Are Saoudi Arabia and Iran close to cooperation?

[pieter]

Nasrallah: Israel can’t even imagine our arms stockpile

In interview with Lebanon-based TV station, Hezbollah leader also says he warned of the threat posed by ISIS in Europe and the Middle East.
By Jack Khoury | Jan. 14, 2015 | 4:56 PM


Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah speaking in a Beirut suburb, November 3, 2014. Photo by AP

Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah says his organization has an arsenal that is beyond anything Israel could even imagine. In a long interview that is to be aired in a few days by Al Mayadeen, a Lebanon-based satellite television station, Nasrallah says Hezbollah is prepared for a military confrontation with Israel — if and when Israel imposes it on Hezbollah, in his words.

Nasrallah also refers to recent reports of the arrest of the head of Hezbollah’s foreign operations, Mohammed Shawraba, as an Israeli spy.


Head of Hezbollah’s foreign operations, Mohammed Shawraba

The interview comes at a sensitive time for Hezbollah on both the Lebanese and the wider Middle East fronts. The organization has opened a dialogue with Saad Hariri’s Al-Mustaqbal movement, its political foe within Lebanon. At the same time, Hezbollah is concerned with extremist organizations such as the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL and the Nusra Front as well as the changing relations between Iran and the world powers.

Nasrallah, who condemned the attack in Paris, will stress that he warned of the danger posed by the expansion of groups such as the Islamic State into the Middle East and Europe. He will also describe the background for the ongoing war in Syria.

The Lebanese attach great significance to the dialogue between Hezbollah and Al-Mustaqbal. A figure who is close to Hariri told Haaretz that this dialogue reflects a green light given by Iran and Saudi Arabia, the respective sponsors of each party, who are worried by recent terror attacks in Lebanon and who would like to see a united national Lebanese front.


Iranian and Saoudi leaders meeting in the past

picturesdotnews.wordpress.com/2014/12/22/israeli-spy-allegedly-infiltrated-hezbollah-and-passed-information-on-terrorist-group-to-mossad/

[karl]

Pieter

Interesting situation of a common issue to bring about a level of mutual interest between the Saudies and Iranians. For Iranians are not Arab in as well as Syrians, but each of their own.

It would so appear perhaps we are standing upon untried ground that has not been tested for the forefront of an Arab against Arab contest. For as the mention of contest, is not a game, but a life and death struggle between those of Arab break away in the name of Islam as a cover for such violence as committed against humanity.

The endangerment at present time, and not to say that Iran has now or short time future, an arsenal of nuclear weapons at disposal. But the simply possibility would then bring the hounds about for sniffing.

The Saudies are not dreamers,they well know that at any time, their family power can well be broken by events that if they do not place a finger upon quick flash, they could well be out in the desert with out not only a camel, but a water hole to drink the desert dust out of their mouth by.

Of course the Iranians do not have nuclear weapons, for the world press and the Americans have seen to that. For what then would the Israelies do for a programme of condemnation aganst the Iranians?

It is then to the common threat of IS that is the catalyst to bring into a common fold, the varius Gulf states. In spite of differences that have been over time between them {Gulf States}, the commonality of a common threat, will be the effect to do so.

As being this is an Arab against Arab contest, it well would behove to the West, to stay out. But, not entirely out of the photo, for once the bullets begin to fly and the weapons of war begin to lessen with wear and combat losses. Replacements will be needed, and this is where the West must step up as prime suppliers by virtue of our various industries.

But then, perhaps my self am getting to be the cart in front of the horse.

Karl

[pieter]

Iran–Saudi Arabia relations




Saoudi Arabia is the Ochre color country and Iran is the Green country on the map

Bilateral relations between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia have been strained over different geo-political issues such as the interpretations of Islam, aspirations for leadership of the Islamic world, oil export policy, relations with the US and the West. Although Saudi Arabia and Iran are both Muslim majority nations and follow and rule through Islamic Scripture, their relations are fraught with hostility, tension and confrontation, due to differences in faith. Saudi Arabia is a conservative "Wahhabi" Sunni Islamic kingdom with a tradition of close ties with the United States and United Kingdom. Iran is a Twelver Shia Islamic Republic founded in a populist anti-Western revolution. Both Saudi Arabia and Iran are seen to have aspirations for leadership of Islam, and have different visions of stability and regional order. After the Islamic Revolution, relations deteriorated considerably after Iran accused Saudi Arabia of being an agent of the US in the Persian Gulf region, representing US interests rather than Islam. Saudi Arabia is concerned by Iran's consistent desire to export its revolution across the board to expand its influence within the Persian Gulf region -- notably in post-Saddam Iraq, the Levant and within further south in addition to Iran's controversial, much debated nuclear program.


During the Islamic revolution in Iran in 1979


1979 was marked by the overthrow of the shah of Iran by a populist revolt and the rise of a fundamentalist Islamic state.

Tensions between the two countries have waxed and waned. Relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran soured particularly after the Iranian Revolution, the nuclear program, and most recently the 2011 alleged Iran assassination plot. There have also been numerous attempts to improve the relationship. After the 1991 Gulf war there was a noticeable thaw in relations. In March 2007 President Ahmadinejad of Iran visited Riyadh and was greeted at the airport by King Abdullah, and the two countries were referred to in the press as "brotherly nations". After March 2011, Iran's financial and military support for Syria during the Syrian Civil War, has been a severe blow to the improvement of relations.

