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Post by Jaga on Jul 19, 2014 13:27:57 GMT -7
Pieter, I hope there will be something good coming out of this tragedy and the Dutch response was very good, tough and sent a strong message message to Russia and Putin.
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Post by Nictoshek on Jul 19, 2014 13:40:55 GMT -7
 Dutch Fury As MH17 Bodies 'Dragged Around'The Netherlands expresses anger as the country grieves for its 192 nationals killed by "murderers" when the plane was shot down.Skynews Saturday 19 July 2014 The Netherlands has asked for help bringing home the bodies of the 192 Dutch nationals killed when Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans told Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko that his country was "angry" and "furious" by reports of bodies being dragged around the site in Grabovo, Donetsk. "We are already shocked by the news we got today of bodies being dragged around, of the site not being treated properly," he said. Ukrainian officials accused pro-Russian separatists of taking bodies from the scene of the crash before emergency services personnel began officially collecting them on Saturday. The Netherlands is in mourning and at Schiphol Airport, where flight MH17 took off on Thursday afternoon, the families of those on board and other well-wishers have been laying flowers and paying tribute. For now, the relatives have nowhere else to go and, although it has been suggested they could be flown out to the crash site, Malaysia Airlines commercial director Hugh Dunleavy told Sky News it was unlikely as it is not possible to guarantee them safe passage. The front page of one of the Dutch newspapers in the wake of the downing of the Malaysia Airlines jet shows a picture of pro-Russian fighters with the headline: "Murderers!" And a headline in another newspaper reads: "Everybody knows somebody". One mourner who arrived at the airport to pay her respects underlined that fact, telling Sky News: "It's unfair what’s happened, these people don't deserve it.  A children's toy lies among the passengers' possessions
"Close family? No, but my cousin, his friend at school, his family were all on board the plane." Churches have opened books of condolences for those who have died, and services have been held across the country. As the relatives come to terms with their loss, the process of formally identifying the dead continues. Forensic teams are fanning out across the country to collect material, including DNA samples, that will help positively identify the remains. Police said 40 pairs of detectives from the National Forensic Investigations Team would be visiting relatives in the coming days. Mr Timmermans said the Netherlands would not stop until those responsible for the deaths of so many citizens were brought to justice. "Once we have the proof, we will not stop before the people are brought to justice," he said. "Not just the people who pulled the trigger but also those who made it possible. I think the international community needs to step up its efforts in this respect."
Britain Warns Putin: World's Eyes Are On You
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Post by Jaga on Jul 19, 2014 13:52:00 GMT -7
Nictoe, good posts. It is amazing, almost scary to see all these toys and suitcases scattered around.
+++Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans told Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko that his country was "angry" and "furious" by reports of bodies being dragged around the site in Grabovo, Donetsk.+++
Putin just announced cease fire, so maybe the separationists learned something.
