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Post by tuftabis on Jul 2, 2010 7:25:01 GMT -7
a demand for weaker regions to reform themselves to fit to the European standards. In the sense of government cut backs, regulation, education, ICT, and the economy (stabile national innermarkets for the common good of the European innermarket). very much so, Pieter. That is one, and perfect example of unfair rules. The Greeks enjoyed cheap credit which they received from the banks using German credibility (through euro currency). They have had an opportunity to use the cheap credit because they were accepted into Euro zone. They were accepted into Eurozone out of political reasons mainly - to broaden the range of countries importing high-tech goods from the those in the EU who produce them. In simple words - they have received overly cheap credit to buy the goods they otherwise couldn't afford. At the same time they were unable to compete with the producers from which they have been importing because they were unable to weaken their currency through devaluation. They have found themselves in a trap. They shouldn't have joined Eurozone until they are ready to compete with the industrial nations inside EU on the purely economical level. On the other hand - they shouldn't have been let into Eurozone, by industrial nations forming the zone. This is of course one example of unfair rules in EU, there are many other points. Maybe I'll add one more. Let's stick to Greece. Greece is in the Union since 1981 if I remember correctly. If a country receives cohesion funding for so long and still it is very far from EU standards, then - let me ask, where the hell is the audit?? Is EU so poorly commanded by Brussel-class that it literally throws the money into the Aegan??? |
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Post by tuftabis on Jul 2, 2010 7:33:00 GMT -7
Karl , I have read it by now. Frankly saying, I am a little disappointed. I mean I read it with interest, as an example of good work for the target group/purchaser, but it is known without saying that the reasons of choosing a particular make has political roots. This happens everywhere, also inside the EU-standards setters, and we shouldn't expect anything else from Poland. Anyway, thanks for the link to an interesting thinktank. |
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Post by pieter on Jul 2, 2010 7:34:58 GMT -7
I fear that that is the case Tufta, unfortunately.
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Post by kaima on Jul 2, 2010 9:36:57 GMT -7
Kai: >>
So let's give Europe time to grow and mature. Hopefully they will survive in peace.<<
Pieter: >>
Disagreement here, Kai. Europe IS mature. Also, European identity exists since many years, does much better in recent years, and till now it is the source of the best developed civilization in our written history.<<
Pieter, I am quite surprised you don't see room for further maturation of the EU, the politicians or their concepts for running the union successfully. I would argue that there is room for immediate maturation, and then with the constantly changing conditions of humanity and the world, the politicians must continue to mature and develop. We would not turn back to the politicians and concepts of the 1950's, despite the competency of the people at the time to establish the PATH to unity that has now taken hold. We need new concepts for continuing down that changing path.
I am sure the politicians drawing up the Treaty of Versailles thought themselves to be the best, brightest and most mature on earth, and look at the mess they left behind!
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Post by karl on Jul 2, 2010 10:01:32 GMT -7
Karl , I have read it by now. Frankly saying, I am a little disappointed. I mean I read it with interest, as an example of good work for the target group/purchaser, but it is known without saying that the reasons of choosing a particular make has political roots. This happens everywhere, also inside the EU-standards setters, and we shouldn't expect anything else from Poland. Anyway, thanks for the link to an interesting thinktank. Tufta Your impression mirrors that of mine at first glance. The primary reason of the paper was for presentation upon completion of 12 week seminar. These are professional people for purpose of attendance to this seminar. This particular location is some what hidden as an open secret for in as of offices of U.S. military containing various departments of various disciplines. The paper derived from the Marshal seminar is composed for purpose as expressed in following url www.marshallcenter.org/mcpublicweb/en/nav-college/nav-academics-resident-courses/nav-col-pass.htmlThe prime reason of pass on to you, is to flesh out of that information as suitable for your self, and discard that of non-use. In small words, it is not taking another's work to pass as our own. But, it is the use of another's sweat in research and flesch out for pertinent information to make up the body of their report, as depicted in a paper of research. It is as of: To use an engineering report by Royal Dutch Shell field reports on syncline and anticline subsurface seismic grafts. As a bases for a ground stability report of an entirely different reason with references to the engineering report. In this manner, another person may back track, and with some research, come to the same conclusion as depicted in your original findings. Paper I passed on to you, was for a direction of information, in this manner.The process used by your government in the process of purchase of weapons using each supplier to make proof of the viability for Poland as to which weapons system suits best. As you have correctly brought forward, this process is very similar to most industrial states use. Ours is little different, with some exceptions, for many of our weapons are manufactured in the home land, with export models kept for a different market. I do trust with great hope, I have not mislead you in any manner. For if this to be true, I would feel very badly for I hold great respect to you as a person. Karl |