The difference of political ideologies and governance has also divided both countries. The Islamic Republic of Iran is based on the principle of Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists, which holds that a faqīh (Islamic jurist) should have custodianship over all Muslim followers, including their governance and regardless of nationality. Iran's Supreme Leader is a Shia faqīh. The founder of the Iranian revolution in 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini, was ideologically opposed to monarchy, which he believed to be unIslamic. Saudi Arabia's monarchy, on the other hand, remains consistently conservative, not revolutionary, and politically married to age-old religious leaders of the tribes who support the monarchy and the king (namely the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques) is given absolute obedience as long as he does not violate Islamic sharia law. Saudi Arabia has, however, a Shia minority which has recently made bitter complaints of institutional discrimination against it, specifically after the 2007 change in Iraqi governance and particularly after the 2011 events that spanned the region. At some stages it has gone as far as to call for overthrowing the king and the entire system.


The Saoudi king is the the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques

Both countries are major oil & gas exporters and have clashed over energy policy. Saudi Arabia, with its large oil reserves and smaller population, has a greater interest in taking a long-term view of the global oil market and incentive to moderate prices. In contrast, Iran is compelled to focus on high prices in the short term due to its low standard of living given recent sanctions after its decade old war with Saddam's Iraq.

Pahlavi Dynasty

Saudi Arabia and Iran established diplomatic relations in 1929 following the signing of a Saudi-Iranian Friendship Treaty. However, relations were not active until the 1960s mostly due to differences in religious practices and Iran's recognition of Israel. In 1966 the late King Faisal of Saudi Arabia visited Iran with the aim of further strengthening relationships between both neighboring countries. The Shah of Iran Mohammad-Reza Pahlavi reciprocated by paying an official visit to Saudi Arabia which eventually led to a peaceful resolution of the islands. The Shah supported King Faisal's efforts regarding Islamic solidarity and actively contributed to the establishment of multinational Islamic institutions, including the Organization of the Islamic World Congress, the Muslim World League, and the Organization of the Islamic Conference.


Mohammad-Reza Pahlavi during a pilgrimage to Mecca in Saudi Arabia

In 1968, Saudi Arabia and Iran signed a demarcation agreement. When the United Kingdom announced to withdraw and vacate from the Persian Gulf in the late 1960s, Iran and Saudi Arabia took the primary responsibility for peace and security in the region. In the late 1960s, the Shah sent a series of letters to King Faisal, urging him to modernize Saudi Arabia, saying, "Please, my brother, modernize. Open up your country. Make the schools mixed women and men. Let women wear miniskirts. Have discos. Be modern. Otherwise I cannot guarantee you will stay on your throne." In response King Faisal wrote, "Your majesty, I appreciate your advice. May I remind you, you are not the Shah of France. You are not in the Élysée. You are in Iran. Your population is 90 percent Muslim. Please don't forget that."


King Faisal of Saoudi Arabia

During the 1970s, Saudi Arabia's main concerns over Iran were firstly, Iran's modernisation of its military and its military dominance all over the region; secondly, Iran's repossession of the islands of Big Tunb, Little Tunb and Abu Moussa in 1971 which challenged the United Arab Emirates claim over the islands. The dispute remains till today. But the relationship between Iran and Saudi Arabia was never as friendly as between the years 1968 and 1979.

The relationship between the two countries was not without its tensions in the mid-to-late 1970s. As the Shah attempted to build an Iranian security architecture in the region, the Saudis resisted these efforts. Instead, King Khalid attempted to build bilaterial security relationships with the smaller neighboring Persian Gulf states which has lasted till today. The Saudis also argued for more modest OPEC price increases in 1976 and 1977 than Iran wanted.

Iranian Revolution



Following the theocratic Iranian Revolution conducted by Khomeini in 1979, Iran started to openly attack and criticise the character and religious legitimacy of the Saudi system. However King Khalid, the then ruler of Saudi Arabia, sent Khomeini a congratulatory message, stating that "Islamic solidarity" could be the basis for closer relations of two countries. He also argued that with the foundation of the Islamic Republic in Iran there were no obstacles that inhibited the cooperation between two countries.


King Khalid of Saoudi Arabia

In a 1987 public address Khomeini declared that “these vile and ungodly Wahhabis, are like daggers which have always pierced the heart of the "Muslims" from the back,” and announced that Mecca was in the hands of “a band of heretics.” Upon this statement diplomatic relations between the two countries ended until 1991.

Sectarian tensions

Historically, Iran–Saudi relationships have always been uncertain, something attributed to the different sects that the majority populations in both the countries follow. Saudi Arabia which is a predominantly Sunni society has always been skeptical of Shi'ite Iran's activities in the Persian Gulf region, thus labeling Iranian ambitions to dominate the Muslim world as a form of Safawid/Safavid rule. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty / en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_conversion_of_Iran_to_Shia_Islam )

Leading Sunni and Shi'ite Clerics in both the countries deemed each other's religious beliefs as incorrect for decades. An attempt was made by the Sunnis to take the Tomb of Imam Hussein, one of the important religious leaders of Shi'ite theology and the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad whose life is considered the main difference between Sunni and Shi'ite sects, due to Wahabbi focus on the spiritual aspect of Islam rather than the tangible. Since then, tensions between both major sects of Islam, their followers and their affiliates, have increased and this tension is considered unlikely to be resolved any time soon. According to the French newspaper Le Figaro, on 5 June 2010, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia told Hervé Morin, then Defense Minister of France that: "There are two countries in the world that do not deserve to exist: Iran and Israel."

1980's Iran–Iraq War


Iraqi gunners used a Soviet 130-milllimeter field gun to shell the Iranian cities of Abadan and Khurramshahr.

