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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Apr 22, 2015 5:19:58 GMT -7
O N THIS DAY IN 1918, "THE RED BARON" OF IMPERIAL GERMANY PERISHED IN AERIAL COMBATManfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen (2 May 1892 – 21 April 1918), also widely known as the Red Baron, was a German fighter pilot with the Imperial German Army Air Service (Luftstreitkräfte) during the First World War. He is considered the top ace of the war, being officially credited with 80 air combat victories. Originally a cavalryman, Richthofen transferred to the Air Service in 1915, becoming one of the first members of Jasta 2 in 1916. He quickly distinguished himself as a fighter pilot, and during 1917 became leader of Jasta 11 and then the larger unit Jagdgeschwader 1 (better known as the "Flying Circus"). By 1918, he was regarded as a national hero in Germany, and widely respected even by his enemies. Richthofen was shot down and killed near Amiens on 21 April 1918. There has been considerable discussion and debate regarding aspects of his career, especially the circumstances of his death. He remains perhaps the most widely known fighter pilot of all time, and has been the subject of many books, films and other media.
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Post by karl on Apr 22, 2015 20:50:11 GMT -7
J.J.
Perhaps at risk of condemnation by people of the then allies, my opinion: The young baron, Manfred Albrechet Freiherr von Richthofen, was a young man of his time, in his time to follow his beliefs, to fight for his country, him self, the fellow pilots he fought with and most of all, to survive. And, this was the fight he could not win,for he died and to join the many that will never grow old.
Thank you for reminder with that date in time.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Apr 22, 2015 23:09:33 GMT -7
Thank you John and Karl. You are right Karl! Interesting detail is that the later Luftwaffe minister Hermann Wilhelm Göring was a pilot during the First World War too. During the first year of World War I, Göring served with his infantry regiment in the area of Mülhausen, a garrison town only a mile from the French frontier. He was hospitalized with rheumatism, a result of the damp of trench warfare. While he was recovering, his friend Bruno Loerzer convinced him to transfer to what would become, by October 1916, the Luftstreitkräfte (" air combat force") of the German army, but his request was turned down. Later that year, Göring flew as Loerzer's observer in Feldflieger Abteilung 25 ( FFA 25) – Göring had informally transferred himself. He was discovered and sentenced to three weeks' confinement to barracks, but the sentence was never carried out. By the time it was supposed to be imposed, Göring's association with Loerzer had been made official. They were assigned as a team to FFA 25 in the Crown Prince's Fifth Army. They flew reconnaissance and bombing missions, for which the Crown Prince invested both Göring and Loerzer with the Iron Cross, first class. Bruno Loerzer, Oberleutnant, Commander, Jasta 26After completing the pilot's training course, Göring was assigned to Jagdstaffel 5. Seriously wounded in the hip in aerial combat, he took nearly a year to recover. He then was transferred to Jagdstaffel 26, commanded by Loerzer, in February 1917. He steadily scored air victories until May, when he was assigned to command Jagdstaffel 27. Serving with Jastas 5, 26, and 27, he continued to win victories. In addition to his Iron Crosses ( 1st and 2nd Class), he received the Zaehring Lion with swords, the Friedrich Order, the House Order of Hohenzollern with swords third class, and finally, in May 1918, the coveted Pour le Mérite. According to Hermann Dahlmann, who knew both men, Göring had Loerzer lobby for the award. He finished the war with 22 victories. A thorough post-war examination of Allied loss records showed that only two of his claimed victories were doubtful. Three were possible and 17 were certain, or highly likely. Hermann Wilhelm Göring, World War I Flying Ace, recipient of the Pour le MériteOn 7 July 1918, following the death of Wilhelm Reinhard, successor to Manfred von Richthofen, Göring was made commander of the famed " Flying Circus", Jagdgeschwader 1. His arrogance made him unpopular with the men of his squadron. In the last days of the war, Göring was repeatedly ordered to withdraw his squadron, first to Tellancourt airdrome, then to Darmstadt. At one point, he was ordered to surrender the aircraft to the Allies; he refused. Many of his pilots intentionally crash-landed their planes to keep them from falling into enemy hands.
