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Post by leslie on Nov 5, 2006 11:53:24 GMT -7
Charles I always seem to be disagreeing with thou a lot these days! I greet someone whom I hardly know as 'you' - never 'Sir' unless he has a lot more money/position than me, or he has been knighted. People I know are still just 'you'. The 'thou' on the first line of this posting is never used nowadays.
On another 'hit' - I thought your computer didn't have a spell check!!!!! ;D (Again only an English joke!!)
Thy good friend Leslie
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Post by bescheid on Nov 5, 2006 12:11:25 GMT -7
Charles wrote Charles even we educated English (and even more so the Scots and Welsh) have often the same problem. But what about Polish, Hungarian, Czech, Russian, Greek etc?! Dr Johnson commented to Boswell that he had met a Polish man with 17 letters in his name but not one vowel - easy to spell?! Is spelling or mis-spelling not a common problem in most languages (even German)? Leslie Leslie and Charles, I had great difficulty with both the German and English grammars, because I had it difficult with grammar in general. So also with Dutch and French (I had French in the first three years of my highschool, dropped it in the third, so that I would make it to my exams). When you have already difficult with your own grammar/spelling, than other languages are even more difficult. I realy stuggled and fought with English and German between the age of 12 and 19. German was important, because it was my communication tool with my Polish grandmother. German has the four nouns (die, der, das, die), differant rules then Dutch, and many complicated words (Germans are specialists in long words). I am thankful for my father who helped me with my German, and bought Der Spiegel and the Frankfurther Allgemeine for me in my final year at high school. Reading that magazine and newspaper helped me passing my German written and oral exams. (In Dutch you have three sorts of langauge exams, (1) literature; you have to describe the books you read for your list, (2) a written exam about German essays from the German press, analysing texts, answering questions that are asked in a multiple choice list). I got over my troubles with English by going to a summer course in Oxford in july 1989, which was a great international experiance, and improved my English a lot. I would like to advertise language courses to anyone, weather it is in Great Brittain, France, Poland or Germany-Szwitserland! Polish: www.polonicum.uw.edu.pl/poden.php?id=centrumwww.polishsummer.com/For learning German: www.goethe.de/www.lemania.com/language-courses/ssdfdb.htmFor learning French: www.alliancefr.org/For learning (British) English: www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/www.britishcouncil.org/For learning Spanish: www.spanishinstitute.org/For learning Italian: www.linguasi.it/I did not know that German was so well taught in Dutch schools, this would be an added complication in your learning of Grammer... My first learning of English was Canadian. It was a lot of work...but what did help was the simularities of English words being that of German, so that was some help, but tricky at times. The transition to American English was subtle but non-the-less tricky. It is the American differeance in spelling some words, for some reason, I have never determined why it should be differant as it was from the British to begine with. My French is enough to keep from being poisoned in a restaurant and to read road signs by. And being not a very good linguist, my Russian is all but dissapeard, and my Niedersächsischen was transcended into high German. Charles
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Post by bescheid on Nov 5, 2006 12:37:53 GMT -7
Charles I always seem to be disagreeing with thou a lot these days! I greet someone whom I hardly know as 'you' - never 'Sir' unless he has a lot more money/position than me, or he has been knighted. People I know are still just 'you'. The 'thou' on the first line of this posting is never used nowadays. On another 'hit' - I thought your computer didn't have a spell check!!!!! ;D (Again only an English joke!!) Thy good friend Leslie Leslie You are and always will be,,,,,a kind heart This is interesting though of what you have mentioned with a first meeting. I still upon first greeting still use {Sir} or with that of answering to a higher level of authority. After a 2nd meeting though, I will use a first name perhaps, or the use of {Mr.}. Depending upon the person, sensitivity and nationality. By habit, upon shaking a persons hand in greeting, I will look eye to eye as I want to know where this person is. With some, this is an insult. It can be tricky. Also in the hand shake. Many Arabs do not use a firm hand shake, they use the limp wrist type. It seems washy, but, that is their way. In introductions, I will most always use the {Mr. and Mrs.} or in the case of an un-married couple in a very in-formal situation, just first names and let them figure it out afterwards if they wish for others to know their last names. With the ladies, to play it safe, simply I would primarly make the introduction as first name and last name only. If she should so desire, then she has the option to introduce her self as Mrs. Or Miss. Many of the prior social events attended, were actual traps for head hunters. So a little caution was often enough as survival in the high seas laden with sharks. But, for would I be explaining all of this, for you are the world traveller with your training business. Charles
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Post by pieter on Nov 6, 2006 9:27:18 GMT -7