The Shia–Sunni conflict between the two countries also played a pivotal role in the Iran–Iraq war when Saudi authorities pledged US$25 billion of aid to the Iraqi government of Saddam Hussein. The Iran–Iraq War increased Saudi concerns over stability in the region, hence their financial support to Iraq regardless of the "not-so-warm" relations between Baathist Iraq and Conservative Saudi Arabia. In doing so, Saudi Arabia recognised its worries that revolutionary Iran was a far greater threat to its survival and the stability of the region. Saudi Arabia also encouraged other Arab states of the Persian Gulf, including Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, to do the same by giving financial support to Iraq. To cover the costs of the war Saudi Arabia dramatically increased its oil production. This increase in oil production by Saudi Arabia was aimed to weaken Iran's ability to fund its campaigns. But this measure by Saudi Arabia did not have a desired impact on Iran because it also cost the Saudi government billions in revenue as oil prices plunged from over $30 a barrel to less than $15 by the mid 1980s.


An Iranian Revolutionary Guard weeps by the body of his brother on Kooreh-Moosh height during heavy shelling by Iraqi forces at Sare Pole Zahab, Kermanshah Province, Iran.

During the Iran–Iraq war, Iran flew their aircraft in Saudi airspace and also threatened Saudi Arabia and Kuwait with severe consequences if they would not stop supporting Iraq. Unlike America, Saudi Arabia, due to its very traditional Arab-Bedouin culture, did not break diplomatic relations with Iran even during the worst periods of tension following the revolution and during the Iran–Iraq war.

1987 Hajj Incident

Until 1987, no satisfactory resolution was made to decrease the tension between Iran and Saudi Arabia. The already strained relationship between the two countries further deteriorated when clashes occurred between Iranian-led demonstrators and Saudi security forces on 31 July 1987. The clash claimed the lives of around 400 pilgrims, out of which two thirds had Iranian nationality. This incident angered the Saudis and in retaliation, the Saudi administration instituted a ban on all Hajj (Pilgrimage) rituals and activities. Angry protesters in Tehran responded by ransacking the Saudi embassy and also detained and physically attacked an number of residing Saudi diplomats. As a result, one of the Saudi officials died from the injuries. In response, Saudi Arabia in 1988, cut its diplomatic relations with Iran and ensured that no Iranian could obtain a Saudi travel visa for performing the Hajj (Pilgrimage).


1987: More than 400 pilgrims died as a result of demonstrations

Responses to Satanic Verses


Sir Salman Rushdie, author of The Satanic Verses

The relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran gradually started to improve after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. Iran had accepted ceasefire with Iraq in July 1988 and soon afterwards, Saudi Arabia started improving relations with Iran.

In October 1988, the late King Fahd halted all media campaigns against Iran and asked Saudi administration to pressure Iraq into implementing the UNSCR 598. In 1989, Iranian President Hashemi Rafsanjani stated that Iran and Saudi Arabia were holding indirect talks to improve their relations. But the issuance of fatwa by Khomeini against the Indian author Salman Rushdie again soured the relations between the two countries. Khomeini, the spiritual leader of Iran at that time, declared a death sentence for Salman Rushdie for certain anti-Islamic remarks in his book Satanic Verses published in 1988. The Saudi government, which took this religious decree against Rushdie as an act aimed at gaining Muslim sympathy across the world, came up with its own verdict of making Rushdie appear before an Islamic tribunal before he could be delivered a death sentence.


Salman Rushdie's book provoked a furious reaction from many Muslims

Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in August 2, 1990


Iraqi Type 69 tank on the road into Kuwait City during the Gulf War.

When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, Iran criticised and condemned the invasion. This stance from Iran, in favor of the Kuwaitis, and the anti-Iraqi coalition of the Persian Gulf states helped to improve relations between Iran and the GCC, namely Saudi Arabia. Both Iran and Saudi Arabia rejected the use of force as a solution to regional problems and opposed the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. Iran went further, by backing UN sanctions against Iraq. Iran viewed the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait as a serious threat, considering it the first step towards its expansionist mindset. During the war, relations between Iran and Saudi Arabia thawed considerably and the official ties were restored in 1991.


Iraqi troops driving through Kuwait City cheering in victory after finishing a siege in 1990.

This short resumption of political ties was followed by quick high level visits, notably, in April 1991, Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Velayati visited Saudi Arabia to propose an Iranian-Gulf Cooperation Council alliance with a mandate for the security of the Persian Gulf, during a meeting with the late King Fahd. He claimed the Gulf Cooperation Council was too weak and hence failed to prevent the invasion of Kuwait, and stressed the need of the inclusion of Iran to strengthen such a regional agency to ensure stability.


Iranian foreign minister Ali Akbar Velayati

The Hajj (Pilgrimage) issue was also resolved. In 1991, the Saudi authorities allowed 115,000 Iranian pilgrims, which was more in number compared to the 1988 quota of 45,000, that had led to Iran's abrupt boycott. The Saudis also agreed to an Iranian request of allowing 5,000 relatives and friends of the 412 "martyrs" of the 1987 incident to attend the Hajj Pilgrimage that year. In later years, Iran adopted a careful approach and undertook measures for preventing a repeat of that incident. Iranian authorities tried to discourage large demonstrations by its pilgrims and attempted to have them held within the confines of the Iranian encampment. (Explanation: Certain Iranian Shi'ite rituals are not accepted by other sects of Islam and could endanger the lives of Iranian Pilgrims if conducted openly).

Khobar Towers Bombing



On 23 June 1996, a massive truck bomb exploded near U.S. military barracks in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing nineteen U.S. servicemen and wounding hundreds. The US government held Iran responsible for the attack. The charges against Iran, however, remained unconfirmed, and therefore did not substantively affect the Iranian-Saudi relations.



1997 OIC meeting

The 1997 meeting of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) in Iran heralded a shift in the attitude of the Arab States towards Iran. Several Arab countries confirmed their commitment to the conference. Saudi Arabia, which was previously criticized by Iran because of its control over the main Islamic holy cities of Mecca and Medina and also because of its perceived reliance on the United States for security, also participated in the meeting. In the OIC summit meeting, Saudi Arabia was represented by Crown Prince Abdullah (later King) and its Minister of Foreign affairs Saud Al Faisal. Saudi participation proved helpful in the process of further reconciliation between Iran and Saudi Arabia. As a result, Saudi ministerial delegations visited Iran and later on, the official visit of President Mohammad Khattami to Saudi Arabia took place in February 1998.


