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Post by pieter on Aug 23, 2007 13:44:09 GMT -7
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 1:01:49 GMT -7
That`s interesting, I didn`t know she was so naive in 50s as to believe in communism.
One of her poems delivered by Ludikundera, roughly translated by pawian:
Lenin
Że w bój poprowadził krzywdzonych, że trwałość zwycięstwu nadał, dla nadchodzących epok stawiając mocny fundament - grób, w którym leżał ten nowego człowieczeństwa Adam, wieńczony będzie kwiatami z nieznanych dziś jeszcze planet.
He led the oppressed into the battle He made their victory last for ever He put a powerful fundament for the coming epochs. The grave where he is resting This Adam of a new mankind Shall be decorated with flowers from planets unknown today.
Many Polish writers, poets, intellectuals were seduced by communism. Some of them served the new system for fear, others for love, still others for money.
Those who didn`t want to cooperate with the system and its redneck apparatchiks and censors, were silenced and banned. They could not publish for years.
It is hard to say what Szymborska`s reasons were. Probably it wasn`t money - she has always been a delicate and agreeable woman, she just did what others expected of her, she wasn`t able to refuse. Somebody asked her politely: write about Lenin, please. So she did because she was so nice....
PS. But her stalinist poetry sounds good. Full of passion and rich metaphors hahahahahahahahaha
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 4:43:31 GMT -7
ludikundera, What a peasent like, disrespectful, rude comment! I just don't like you. I demand that you take back your sexist remark out of respect of our women fellow forum members and descent male members. Pieter You must have been really angry and upset. I have never read you such! Hope today your emotions have dropped a little.
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 4:44:35 GMT -7
Gee, Pieter don't hold back - tell us how you really feel! Hey, isn`t it American psycho counselling?
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 4:46:17 GMT -7
Holly I hate sexism and rudeness towards women! I have experianced it in my country and other countries and don't like it and don't accept it! Pieter Although you don`t believe in uniqueness of Virgin Mary, you reveal certain features of a Polish believer.
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 5:11:49 GMT -7
But I don't apologize. And, just for you Pieter, I'll make sure to backhand my girlfriend across the face extra hard the next time she doesn't fetch my beer in good time. Hey, that`s not a Polish attitude! Women should be taken care of, not beaten. A few months ago 3 Poles were attacked by drunk Scots in a park in Glasgow. Even a woman with advanced and visible pregnancy was kicked and beaten. Polish forums were boiling with outrage - one commenter wrote: even the most aggressive and drunk Polish hoodlum would never kick and abuse a pregnant woman. I can agree with that. I appreciate your opinion but I can`t agree with it. Many decent people let themselves be cheated by communism. Later they realised their mistakes and were against the system or at least stopped sponsoring it. We shouldn`t constantly critizise them for the mistakes they made in their silly youth. I tend to forgive them and Szymborska as well.. My favourite writer, Stanisław Lem, had also a period in which he wrote communist science fiction stories. I have his book published in 50s, these stories are so incredibly funny in their anti-American, anti-clerical and anti-capitalist aggressiveness. But I don`t consider him a bad writer only because of his communist past. Po okresie wypaczeń - okres wybaczeń. hahahahaha
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 5:12:47 GMT -7
I'm pretty sure if a girl ever broke a beer bottle across my head, I'd fall in love with her! That's my kind of gal. You like being handled a bit violently?
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 5:23:45 GMT -7
I guess I stupidly assumed that most people on a forum called Polish Culture Forum would be able to read Polish. Hey, show mercy on people!! Don`t you know that the Polish language is the most difficult in the world, second after Chinese??? We can`t recover her true motives to write such poetry. Yes, it was really awful. Writing odes to a mummy!! Yuk!! And that`s what we should rememebr her for today! Many poets and writers remained in the party until 1980 or 1981. Many didn`t leave it until 1989, the formal end of communism. To leave the party in 1966 was a brave deed for anybody in Poland , I assure you. If it was only for such smartness, she wouldn`t get a Prize. Booooooo! That`s another non-Polish attitude! Here in Poland, we generally pay respect to older people. That`s what is taught in most families at least. But I think you wrote so to provoke people in the forum more, not because you believe so.