Leslie and Charles, I had great difficulty with both the German and English grammars, because I had it difficult with grammar in general. So also with Dutch and French (I had French in the first three years of my highschool, dropped it in the third, so that I would make it to my exams). When you have already difficult with your own grammar/spelling, than other languages are even more difficult. I realy stuggled and fought with English and German between the age of 12 and 19. German was important, because it was my communication tool with my Polish grandmother. German has the four nouns (die, der, das, die), differant rules then Dutch, and many complicated words (Germans are specialists in long words). I am thankful for my father who helped me with my German, and bought Der Spiegel and the Frankfurther Allgemeine for me in my final year at high school. Reading that magazine and newspaper helped me passing my German written and oral exams. (In Dutch you have three sorts of langauge exams, (1) literature; you have to describe the books you read for your list, (2) a written exam about German essays from the German press, analysing texts, answering questions that are asked in a multiple choice list). I got over my troubles with English by going to a summer course in Oxford in july 1989, which was a great international experiance, and improved my English a lot. I would like to advertise language courses to anyone, weather it is in Great Brittain, France, Poland or Germany-Szwitserland! Polish: www.polonicum.uw.edu.pl/poden.php?id=centrumwww.polishsummer.com/For learning German: www.goethe.de/www.lemania.com/language-courses/ssdfdb.htmFor learning French: www.alliancefr.org/For learning (British) English: www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/www.britishcouncil.org/For learning Spanish: www.spanishinstitute.org/For learning Italian: www.linguasi.it/I did not know that German was so well taught in Dutch schools, this would be an added complication in your learning of Grammer... My first learning of English was Canadian. It was a lot of work...but what did help was the simularities of English words being that of German, so that was some help, but tricky at times. The transition to American English was subtle but non-the-less tricky. It is the American differeance in spelling some words, for some reason, I have never determined why it should be differant as it was from the British to begine with. My French is enough to keep from being poisoned in a restaurant and to read road signs by. And being not a very good linguist, my Russian is all but dissapeard, and my Niedersächsischen was transcended into high German. Charles Charles, German is well taught in Dutch schools, because it is our biggest neigbour, most important trade partner, European colleage in the EU, and because there is a lot of border traffice and huge German tourism in the Netherlands (The Germans are the largest toursit group). Many Germans have houses at the Dutch coast, and a lot of Dutch people live just over the border in Germany. Other Dutch people live, work and study in German cities. There are also quite a few Dutch-German marriages and relationships. Does Canada has a differant kind of grammar than the USA and the UK?. Yes, both English and German are Germanistic languages, like Dutch, Flemish and Frisian. American English is sometimes completely differant from the UK English. I learned the British English on school ofcourse. I don't know if that is recognisable for the American participants on this Forum. When I look in my English dictionairy, than I search for British English words and use them in discussions in these boards. My biggest desires in life are to learn French and Polish! Your Niedersächsischen language, was it simular to the Danish language, German with a Danish accent, like we have Dutch dialects in the East with German accents? In the neigbourhood of Arnhem you have towns where they use the german "Geht" to go somewhere, in staid of the Dutch "gaan". Pieter
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Post by constantine on Nov 8, 2006 4:05:17 GMT -7
I like a sound of Russian language in songs and stories. But I disliked Russian language in politics - probably I am just biased and I just did not like Soviet empire. Besides, during the communism some of the Russian words were being used in Poland - like towarishtsh and since they were linked to communism these rusicisms were disliked. --------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Jaga!
Yestarday we celebrated an 89 anniversary of Russian Socialist Revolution, which ranks with English or French Revolutions. And in this connection it will be very useful to make clear the origin of word "comrad" or "tovarisch". This word in Russian stands near to another "friend". At the begining of 20-th century 90% of Russians were obliged to address to another 10% as "master". How can we blame this people in their honourable attempt to gain self-respect after revolution? Remember that such abstract concepts as "LIBERTE", "FRATERNITE" or "EGALITE" all smudged with blood from guillotine! People's nature is so imperfect that can easily pervert the most high-minded undertakings!
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Post by Jaga on Nov 8, 2006 9:13:07 GMT -7
Constantine,
we have our own Polish words to address people, therefore using Russian words was a political tool. Instead of "Towariszcz" we have a word "kolega", "wspolpracownik" or "przyjaciel". Somehow "towarzysz" became so associated with the member of the communistic party that.... nobody wanted to use it in the common sense as a friend or collegue
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