Former Iranian president Khatami during his visit to Mecca in Saoudi Arabia

This was the first visit by the Iranian Premier to Saudi Arabia after the 1979 Iranian Revolution. The aim was to address pressing economic issues of the time. Iran was looking for a reallocation of OPEC (Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) producing quotas to which it required strong support from Saudi Arabia. It was also reported that Iran was trying to persuade Saudi Arabia to consider exporting the Iranian Infrastructure to Central Asia. Iran also expected that the issue of the regional security alliance would be raised in which the alliance for the security of the region could be made to ensure stability on both borders of the Persian Gulf.

A Comprehensive Cooperation Agreement was signed between Saudi Arabia and Iran in May 1998, in which both countries agreed to cooperate in the field of economics, culture and sports. The relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran was further improved when Khatami, the then President of Iran, on his tour to neighboring Arab countries, visited Saudi Arabia in May 1999. President Khatami stayed for five days in Saudi Arabia in which various discussions were held between the heads of both countries. Discussions included Persian Gulf security, efforts to increase global oil prices, the situation in Iraq and the development of a common geo-strategic approach to regional issues. The partial détente between Iran and the USA encouraged Saudi Arabia to apply more cooperation with President Khatami. In addition to this, Saudi Arabia and Iran signed an agreement known as the Saudi-Iranian security agreement in April 2001.

In July 1999, the late King Fahd of Saudi Arabia urged other Persian Gulf countries to improve their relations with Iran. King Fahd of Saudi Arabia, speaking at the opening session of the Shura Council said that it was in the interest of all the countries of the Persian Gulf to improve relations with Iran. He further said that all the other countries should follow Saudi Arabia's lead. This improved relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran also brought criticism from the United Arab Emirates, which criticised Saudi Arabia of abandoning UAE in its territorial disputes with Iran over three strategic Islands.

Saudi Arabia, Iran and the United States of America

As far as the relationship between Saudi Arabia and the U.S. is concerned, both countries have been strategic allies for more than sixty years. Saudi Arabia sees itself as a firm and generous partner of the U.S. in the cold war and in other international conflicts. The visits by US President George W. Bush to the Kingdom in 2008 reaffirmed these ties.


The late Saudi king - pictured here with President Obama in 2010


President George W. Bush and King Abdullah, pictured during the former president's visit to Saudi Arabia in 2008

Yet Saudis have always distanced themselves from American Foreign Policy, particularly with regards to Iran. Even when there was growing criticism against the former Iranian President, Mahmud Ahmadinejad, for his alleged hostile foreign policy in connection to Israel, Saudi Arabia recognised that Iran was a potential threat, and a regional power that was in position to create trouble within their borders. Therefore, Saudi Arabia's security over time required accommodation and good relations with its geographic neighbors notably Iran. Iran with its population of 80 million, almost four times the population of Saudi Arabia, is separated from Saudi Arabia by only a few miles across the waters of the Persian Gulf. It was here to stay, geographically speaking.

Prior to this visit, Saudi National Security advisor Prince Bandar bin Sultan, seen as one of the most pro-American figures in the region, had made a trip to Tehran to voice his government's interest in building harmonious relations with Iran. During Iranian President Ahmadinejad's 3 March 2007 visit, he discussed with King Abdullah the need to protect the Islamic world from enemy "conspiracies."


Prince Bandar bin Sultan

In 2007, President Ahmadinejad of Iran attended the first-ever annual summit of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) which was established in 1988 that aimed to contain the ambitions of revolutionary Iran. This visit by the President of Iran was an event which signaled a possible change in relations. Yet soon after the meeting, Saudi Arabia, the most senior member of the six GCC member states invited Mr. Ahmadinejad to Saudi Arabia to take part in the annual Hajj (pilgrimage) to Mecca.

In 2009, Saudi Prince Faisal said in a press conference with Hillary Clinton that the "threat posed by Iran demanded a more immediate solution than sanctions." This statement was condemned by Iranian officials.


U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (R) met with Saudi Arabia's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Prince Saud Al-Faisal January 10, 2011 in Washington, DC. Prince Saud Al-Faisal also met with U.S. President Barack Obama to discuss common interests between the two countries.

On 11 October 2011 US Attorney General Eric Holder accused Iran of planning to assassinate the Saudi-Arabian ambassador to the United States Adel Al-Jubbair.

In 2013, Saudi Ambassador to Britain Mohammed bin Nawaf bin Abdulaziz Al Saud wrote an editorial in The New York Times criticizing Saudi Arabia's Western allies for not taking bold enough measures against Syria and Iran, thus destabilizing the Middle East and forcing Saudi Arabia to become more aggressive in international affairs. The Obama administration continues to reassure the Persian Gulf states that regional security is a U.S. priority, but, as of December 2013, the Gulf states express skepticism.


Saudi Ambassador to Britain Mohammed bin Nawaf bin Abdulaziz Al Saud

Israel-Hamas conflict


Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal (L) holds a joint news conference with Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal following a meeting in Riyadh, Jan. 3, 2010.