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Sept 2, 2007 5:45:05 GMT -7
If you think all poets played this political hop-scotch, just take a look at Zbigniew Herbert. He didn't. Herbert is famous because he's good; Szymbroska because she wrote the right things at the right times. Well, he played it too. Not in the mainstream, not on such a scale as others, but he did. Read this interview with an authoress of Herbert`s biography: www.kultura.org.pl/lupa.php?nid=667 especially this fragment: Joanna Siedlecka: Na pewno. Przecież nie starałam się pokazać Herberta jednowymiarowego, który kulom się nie kłaniał. Teraz próbuje się zrobić z niego kogoś takiego, tylko odwrotnie. Nie powiem, że robił jakieś świństwa, ale przecież nie był od początku wyizolowany, m.in. przeszedł małe peerelowskie przedszkole. O wielu rzeczach do tej pory nie wiedzieliśmy, choćby tego, że zaczynał w Gdańsku jako sekretarz ZLP na etacie. Wyjeżdżał w teren, organizował wyjazdy dla innych, widział, co się działo. Był w tym, za przeproszeniem, gnoju, absurdzie, w urabianiu literatów, w całym tym propagandowym światku. I wystąpił. Wydaje mi się to bardziej bohaterskie w 1951 r., kiedy przeprowadzano weryfikacje, niż w 1948, jak podawały jego życiorysy. Oczywiście nie pisał do takich gazet jak „Trybuna Ludu”, nie tworzył wierszy o Stalinie, ale tak absolutnie nie milczał. Pisywał w PAX-owskiej gazecie „Dziś i Jutro”. Po pierwsze - musiał z czegoś żyć, a po drugie - to była jakaś boczna dróżka. Nie szedł głównym torem, ale nie było tak, że kompletnie się wyizolował. Kolejny okres, o którym mówi Krzysztof Dybciak i to jest dosyć ważny rozdział: Herbert większość swojego twórczego życia spędził za granicą. On właściwie mieszkał w Paryżu. Wrócił po 1989 r., kiedy nie miał się już z czego we Francji utrzymać. W Polsce zniesiono cenzurę, ludzie mieli paszporty, więc na Zachodzie skończyły się dotacje dla emigracyjnych pisarzy. Dlatego musiał wrócić. Być może, oprócz ekspiacji, wstydu, że nie był z Baczyńskim i innymi Kolumbami, dołączył się i żal Pana Cogito podróżnika. Jednak, co tu dużo ukrywać - życie miał piękne. Wie pani, ludzie na spotkaniach nic o nim nie wiedzą, myślą, że siedział w więzieniu, głodował itd. Nieprawda! Miał przecież życie bardzo udane - wiele nagród, wyjazdów, podróży, pobytów za granicą, mieszkanie w Paryżu. Ale nikt go nie prześladował. O tym też się milczy. Wielu polskich pisarzy było represjonowanych, ale nie Herbert!
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Post by Jaga on Sept 3, 2007 9:39:15 GMT -7
Pawian,
interesting information about Herbert. I only remember that he was usually abroad and that he was a great poet! His works were not published in Poland for a certain time also therefore he was considered a political martyr. But Szymborska was also a great poet and she was in Poland therefore she had to compromise somehow to survive.
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Pawian
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Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Sept 6, 2007 12:24:27 GMT -7
Pawian, interesting information about Herbert. I only remember that he was usually abroad and that he was a great poet! His works were not published in Poland for a certain time also therefore he was considered a political martyr. But Szymborska was also a great poet and she was in Poland therefore she had to compromise somehow to survive. This biographical piece about Herbert suggests that very few people were spotless and immaculate. Most, at some stage of their life, got on with the system quite well.....
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