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Post by karl on Jul 2, 2010 11:12:50 GMT -7
Kai: >> So let's give Europe time to grow and mature. Hopefully they will survive in peace.<< Pieter: >> Disagreement here, Kai. Europe IS mature. Also, European identity exists since many years, does much better in recent years, and till now it is the source of the best developed civilization in our written history.<< Pieter, I am quite surprised you don't see room for further maturation of the EU, the politicians or their concepts for running the union successfully. I would argue that there is room for immediate maturation, and then with the constantly changing conditions of humanity and the world, the politicians must continue to mature and develop. We would not turn back to the politicians and concepts of the 1950's, despite the competency of the people at the time to establish the PATH to unity that has now taken hold. We need new concepts for continuing down that changing path. I am sure the politicians drawing up the Treaty of Versailles thought themselves to be the best, brightest and most mature on earth, and look at the mess they left behind! Kai How well do I agree with you, and this for sure  It is of irritation to my self with such terms as {Old Europe/New Europe}, For Europe is what it is, Europe. We are a people of our own, for each state is different in history and all that is their own, but, the fact remains, for what ever the label of the tin shall depict, we are still all Europeans. For this is our home, and for others in the new foreign lands, the home they left for a better start in life. My personal irritations with both NATO and our EU is: The fear of new ideas and innovations. For this is the 21st century, and with this, is new ideas/innovations not previously known. But, for why leadership will not explore and integrate new ideas. But for safety, will continue old worn out concepts, for only the reason that old is tried and true, but new, is not to be trusted... We as of German, are very fortunate in many manners, for with the past war, was to destroy much of the old in the heavy populated areas. This then to be replaced with new and modern buildings and roadways. The idea that cobble stone paved streets is so lovable, is simple none-sense. For if to travel over these care-over from 17 and 18 centuries, is simple non-sense, for one, the vibration and jarring is simple irritating, plus, this will in time, produce rattles and odd sounds to the motor auto, the owner has payed a fortune for. It is not a good idea to be looking back, for we may not like what is following us... Karl |
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Post by tuftabis on Jul 2, 2010 11:39:41 GMT -7
Kai: >> So let's give Europe time to grow and mature. Hopefully they will survive in peace.<< Pieter: >> Disagreement here, Kai. Europe IS mature. Also, European identity exists since many years, does much better in recent years, and till now it is the source of the best developed civilization in our written history.<< Pieter, I am quite surprised you don't see room for further maturation of the EU, the politicians or their concepts for running the union successfully. I would argue that there is room for immediate maturation, and then with the constantly changing conditions of humanity and the world, the politicians must continue to mature and develop. We would not turn back to the politicians and concepts of the 1950's, despite the competency of the people at the time to establish the PATH to unity that has now taken hold. We need new concepts for continuing down that changing path. I am sure the politicians drawing up the Treaty of Versailles thought themselves to be the best, brightest and most mature on earth, and look at the mess they left behind! Kai, double misunderstanding ocurred, It was I, tufta, who responded. And I read your >So let's give Europe time to grow and mature. Hopefully they will survive in peace.< literally. If you meant EU, not Europe, than 'growing and maturing' is indeed absolutely correct! |
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Post by tuftabis on Jul 2, 2010 11:44:48 GMT -7
Karl, I understood your intentions correctly. Thanks!
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It is of irritation to my self with such terms as {Old Europe/New Europe}, For Europe is what it is, Europe. We are a people of our own, for each state is different in history and all that is their own, but, the fact remains, for what ever the label of the tin shall depict, we are still all Europeans. For this is our home, and for others in the new foreign lands, the home they left for a better start in life.