Israel has constantly called Iran a staunch patron of Hamas, the current administration of the Gaza strip, whose militant wing has fought directly with Israel. Israeli leaders claim that Iran provides rhetoric support for Hamas, bitterly criticising Egypt and Saudi Arabia to break Israel's economic blockade of Gaza. During his stint, Iranian President Ahmadinejad strongly condemned Israeli attacks on Gaza and put pressure on Arab and other Muslim countries to help Hamas. Iranian President, Ahmadinejad urged King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia to speak out against Israel's attacks on Gaza. He also accused the Saudi King and other Arab leaders of being complicit in a "genocide" perpetrated against the Palestinians. Therefore, he demanded that all the Arab countries cut their, in-direct, ties with Israel. Iran has provided funding to Hamas and also supplied Hamas a number of Katyusha Grad Missiles.


Hamas fighters with Katyusha Grad Missiles in Gaza


Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei hosts Hamas Prime Minister of Gaza Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran


Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei with Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.

Shia insurgency in the Yemen


Houthi fighters in Sanaa, 21 September 2014

Yemeni rebels, known as Houthis, who are a politically infused religious rebel group based in Yemen, crossed into Saudi Arabia, whereby they killed two border guards and seized Saudi territory, including the strategically important Mount al-Doud.

This triggered the largest Saudi military operation since the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Yemen's government, as well as the Arabs, accused Iran of arming the Houthis. Iran has heavily criticized Saudi Arabia for their intervention in the Shia insurgency in Yemen. Iran's then president Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying: "Saudi Arabia was expected to mediate in Yemen's internal conflict as an older brother and restore peace to the Muslim state, rather than launching military strike and pounding bombs on Muslim civilians in the north of Yemen," whilst Saudi foreign minister Saud Al Faisal counter-accused Iran of meddling in Yemen's internal affairs.


The Houthis have been the dominant force in Yemen for months

Ahmadinejad went even further saying: "Some Western states invaded the region (Afghanistan and Iraq) in the wake of the September 11 attacks, whilst Al-Qaeda's main hub was located in another country in the region, which enjoys huge oil revenues and good relations with the United States and Western countries. There are some countries in the Middle East region that do not hold even a single election, don't allow women to drive, but the US and European governments are supporting their undemocratic governments," in reference to Saudi Arabia.


Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (R) walks hand with Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah as they arrive for the opening of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) summit in Doha December 3, 2007.

Iranian general Mir-Faisal Baqerzadeh changed his name to Seyed Mohammad Baqerzadeh in opposition to what he viewed as Saudi crimes committed in Sa'adah.

Wikileaks

In November 2010, Wikileaks disclosed various confidential documents pertaining to the US and its allies which revealed that King Abdullah urged the US to attack Iran to destroy its nuclear weapons programme, describing Iran as a snake whose head should be cut off without any procrastination. The documents were dismissed by Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, claiming them to be "organised to be released on a regular basis."


In May 2009, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sent out a cable to the Department's Iran experts around the world about "a report regarding an Iranian Government decision to remove anti-American slogans and art from Tehran's buildings".

Sanctions against Iran

In 2012, in response to the global sanctions against Iran, Saudi Arabia offered to offset the loss of Iranian oil sales and Iran warned against this. The same year Turki Al Faisal, former head of Saudi General Intelligence and a Saudi royal, suggested that Saudi Arabia would support the U.S.-led sanctions against Iranian oil.


Iranian, Saudi FMs Stress Enhancement of Ties, Security Cooperation

[karl]

I think perhaps one must remember of the very roots of Iran are of the ancient Persian. For they speak Farsi and not Arabic and of this are not of the Arabic family of thought.

My self would think perhaps this would be obvious to Western thinking, perhaps my self am wrong. For what ever the sand wonderiers that are now named: Arabs,, will think, are only turning over their worry beads in tune with the beat of their camel races they are so proud of.

Perhaps I am not a champion of Arabs, perhaps that would be true, for too many occasions of business dealings with these people have been in vain and disappointment. For to come together several Arabs will in turn, become a shouting match of nothing accomplished but all Arab parties happy.

In comparison, dealing with Iranians is vastly different, for they understand business and begin very quickly into the centre of dealings. I do think though, the Americans are being perhaps lead down a thorny path to believe these Arab people are their friends and confidents, for they have the tendency to play both sides of the field and will change sides at a moment if it suits their fancy.

And to think these Arabs were to think my self as a decendant of Assyrian, how so silly to think so..

For to lead the Americans upon a trail to no where. One may only visit the public disclosed site of Wikipedia to disclose the following:




Oil production in Iran 1950-2012


Iran is an energy superpower and the Petroleum industry in Iran plays an important part in it. In 2004 Iran produced 5.1 percent of the world’s total crude oil (3.9 million barrels (620,000 m3) per day), which generated revenues of US$25 billion to US$30 billion and was the country’s primary source of foreign currency.[6][7] At 2006 levels of production, oil proceeds represented about 18.7 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). However, the importance of the hydrocarbon sector to Iran’s economy has been far greater.

The oil and gas industry has been the engine of economic growth, directly affecting public development projects, the government’s annual budget, and most foreign exchange sources.

In FY 2009, for example, the sector accounted for 60 percent of total government revenues and 80 percent of the total annual value of both exports and foreign currency earnings.[8] Oil and gas revenues are affected by the value of crude oil on the international market. It has been estimated that at the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) quota level (December 2004), a one-dollar change in the price of crude oil on the international market would alter Iran’s oil revenues by US$1 billion.

In 2012, Iran, which exports around 1.5 million barrels of crude oil a day, was the second-largest exporter among the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.[9] In the same year, officials in Iran estimate that Iran's annual oil and gas revenues could reach $250 billion by 2015.[10] Iran plans to invest a total of $500 billion in the oil sector before 2025.

Presenter

Karl

[Jaga]

Iran and Saudi Arabia would never agree for closer cooperation due to their religious differences. As Pieter pointed out by relaying on Haretz, Jewish newspaper, this is probably one of the conspiracy theories done again by nobody else than Israel.