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Post by karl on Jul 19, 2014 14:59:18 GMT -7
Dear Karl, The fact that Asian and European passengers on this international flight died a such horrible death and that this got so much international attention damaged the cause of these insurgent (rebel-) forces. The case isn't closed yet. international leaders and ministers of foreign affairs of several countries made statements. The Malaysian and Dutch governments want a thorough investigation. They want the truth and nothing but the truth and will not rest until clarity, clearness and a honest report of "the terrible accident" or "terror attack" will come out. Cheers, Pieter Pieter Understandable your message and very well understood and appreciated. The question that is/will be of future however short shall be is: The life span of the operators of the weapons equipment that brought down the air craft in question. For once this has become an International question of responsibility, then their life span will be counted in what ever time that is allowed to be. For the dead is not always the innocent. Hopefully, those operators will be located in short time and brought under the umbrella of protection to testifie as to the actions of that fatefull time to the moment of missil launche to strike and after. Karl |
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Post by karl on Jul 19, 2014 15:07:10 GMT -7
Furious Dutch prime minister tells Putin to exert his influenceSaturday 19 July 2014 Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte has described as ' disgusting' pictures of Ukraine rebels digging through the possessions of people killed in disaster. In a short news conference, Rutte said he had just had a ' very intense' phone call with Russian president Vladimir Putin. 'I told him " time is running out for you to show the world that you have good intentions, that you will take responsibility",' Rutte said. Putin now ' has to show that he will do what is expected of him and will exert his influence,' the Dutch prime minister said. ' It is 35 degrees there. The bodies need to be recovered now. I want to see results, unhindered access and the repatriation of the victims.’ PersonalThe phone conversation with Putin was ' very personal', the Dutch prime minister said. ‘ I think the entire Dutch population knows people who directly or indirectly know someone who was on board. There were 80 people under the age of 18, of whom 23 were under the age of 12 and three were babies. It is too terrible for words.’ Images of rebels holding up children's toys were 'too disgusting for words', Rutte said. Such action is also hindering the investigation into the crash, he said. InvestigatorsEarlier on Saturday, Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans met Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko in Kiev and told him the Netherlands was ' angry, furious' at the news that bodies were being dragged around the crash site, Reuters said. ' Once we have the proof, we will not stop before the people are brought to justice. Not just the people who pulled the trigger but also those who made it possible. I think the international community needs to step up its efforts in this respect,' Reuters quoted Timmermans as saying. According to Dutch broadcaster Nos, Poroschenko in turn told Timmermans it is unacceptable that international experts are being denied access to the disaster zone. ‘ We will not tolerate interference with the work of the commission and that those representatives of other countries do not have the possibility of conducting an objective investigation,’ Poroshenko is quoted as saying. DenialsHowever, the separatists deny interfering, Nos television reports. It quotes ‘one of their commanders’ as saying they have promised the OSCE that they will not touch bodies or the remains of the plane. As well as Dutch, Malaysian and Ukrainian researchers have arrived in the region to begin investigating the crash. Two German forensic pathologists are also on their way to Ukraine, as is a six strong-British team, Nos television said. Malaysia Airlines released the full passenger list on Saturday. The Dutch death toll is now put at 193, out of 298 people on board the plane. Pieter Yes, Mr. Mark Rutte is absolutely correct in his assertions of rebels attempting to destroy evidence in the crash site. For those people are attempting to save their skins, for they know the ax will come down upon their heads once the evidence is disclosed of their actions. What they do not understand is: It would be best for professional investigators to take them into custodie for their protection. For life may be exciting at the present, but the wages of their creation is always near. Karl |
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Post by Nictoshek on Jul 19, 2014 16:07:46 GMT -7
 Tragic: Gary Slok, 15, took a selfie with his mum Petra Malaysia Airlines Crash: Mother and schoolboy son pose for selfie just before take-offGary Slok, 15, took the touching picture with his mum Petra as they settled into their seats while flight MH17 prepared to take off Jul 19, 2014 20:29 By Ben Glaze A mother and her schoolboy son beaming excitedly into the camera for a haunting selfie aboard the doomed Malaysia Airlines jet. Gary Slok, 15, took the touching picture with his mum Petra as they settled into their seats while flight MH17 prepared to take off. Just three hours later the Boeing 777 was cruising at 33,000ft when it was blasted out of the sky, killing all 298 passengers and crew. The Dutch pair were travelling to Kuala Lumpur on a trip aimed at single parents and their children. Talented Gary was a goalkeeper for his local football team in Maassluis, and yesterday his team-mates held a memorial service for their friend. A club spokesman said: “Gary and his mum Petra were on their way to Malaysia to have the dream holiday of their life. “Sadly they never got the chance to fulfill that dream. “But his story and his last picture tell you how dreams of many people with wonderful lives ahead of them have been wrecked.” Victims of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17_ |
