up. And thus there is another Konwicki in his works, apart from extremely intelligent, wise, merciless but sweetly ironic dweller of downtown Warsaw. There's a lyrical, gentle, peotical inhabitant of the land of romantics. The mixture I personally find so very much Polish. |
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Post by pieter on Apr 4, 2009 10:21:59 GMT -7
It's deeply tragical and sad, but written with such a Polish kind of irony, that it is briliant! This is a description of a typical Polish situation, between the party and the church, between the Underground and the official society. About a desilusioned writer with a writersblock, who is forced by the pressure of the Polish underground and his admirers to take a stance, Yes, yes, exactly, Pieter! It is silghtly similar to the situation of Jacek Kaczmarski, a poet, but a real person several years later and some of his songs-poems that were always interpreted by the audience as a voice supporting one side. While the writer, the poet, the creator actually almost always talks is his work about the general phenomena and is critical to any signs of evil or wrongdoings no matter where they come from. We could say a genius wears or knows no political colour! Konwicki is one of the most outstanding authors in the long line of important writers who depicted Warsaw in their prose. If one wants to learn how was life in Warsaw at the end of 19 century one needs to read 'Doll' by Bolesław Prus (probably the best novel I ever read). www.amazon.com/Doll-Central-European-Classics/dp/1858660653If one wants to learn how was life in Warsaw under 'middle' communism one needs Konwicki (and Marek Nowakowski). But expect no mercy! Konwicki presents Warsaw under communism, the degraded, betrayed, deceived, also self-deceived, city with something hard to name but closest is cruel meticulousness. Since you read Little Apocalypse you know that wandering around the city with the vagabond was not nice at all. This 'almost cruelty' is magnified by the personal loss of the city of Konwicki's youth- Wilno, where he grown up. And thus there is another Konwicki in his works, apart from extremely intelligent, wise, merciless but sweetly ironic dweller of downtown Warsaw. There's a lyrical, gentle, peotical inhabitant of the land of romantics. The mixture I personally find so very much Polish. Tuftabis, Well well said Tuftabis, your accurate and almost literairy critic description of Jacek Kaczmarski and Tadeusz Konwicki merges with my memories of the Polish books of Polish authors I read and the intelligent familymembers and friends of my mother I met in Poland. These people were of the level of gymnasium teachers, professors, architects and accountants. One uncle was a theatre actor, who first lived in Poznan and later moved to Łódź, had this tipical Polish sense of humor of the Little Apocalyps, in which mocking the system, being critical of the second power the church and Polish selfmockery or putting things into perspective give that Polish atmosphere and mentality, I haven't found in for instance the Czech republic (Prague) or Hungary (Budapest) whom national writers I read also! Yes, I read other translated novels of Konwicky as well, and I remember the dark, psychological and sociological themes, the polarisation between the Stalnist or Communist Poles and "the resistance". The ugly, rude, obscure, nasty, uncivilized and unsympathetic characters. If it was'nt written so marvelously and exellently translated I would not could have finished the novels, because of the heavy subject and the sadness it would evoke on my allready sombre, melancholic, sensetive and rooted in history being. I read a lot of Polish writers in the eightees and remember that my mother could not read them, because the novels were so heavy, dark and pessimistic. They merged with her memories, and that was to much. She needed positivity and wanted the good memories to prevail, and focuss on her contacts with Poland and America. Her last Polish language and cultural lifelines! My Polish grandmother died in 1987 in Poznan after her sister died in 1981. Her closest family had passed away and she only had her memories left, her Polish section of the family library and her Polish encyclopedia, she looks in if she tries to find some historical or cultural information. I remember reading about the post war struggle between the Zrzeszenie Wolność i Niezawisłość WiN (anti-cummunist resistance) and the Communist Urząd Bezpieczeństwa in the late fourtees, in which Konwicki described the Polish Communist characters and the mentality and the struggle of the resistance fighters very well. Being critical towards both, and desribing the deplorable human conditions in Stalinist Poland. The goast and devastation of the fresh history of Nazism in the back and the presence and future years of Stalinist darkness in the present and near future were nearly visible in that book. I hope that it was a Konwicki novel, because booktitels in Dutch are differant from the English translations! I remember a novel with a title like " the white villa" or something like that! Pieter |
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