WHAT IS GOING ON THAT WE CANNOT JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT ISRAEL FOR AT LEAST ONE WEEK? When did we talk about Somalia, Ukraine? There are over 5 th victims in Ukraine and somehow this subject is dead.

[pieter]

Dear Jaga,

This topic isn't about Israel and even Haaretz doesn't focus on Israel primarly. Haarertz quotes a Lebanese (Arab) news source. This topic by the way is about Saoudi-Arabia and Iran. Israel is a side subject. Israel isn't the main topic in the Middle east right now. It is a small peace of territory. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is one of the many conflicts in the region. Syria, Iraq, Libiya, Yemen, The Egyptian Sinai desert (the attacks on the Egyptian army and police), Bahrein, Somalia, Sudan, South-Sudan, Nigeria/Niger today.

Ukraine is indeed going out of hand. I started this thread to talk about the Saoudi Arabs, the leader of Sunni Islam in the region and about the Persian Iranians, and Iran is the leader of the Shia Islam in the region (with it's ties, support and alliance with the Shia Muslims of Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Saoudi-Arabia, Bahrein, Qatar and even in Afghanistan ( the Shia Hazāra: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazara_people ) and Pakistan, and the Alawites of Bashar Hafez al-Assad in Syria). Saoudi Arabia and Iran are the two powerful entities in the Middle east. The third powerful Muslim entity is Egypt with it's military regime and power. Ofcourse Turkey is a powerful player in the field too. It supported the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.

What do you know about the Arab world, and it's minorities the Kurds, the Iranians, the Druze, Armenians, Assyrian Christians, Copts and Maronite christians? I remember that the Polish Peoples republic had a special bond with Arab nations. Many Polish military advisors, diplomats and ingeneers worked in the Arab world, North-Africa and in the Middle-east in general during the cold war, due to the warm ties between the Arab countries, the SovjetUnion and the Warsaw Pact countries. I know friends of my mother (member of the Democratic party or peasent party during communism) who were diplomats in Algeria and other Muslim countries.

Yes, Jaga, the situation in Eastern-Ukraine is very tense and dramatic right now. America is thinking about arming the Ukrainian army and Germany and France are on a heavy diplomatic mission in Kiev and Moscow. Merkel and Hollande travelled there. I wonder if the top meeting in Minsk between the Russian, Ukrainian, German and French governments will accomplish anything?

Cheers,
Pieter

[karl]

Pieter

With your exchange with Jaga and the reasons of topic you are covering, was a mention of this now past Deplomatic meeting with Putin. Rather or not it will bring about any dramatic changes in the currant situation in Ukraine is some what questionable.

What is not questionable is Frances Hollande digging in his heals against any symbalance of Ukraine entering into the EU. And as a personal noten, I absolutely do agree with him. For he {Hollande} is smart enough to figure out the prime reason of Ukraine wishing so hard to enter the EU is for the hand outs and financial support that has been so generous with Greece.

We do not need such as another tolet as Greece to flush down our resources off the brow sweat of working people. Ukraine created their own mess, the best path for them to follow is to dig them selves out of this self created mess. In this manner, they will have developed the means and manner of self sufficient foundation of self support.

In the manner of rejoining their country, it is to them to figure that out, it is their nation and their problem to deal with. To begin with, they {Ukrainians} best settle up the long past earth gas bills with the Russians as a starter. Then settle up with their own domestic affaires. From that point on, the future is what it will be.

Karl

[pieter]

Persian Gulf



The Persian Gulf, one of the most critical bodies of water, is positioned in the heart of the Middle East. Located in southwestern Asia, it separates the Arabian Peninsula from Iran (formerly called Persia).

It connects with the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Sea through the Strait of Hormuz, which is 30 to 60 miles (48 to 96 kilometers) wide.







The Persian Gulf and its coastal areas are the world's largest single source of crude oil. Therefore powerful naval forces from several countries remain in its waters to protect the flow of oil to the rest of the world, especially considering that the Persian Gulf supplies most of the world's energy needs.



War:
The Persian Gulf has been the focus of the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq War, in which each side attacked the other's oil tankers.

In 1991, the Persian Gulf again was the background for what was called the "Persian Gulf War" or the "Gulf War" when Iraq invaded Kuwait; although despite the name this conflict was primarily over land.

The Persian Gulf:



1. Surface area = 92,500 square miles = 240,000 square kilometers

2. The Persian Gulf extends 615 miles (990 kilometers) from northwest to southeast.

3. Width ranges from 35 miles (56 kilometers) in the southeast to a maximum of 210 miles (338 kilometers).
Coastline
Countries with a coastline on the Persian Gulf consist of:

1. Iran to the north,
2. Part of Oman to the east,
3. the United Arab Emirates and Qatar to the south,
4. Saudi Arabia to the southwest,
5. and Kuwait and Iraq to the northwest.

Various small islands also lie within the Persian Gulf.

On almost all maps printed before 1960, and in most modern international treaties, documents and maps, this body of water is known as the "Persian Gulf".

In recent years, and since 1960's certain groups have attempted to change the name and history of this ancient gulf.

National day

The Islamic Republic of Iran designated April 30th as the "national day of Persian Gulf" and has also issued a series of stamps commemorating the “The national day of Persian Gulf".

[pieter]

The Persians have enjoyed being nasty about their Arab neighbours at least since the seventh century, when their land was invaded by Arab armies. From satirical verses about “locust-eaters” out of the parched wastes of Araby to periodic efforts to “purify” the Persian language of Arabic accretions, assertions of cultural superiority have masked a deep historical resentment.

Now a row over three spots in the middle of the Persian Gulf (which Arabs, naturally, prefer to call the Arabian Gulf) has provoked fresh transports of emotion—on both sides. A recent trip by Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to the tiny island of Abu Musa, about 75km (47 miles) from Iran's south coast, prompted the United Arab Emirates (UAE) to restate in no uncertain terms its own claims to the island and to two barely inhabited chunks of rock nearby.