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Post by Nictoshek on Jul 20, 2014 2:26:20 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2014 2:38:30 GMT -7
Pieter, I hope there will be something good coming out of this tragedy and the Dutch response was very good, tough and sent a strong message message to Russia and Putin. Jaga, My hopes are the same as yours. Unfortunately this accident hasn't reduced the Cold War atmosphere jet. Old negative images or stereotypes of Russian barbarians reemerge. Now the world is connected to the conflict. But will it solve the problem? Due to the positive image of Ukrainians who pay their respect to the Dutch citizens that died in the crash, and Dutch reports of Ukrainians who actually mourn over the Dutch and other victims has given a positive image of Ukraine. On the other side the Dutch viewers see blunt, aggressive Russian separatist rebels who block the entrance to the crash site for international investigators, and a shrewd, indirect and unreliable Putin, who blames the other side, the Ukrainians government and army, while the plane was shot down in rebel hold territory. What is the real truth will come out some time. The countries of the victims side are very determined to find the truth and nothing but the truth. A large Malaysian team has arrived in Ukraine, as well as Dutch, German, English experts and people of international organizations. The pressure on the Russian government and the Russian rebels in Eastern-Ukraine must be very high now. Again, the future will tell who was responsible. It will take some time. It is very sad and terrible for the families, relatives, friends, colleages and classmates of the deceased right now that the research and proper, professional collection of the victims remains for research, identification and burial can't take place now. It is extremely painful for these people. The grandparents/parents of the families, the aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces and nephews and again the class mates of the children and teenagers, and the sport teams that miss their team member. I feel sorry and sympathy for those people in the Netherlands, Malaysia (especially the *two Malaysian children, but also the crew of the flight, who had the best intention to serve their passengers, in the typical asian way of hospitality and friendlyness), the 27 Australians, the 12 Indonesians (including *1 infant -the same statement as for the Malaysian children), the 10 British (including 1 dual UK/S. Africa citizen), and the four Germans, four Belgians, 3 Philippinians and the Canadian and New Zealander that died. In the same time people continue to die in Ukraine due to the armed conflict, in Palestine, Israel, Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Nigeria, Mali and Sudan and other armed conflicts and terror caused by rebels and government forces. And in all those conflicts and accidents, unfortunately civilians, mothers and children die. This tragedy holds the Netherlands in it's grip, like the terrible accident with the Polish plane on 10 April 2010 near the city of Smolensk, Russia. The difference was that on the Polish plane was a large section of the Polish political, military and elite, the Polish clergy, and relatives of victims of the Katyn massacre. On the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was a cross section of the Dutch society, working class, middle class and high class. Australia lost with 27 people also a lot of people. I am sorry for them too. It was good that the Australian prime-minister spoke out and that the Dutch and Australian prime-ministers have had contact. International cooperation is very important in this case. Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2014 2:50:15 GMT -7
Locals mourn at the crashsite Tributes: Locals have come out in their droves to leave flowers and tributes to the dead among the flowers as the investigation continues Distraught: One woman puts her hand up to her face as she looks at the wreckage site  While residents have been able to leave flowers, staff of Europe's OSCE claim they were blocked from the site
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2014 3:09:13 GMT -7
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Post by Nictoshek on Jul 20, 2014 4:31:08 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2014 8:26:53 GMT -7
Flowers in New YorkKarel van Oosterom, the Permanent Representative of the Netherlands to the United Nations in New York  TwitterKarel van Oosterom @kvanoosterom Follow Really appreciate memorial in front of our Mission for the victims of yesterday's #MH17 tragedy. Thank you New York. 3:44 's middags - 18 juli 2014
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2014 8:40:09 GMT -7
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Post by Nictoshek on Jul 20, 2014 8:58:54 GMT -7