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Post by kaima on Apr 23, 2015 6:46:51 GMT -7
J.J. Perhaps at risk of condemnation by people of the then allies, my opinion: The young baron, Manfred Albrechet Freiherr von Richthofen, was a young man of his time, in his time to follow his beliefs, to fight for his country, him self, the fellow pilots he fought with and most of all, to survive. And, this was the fight he could not win,for he died and to join the many that will never grow old. Thank you for reminder with that date in time. Karl I wlked out on the movie "Troy" yesterday/ I was watching it with my neighbors and around the first battle one 'hero' is exhorting his invading men to "get out there and defend your country". That call has been made for just about every war I have heard of. In this case the soldiers had to get out there and die because their allies former queen had some appetite for some foreign pootang. Whoopie! Another war justified! AA good cause to die for. Anyone care to invade Iraq again? This time let's send all the sons and daughters of the super patriots and armorers first/ That will be a short war that never happens.
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Post by karl on Apr 23, 2015 16:52:53 GMT -7
J.J. Perhaps at risk of condemnation by people of the then allies, my opinion: The young baron, Manfred Albrechet Freiherr von Richthofen, was a young man of his time, in his time to follow his beliefs, to fight for his country, him self, the fellow pilots he fought with and most of all, to survive. And, this was the fight he could not win,for he died and to join the many that will never grow old. Thank you for reminder with that date in time. Karl I wlked out on the movie "Troy" yesterday/ I was watching it with my neighbors and around the first battle one 'hero' is exhorting his invading men to "get out there and defend your country". That call has been made for just about every war I have heard of. In this case the soldiers had to get out there and die because their allies former queen had some appetite for some foreign pootang. Whoopie! Another war justified! AA good cause to die for. Anyone care to invade Iraq again? This time let's send all the sons and daughters of the super patriots and armorers first/ That will be a short war that never happens. Kai Thank you for speaking your mind, it is much better to be honest then to be silent with holding back your personal truth. What I do not agree with your reply, is {Whoopie! Another war justified! A good cause to die for} We never fight a war to die for, it is the utmost requirement to insure the enemy will die for his. I am not for war for the matter of resulting deaths and destruction of property. But, I am not against war. With this, my self was not to place qualifications to or of the war. For this is a decision that is entirely to my government. For as a former solder your self, you know as well as my self, we are told what to do, and we do it because we must. But then, this is simply rhetoric, for my age would insure for the nursing homes be raided for bodies before reaching my depth for military duty. Karl
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Post by kaima on Apr 24, 2015 0:10:53 GMT -7
the first battle one 'hero' is exhorting his invading men to "get out there and defend your country".Whoopie! Another war justified! And good cause to die for. <corrected my spelling 'And"> Kai What I do not agree with your reply, is {Whoopie! Another war justified! A good cause to die for} We never fight a war to die for, it is the utmost requirement to insure the enemy will die for his. Karl Yes, helping the other fellow die for his country is what our General Patton told his troops to do. But soldiers get excited, politicins lie, and all of a sudden you are in reality killing and dying "to defend your country" rather than 'help your lustful prince screw someone else's wife'. In reality I feel soldiers end up risking all and too often dying, for the love of their fellow soldiers. The comerads cannot be let down. The ultimate goal of the war, true of false, comes after the loyalty to the fellow soldier. Kai
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Post by karl on Apr 24, 2015 7:11:26 GMT -7
Kai
It is of my most upmost opinion you have the truth here, for in reality beyond the grand words, a solders risk is for his fellow solders. For these are indeed his brothers he lives with and fights with and share the hardships that comes with their lives.
{In reality I feel soldiers end up risking all and too often dying, for the love of their fellow soldiers. The comerads cannot be let down. The ultimate goal of the war, true of false, comes after the loyalty to the fellow soldier.}
Thank you for your above contribution for that is indeed so, the very truth.
Karl
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