Iranian comedian


British Iranian comedian




Iranian nationalists responded joyfully. Anti-Arab gags dominated comedy programmes on state radio, while astonishment was expressed in parliament and in the newspapers at the cheek of the “little sheikhs” to the south, their confected country barely four decades old, daring to address the heirs of Cyrus the Great. If the people of Iran's southernmost province all blew at once across the Gulf, one wag remarked, “the wind would carry the Emirates away.”


Cyrus eyeballs the locust-eaters

The war of words may well have been deliberately engineered by Mr Ahmadinejad, narked at being sidelined in Iran's latest nuclear negotiations with the West. But the president's attention-seeking is not risk-free. Abu Musa occupies a commanding position near the mouth of the Strait of Hormuz, through which a fifth of the world's oil passes under the protective eye of the American navy. Iran has threatened to block the strait in the event of a Western attack on its nuclear facilities.

Both parties claim that the islands have been part, since antiquity, of their cultural and political sphere. Iran's last shah seized them in 1971, as Britain abandoned its former possessions in the Gulf and the UAE was being set up. The Iranians have since strengthened their grip on the islands, settling mainlanders and building military defences, though Mr Ahmadinejad is the first head of government actually to visit any of them.

Barring a rash move on either side, Mr Ahmadinejad's jaunt will probably not change very much. The Emiratis, backed by their Arab brethren, particularly the Saudis, have long pressed for negotiations over the island's sovereignty or for referral to the International Court at The Hague. The Iranians offer only talks aimed at resolving “misunderstandings”.

[pieter]

[pieter]

Hatred of Arabs deeply rooted in Persians, says Iranian intellectual
Sunday, 09 October 2011

By SAUD AL-ZAHED
DUBAI


Iranian intellectual Sadek Zibakalam says that most Iranians hate not only Arabs, but many other peoples as well. (File photo)

The relationship between Arabs and Persians has always been a source of controversy, not only owing to the contemporary power struggle in the region, but also because of a long history of rivalry that formed an integral part of the national psyche of both people. Iranian intellectual Sadek Zibakalam provides deep insight into the different levels of this enduring animosity.

“I think the majority of Iranians of all types hate Arabs, and I believe they hate us, too,” Sadek Zibakalam, who is also a professor at the University of Tehran, said in an interview with the Iranian weekly Sobh Azade.

Zibakalam said there is a link between racism and a lack of education, and pointed out that this is the case in Europe, where people who express hatred against Jews or Muslims or foreigners are mostly uneducated. However, the situation tends to be different in Iran.

“The phenomenon of hating Arabs is very common among intellectuals in Iran,” he said.

He added that religious people also frequently express their resentment of Arabs, which usually comes in the form of curses directed at Sunnis.

“As a matter of fact, Iranians’ constant attacks on Sunnis stem from their hatred of Arabs.”

This hatred, Zibakalam argued, is not the product of the current hegemony conflict in the region, as many people might suspect, but has its roots in history.

“Persians will never forget their defeat at the hands of Arabs in the Battle of Qadisiya 1,400 years ago. It is as if a fire keeps seething under the ashes and is waiting for the right moment to explode,” he said.

Iran’s attempts to gain supremacy in the region are not triggered by political ambition as much as by a racist drive that pushes Iranians to prove they are superior, the professor said.

“Whenever Iran issues any fiery statement about our neighbors in the U.A.E, Qatar, or Kuwait, you can easily detect that they revolve around a belief that Persians are superior. Listen to our foreign minister, parliament speaker, or even mosque imams, and you will notice that derogatory tone they use and which focuses on the racial and not the political superiority of Persians.”

He cited the example of the U.A.E., which many Iranians, politicians and clergy derides in their statements.

“They would say that if Iranians just blow some air across the Persian Gulf, they would wipe the U.A.E off the map,” he said.

When asked whether the stance of the people is similar to that of the government as far as hatred of Arabs is concerned, Zibakalam replied in the affirmative.

“Yes, people are like the government, and may be even more racist and intolerant.”

For example, he said, when a couple of years ago the U.A.E said it was not going to drop its opposition to Iran’s occupation of three disputed Islands in the Gulf and referring to the “Persian Gulf,” large numbers of people rallied in front of the U.A.E embassy in Tehran with a cake that had 35 candles: "they were making fun of the U.A.E’s 35-year history, compared to Iran’s 2,500.”


University of Tehran professor Sadegh Zibakalam

He added that Iranians also criticize their compatriots who travel to Arab countries. For example, they always ask why they would go and spend their money in Arab countries, while they never do the same with Turkey, where huge numbers of Iranians go.

“This even applies to religious trips to the Arab world, while if Mecca or Karbala were in Turkey or Malaysia, Iranians would not have a problem with people going there,” Zibakalam said.

He added that Persian racism against Arabs becomes very clear in language, and that the establishment of the Persian Language Institute was intended to carry out a plan to remove Arabic words from the Persian language.

“Arabic words that have been in the Persian language for more than 1,00 years would be removed even though they are mentioned in great literary works like The Shahnameh and the poetry of Rumi, all of which are parts of our history.”

Zibakalam also admitted that this “racism” for which Iranians are known is not practiced against Arabs only, but also against other non-Persian ethnicities inside Iran.

“If for example we take jokes as an indication of the way we view people, you will find how the Turkmens and the Lur are the most ridiculed in our jokes.”

That same goes for other groups, such as Kurds and the Baluchi, he added.



Zibakalam was born in 1948 to a Shiite family in Tehran and obtained his Ph.D. in political science from the University of Bradford in the U.K. He is currently a member of the Scientific Association at Tehran University.