 Flowers in front of the Embassy of the Netherlands in Kiev on July 18, 2014, to commemorate passengers of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 carrying 295 people from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur which crashed in eastern Ukraine.Putin Risks ‘Pariah’ Status as Pressure Mounts After CrashBy Daryna Krasnolutska and Volodymyr Verbyany - Jul 20, 2014 U.S. and European leaders piled pressure on Vladimir Putin to back down on eastern Ukraine as chaos surrounded the crash site of the Malaysian Air (MAS) jet. In Kiev, the government said the missile system used by pro-Putin rebels to shoot the plane down is back in Russia. While the location of the 298 passengers’ bodies was unclear, U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron said he agreed with his French and German counterparts that Europe should be ready to impose further sanctions on Russia at a meeting July 22. Cameron will speak to the Russian leader later today, his office said, as Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond cautioned that more sanctions would hit London’s economy. “Russia risks becoming a pariah state if it does not behave properly,” Hammond said in a television interview on Sky News. “We now need to use the sense of outrage that is clear to get a further round of sanctions tightening against Russia, with further steps as well, if the Russians do not comply with the requirements that the whole international community now places upon them.” Putin faces international ire just as the U.S. and its allies were trying to push him into a corner over the annexation of Crimea and his support for pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine. The U.S. and Europe tightened sanctions last week, and both Cameron and Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said yesterday that Europe needs to consider further steps. Missile Origins President Barack Obama on July 18 decried what he termed Putin’s refusal to “de-escalate the situation.” While the Russian president has blamed the Ukrainian government, saying the crash wouldn’t have happened had it not fomented the conflict in the east, the administration in Kiev says it has proof that the plane was brought down by a Russian missile. Separatists had in their possession “at least” three Russian-made surface-to-air missile systems, known by their NATO designation SA-11 Gadfly, Ukraine state security official Vitaliy Nayda said yesterday. As part of a cover-up of who fired the missile, three of the systems were transported back to Russia just hours after the plane was shot down, he said. Nayda displayed photos that he said showed them on the road to the Russian border. Rebels at Site The Gadfly, known locally as the Buk-M, is a radar-guided weapon that can locate a target at a range of 140 miles and reach altitudes as high as about 72,000 feet, according to the army-technology.com website. The crash site at Grabovo, less than 60 miles from the Russian border, is providing a focal point for global anger as armed rebels hover over the investigation, making the reclamation of wreckage and corpses more difficult. With limbs and bodies still scattered around the area, governments around the world are clamoring to be given greater access to bring the remains home. Contradictory reports about the bodies, and eyewitness accounts of rebels and local miners sifting over the victims’ possessions, are also hampering an accurate inspection, said Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe spokesman Michael Bociurkiw. At the site today, Bociurkiw said he had heard refrigerated trains will transport the corpses to an area controlled by the Kiev government. He didn’t know where exactly. The OSCE today was able to do “documentary work” more efficiently, Bociurkiw told reporters by phone. Black Boxes The Associated Press reported today that armed rebels forced emergency workers to hand over 196 bodies and sent them to a rebel-held city in refrigerated trains. It cited Ukrainian officials and monitors. Rebels also recovered the black boxes and will hand them to the International Civil Aviation Organization, the AP reported, citing a rebel leader. The conflict in east Ukraine is raging on, even as the eyes of the world focus on the crash. Ukrainian troops are holding their positions near the airports of Luhansk and Donetsk -- both about 60 miles from the crash site -- and widened the area they have under their control, the Defense Ministry said in a statement on its website. Government troops repelled all the rebels’ attacks overnight. Gas Supplies While the diplomatic pressure on Putin to disown the rebels and help end the conflict in east Ukraine is growing, building the political will in Europe to force him to do so may prove difficult. The European Union relies on Russia for about 30 percent of its gas, according to European Commission data, making some countries reluctant to act. One group of countries, which runs in an arc from Estonia in the northeast through Austria and down to Greece in the southeast, gets more than 75 percent of its gas imports from Russia. The immediate reaction on July 19 didn’t suggest a rush to action was imminent. Poland demanded a harder line on the Kremlin while Italy signaled no shift from its opposition to more biting sanctions. German Chancellor Angela Merkel straddled the divide, telling reporters in Berlin yesterday that the region’s response so far is “adequate” and “it is especially Russia’s responsibility for what is going on in Ukraine right now.” Sen. Feinstein: The U.S. Is Now At Cold War Levels With Russia_ |
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Post by pieter on Jul 20, 2014 10:07:53 GMT -7
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