sonya
Freshman Pole
Posts: 5
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Post by sonya on Sept 16, 2013 4:03:27 GMT -7
Hi everybody. I'm trying to find any information on my dad, Iwan Wagner, from Dubia? Ternopil. He was born in either 1913 or 1919 and I am sure had a family farm. I don't know much else about his life before he was shipped to Australia in 1948. Any help would be appreciated.
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Post by Jaga on Sept 16, 2013 6:28:58 GMT -7
Sonya,
was your father Russian?
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sonya
Freshman Pole
Posts: 5
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Post by sonya on Sept 16, 2013 14:04:42 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Sept 16, 2013 16:32:01 GMT -7
Wagner sounds German to me, was he maybe an ethnic German "Volksdeutsche"? There lived a considerate German minority in those area's. Like there was a Polish minority there too.
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sonya
Freshman Pole
Posts: 5
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Post by sonya on Sept 16, 2013 16:39:49 GMT -7
Hi Pieter. He could have been but i'm not sure. We don't know much at all.
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Post by Jaga on Sept 16, 2013 20:53:00 GMT -7
Sonya,
interesting records. Your father was born in Tarnopol (Tarnopil) region before WW II. Before WW II Tarnopol belonged to Poland, but majority of people there, especially in the village, were Ukrainian. So, he was the most probably Ukrainian, especially since his religion, according to the papers was Greek-Catholic which means an Eastern rite.
Ivan - first name suggest Ukrainian origin. Wagner might suggest some German roots, but not necessarily. I would say that Ivan was probably Eastern Ukrainian, Olga - Western Ukrainian, since she was born in Dniepropetrovsk. After start of WW II Ukraine was incorporated by Soviet Union, later Germany attacked SU. Ivan might be involuntary sent as a worker in German farm, since Germans needed farmers, especially since he was a farmer before WW II, therefore he ended up in the resettlement camp in Germany.
Germany used slave laborers, primarily prisoners of war from France, Yugoslavia, Poland, the Ukraine, and other countries.
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sonya
Freshman Pole
Posts: 5
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Post by sonya on Sept 17, 2013 0:34:31 GMT -7
Thank you. That's really interesting. Do you know of anywhere that I might be able to get some help with tracing his family history?
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Post by Eric on Sept 17, 2013 8:11:37 GMT -7
After start of WW II Ukraine was incorporated by Soviet Union, later Germany attacked SU. The eastern half of Ukraine was in the USSR since its formation. The western half of Ukraine was transferred from Poland to the USSR as a result of World War II. This division of the country has effects even today. Eastern Ukraine is primarily Russian-oriented, while western Ukraine is primarily Western-oriented. The primary language in eastern and southern Ukraine is Russian, while the primary language in western Ukraine is Ukrainian.
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Post by Eric on Sept 17, 2013 8:17:18 GMT -7
Hello Dad said he was from Ukraine but could be Russian depending on borders at the time. Is that right? His mothers name was Marcia. Dad was married to Olena at the time he came to Australia. She passed away as result of an accident in 1956. Judging from these forms, your parents were definitely Ukrainian. At some point, it becomes rather difficult to tell the difference between Russian and Ukrainian, but the difference is clear here: the spelling of their names, their locations in Ukraine before migrating, etc. The only major changes to the Russian-Ukrainian border within the USSR happened after your parents left. Ukraine did, however, gain territory from Poland after World War II. Your father's mother's name was Marcia? There's no such Ukrainian name. Or Russian. Or Slavic. It's been anglicized, obviously, but there are some possibilities I can guess. Either that, or Marcia was not Ukrainian.
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sonya
Freshman Pole
Posts: 5
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Post by sonya on Sept 17, 2013 14:19:20 GMT -7
Thanks for that information Eric. Maybe her name was not spelled that way, but that's how Dad used to say it (Marcia). Would you have any ideas what her name might have been. Anything that sounds similar? Maybe Masha?
This is going to be a really hard search I think.
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Post by Jaga on Sept 17, 2013 20:43:40 GMT -7
Eric, +++The western half of Ukraine was transferred from Poland to the USSR as a result of World War II.+++ you should know better. Soviets just invaded Poland together with Nazi Germany. There was no any "formal" transfer unless you call Molotov-Ribbentrop pact which divided Easter Europe between Nazi Germany and Soviet Union a transfer, which is really offensive to Poles. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pactthe treaty included a secret protocol that divided territories of Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland into Nazi and Soviet "spheres of influence", anticipating potential "territorial and political rearrangements" of these countries. Thereafter, Germany invaded Poland on 1 September 1939. The Soviet Union would not invade Poland until the Nomonhan incident was officially concluded by the Molotov–Togo agreement, which it was on 15 September 1939, taking effect on 16 September, at which time Stalin ordered Soviet forces to invade Poland on 17 September 1939.[3] Part of southeastern (Karelia) and Salla region in Finland were annexed by the Soviet Union after the Winter War. This was followed by Soviet annexations of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bessarabia, Northern Bukovina and the Hertza region.
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Post by Jaga on Sept 17, 2013 20:45:07 GMT -7
Eric,
+ This division of the country has effects even today. Eastern Ukraine is primarily Russian-oriented, while western Ukraine is primarily Western-oriented. The primary language in eastern and southern Ukraine is Russian, while the primary language in western Ukraine is Ukrainian.+++
yes, Ukraine is split culturally
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