Zibakalam was a critic of the Shah and a supporter of former Prime Minister Mohamed Mossadeq. He was sent to jail for two years during the Shah’s reign.

After the 1979 Islamic Revolution, Zebakalam held several government positions and played a major role in the Iranian Cultural Revolution, in which academics who did not toe the line of the new republic were dismissed. He, however, expressed his regret for taking part in the revolution and issued a direct apology.

One of the things known about Zebakalam is that he has never belonged to any party, and that he criticizes both conservatives and reformists. He is also said to be close to former Iranian President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani.

(Translated from Arabic by Sonia Farid)

Interesting link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_League%E2%80%93Iran_relations


Sonia Farid, Ph.D., is an Assistant Professor of English Literature at Cairo University. She is a translator, editor, and political activist. Her social work focuses on political awareness and women’s rights and her writing interests include society, politics, and security in Egypt. She took part in a number of local and international conferences and published several academic papers.

P.S.- The same things I heard of Iranians in the Netherlands. They are very Patriotic and/or Nationalistic Iranian, Very proud of the more than 5 thousand year old culture, their Manichaeist, Zoroastrianist, Shia Muslim and even Bahai heritage. Iranians are very offended if they are seen as Arabs or Turks by Westerners. The Iranian community in the West is very pluriform and very well organized, sophisticated and traditional Iranian. They have their own tv chanals, radio stations, newspapers, magazines and blogs/websites in the West. There is a large Iranian-American community in the USA stemming from the time that the Shah was stil in power. A lot of the Iranians in Europe and the USA are Shah supporters. Others are oponents of the Shah, former dissidents. I have met Iranians in the Netherlands who opposed both the Shah and the Khomeini theocratic regime. Some are Iranian Marxists, secularists, liberals or conservative nationalists. I met the fiercest anti-religious, Anti-Islamic/Muslim people amongst some Iranians. They hated the regime of clerics. They want a free, democratic and Patriotic Iran, not an Islamic Iran. The Islamic Iran of today they see as the result of the Arab occupation a long time ago. Islam was forced on them by the Arab Muslim invaders, Some of the Iranians I met even detested their own (non-Persian) Muslim Arab names, like ALi, Achmed or Mohammed.

[pieter]

www.opendemocracy.net/arab-awakening/maged-mandour/iran-and-arab-world-change-in-foreign-policy

[Jaga]

Dear Pieter,

Iran is so demonized in America that I cannot listen anymore about how bad Iran and Iranians are. The title of this thread... about alleged Saudi Arab and Iran cooperation sounds like conspiracy theory similar to accusing Jews of collaborating with Germans on Holocaust.

Besides, you other post about alleged hate of Iranians towards Arabs would logically contradict the first post about cooperation between Saudi and Iran. If Iranians naturally hate Arabs why would they cooperate with Arabs against Israel. Israel has a wonderful propaganda machine paid by US taxpayers.

I AM TAKING BREAK FROM ANY ISRAEL OR IRAN RELATED THREADS. MAybe we should ignore for a while all countries whose names start with I >)))
Please, do the same.
I would love to learn more about other Arab minorities. I know a bit them. But there is much more going on. Arab countries are very diverse. In some, like Syria, Jordan or Palestine, women have much more rights than in Saudi Arabia.

Feb 8, 2015 11:21:15 GMT -7 pieter said:

Dear Jaga,

This topic isn't about Israel and even Haaretz doesn't focus on Israel primarly. Haarertz quotes a Lebanese (Arab) news source. This topic by the way is about Saoudi-Arabia and Iran. Israel is a side subject. Israel isn't the main topic in the Middle east right now. It is a small peace of territory. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is one of the many conflicts in the region. Syria, Iraq, Libiya, Yemen, The Egyptian Sinai desert (the attacks on the Egyptian army and police), Bahrein, Somalia, Sudan, South-Sudan, Nigeria/Niger today.

Ukraine is indeed going out of hand. I started this thread to talk about the Saoudi Arabs, the leader of Sunni Islam in the region and about the Persian Iranians, and Iran is the leader of the Shia Islam in the region (with it's ties, support and alliance with the Shia Muslims of Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Saoudi-Arabia, Bahrein, Qatar and even in Afghanistan ( the Shia Hazāra: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazara_people ) and Pakistan, and the Alawites of Bashar Hafez al-Assad in Syria). Saoudi Arabia and Iran are the two powerful entities in the Middle east. The third powerful Muslim entity is Egypt with it's military regime and power. Ofcourse Turkey is a powerful player in the field too. It supported the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.

What do you know about the Arab world, and it's minorities the Kurds, the Iranians, the Druze, Armenians, Assyrian Christians, Copts and Maronite christians? I remember that the Polish Peoples republic had a special bond with Arab nations. Many Polish military advisors, diplomats and ingeneers worked in the Arab world, North-Africa and in the Middle-east in general during the cold war, due to the warm ties between the Arab countries, the SovjetUnion and the Warsaw Pact countries. I know friends of my mother (member of the Democratic party or peasent party during communism) who were diplomats in Algeria and other Muslim countries.

Yes, Jaga, the situation in Eastern-Ukraine is very tense and dramatic right now. America is thinking about arming the Ukrainian army and Germany and France are on a heavy diplomatic mission in Kiev and Moscow. Merkel and Hollande travelled there. I wonder if the top meeting in Minsk between the Russian, Ukrainian, German and French governments will accomplish anything?

Cheers,
Pieter

[Jaga]

I met first Egyptian Copt here in America. He was a part of the team from Chevron who actually helped to arrange a stipend for me to come to the US. Before that I did not know too much about it.
Referring to Armenians, yes, I read about their early Christian culture. Some Armenians settles also in Poland. I never was in Armenia. Referring to Druzes, They were before Islam invaded areas of Persia, I guess.

[pieter]