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Post by Jaga on Dec 21, 2016 13:57:53 GMT -7
People in Poland and in the US are so divided. They try to find one scape goat, like rampant islamists, bad liberals, or bad Trump.
Can we find rather things that connect us rather they divide. Something we could compromise and agree upon?
here is more:
discussion of Samantha Bee (liberal) with Glen Beck - very funny and educational
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Post by karl on Dec 21, 2016 16:00:53 GMT -7
Dear Jaga
My self not American and with this, do lack in spite of some generious pre-training of Canada and America. But not in this realm of Polish/American relations.
Before any resolution is to be emplaced, the problem must be recognized. So what is the problem?
Karl
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Post by Jaga on Dec 21, 2016 21:48:00 GMT -7
Dear Jaga So what is the problem? Karl Karl, the problem is that our forum as well as mass media are flooded with messages/news covering extreme Muslims doing something bad against Christians. THIS IS TO CREATE FEAR AND HATE OF MUSLIMS. and you know what? More people died in alcohol poisoning in Russia than in the attack in Berlin, but who talks about it? John would post 5 more articles hateful against Muslims or showing bad muslims and NOBODY except Pieter seem to care what is going on in Poland with CHRISTIAN, VERY CATHOLIC RIGHT WING GOVERNMENT which behave like fashist government
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Post by karl on Dec 22, 2016 6:47:12 GMT -7
Dear Jaga So what is the problem? Karl Karl, the problem is that our forum as well as mass media are flooded with messages/news covering extreme Muslims doing something bad against Christians. THIS IS TO CREATE FEAR AND HATE OF MUSLIMS. and you know what? More people died in alcohol poisoning in Russia than in the attack in Berlin, but who talks about it? John would post 5 more articles hateful against Muslims or showing bad muslims and NOBODY except Pieter seem to care what is going on in Poland with CHRISTIAN, VERY CATHOLIC RIGHT WING GOVERNMENT which behave like fashist government Jaga I do and have understood the consternation you have with the over burden of such subjects as have been presented concerning The Islamic problem{s} in Europe. With this, not so much with the currant issues and situation that is in Poland concerning the new Government. You are very fortunant to live in America, I am not sure if you have a US citizenship or not, as with that, is non of my business. The fact of the matter, you did leave your home land to be in America for what ever reason that is only yours to say. The only actual ties you have in Poland is your family and your memories. If perhaps you once completed your education, then returned to Poland to apply your training as a useful Polish citizen, then this would be a different matter in concerns of the currant and present situation in Poland. The new Polish Government was duly and faithfully elected and backed by the Polish voting citizens. If is fully recognized by the international community as such. As long as no laws are broken as a member of the EU, the people are not brutalized, the new government has the right given to it to pass what and which ever laws it may see as appropriate to the event. For this is a internal matter that is to Poland to see fit, not of International concern. My self am non-Polish, you are very much aware of my ethnic back ground and working relationship with both Israel and Russians alike. My past experience with Polish people on the street and on this forum have not been exactly positive with exception being with your self, Pieter and J.J.. For this reason, I do restrain from entering more then limited replies and presentations concerning Poland. We must be realistic in these matters that concerns the instrument of conveyance in subjects that are personally dear to us. My self do hold a dual German and Danish citizenship, but do not push this into the face of others that are my friends here. I hold a great deal of respect to every one here and value most dearly their friendship in return. For this reason, my self to take care and caution to not present any thing that would bring displeasure to others. It is for this reason my self only enter in limited discussion of Polish subjects. J.J. has been exceptional lenient with negative American subjects my self have in past and present to present. My self and am very grateful to his tolerance, The American foreign policies can be very damaging to us as Europeans and with this, not so well known by the American public. Wishing not to write a book of this issue you have brought forward, but only enough to describe some sort of answer that us understandable to you. Karl
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Post by Eric on Dec 22, 2016 9:17:36 GMT -7
Karl, I have to disagree with you on numerous points here.
That Jaga is not living in Poland has no connection with any diminished connection she has with Poland, political and economic events in the country, and the condition of its society. A person always wishes for good things for places and the people there with which one has a strong connection. By your logic, I should forget about what's happening in Massachusetts and Russia since I no longer live there, but, quite the contrary, I pay very close attention to what is happening in both places, just as if I was still living there.
The fact that such a far-right government was elected by Polish citizens only highlights the continuing trend of political conservative extremism that is taking place throughout Europe and, indeed, around the world. As for the controversial law about press access to parliament, there is, in fact, considerable disagreement throughout Polish society, and, in fact, that law may actually be in breach of European rules. However, because Poland is one of the so-called flashpoints in the (largely manufactured) "conflict" with Russia, it's very important to Europe that Poland remain within the European fold, so there are certainly things which will get overlooked just to keep Poland and the EU on good terms.
If you have such negative experiences with Poles, as you claim, I can't understand why you spend so much time in what's supposed to be (but seems to no longer be) a pro-Poland forum, unless you really enjoy communicating with such a small group of people here... and even then, considering the content of the majority of posts lately, I wonder just what it is that keeps bringing you back here, unless there's something you obviously agree with.
If J.J. is being "lenient" with his extremist anti-Muslim posts, as you say, then I'm terrified to think of the kinds of things he'd post if he weren't holding himself back for our sake.
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Post by karl on Dec 22, 2016 10:31:34 GMT -7
Eric
It is good you are returning to the forum to then add to the flavour with your presence. It was interesting to see your comments and most interesting of your intrinsic feelings, it is good to be honest.
Karl
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Post by Jaga on Dec 22, 2016 13:42:02 GMT -7
Karl,
I have a bit more ties to Poland than just my family and memories. I can read Polish newspapers, watch Polish TV, do more than a person that does not know Polish language. Among my friends and family there are people on both sides of the aisle. Referring to Eric's comments. He is right that there is lots of discontent in Poland about what the current government is doing and acting without the common consensus. Mr. Kaczynski forces "legal" regulations without a consensus of a half of Polish people. He causes a big frustrations. Besides, Polish official mass media are not free and not democratic. Several people were fired from Polish radio and TV because they were speaking freely. The mass media are own by ruling Kaczynski's part and they act as his wing. Kaczynski does not try to find any consensus.
Karl, I appreciate your posts, but it is difficult for me to see so many posts targeted to fear of militant islam.
Do you think that the ruling majority party should force rapid changes into the society just because they can? Without finding any compromise?
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Post by Jaga on Dec 22, 2016 13:52:00 GMT -7
Eric, it is good to see your fresh perspective here in the forum. I also hope that the forum would survive... we just need to communicate better and find more in common
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Post by karl on Dec 22, 2016 14:37:03 GMT -7
Karl, I have a bit more ties to Poland than just my family and memories. I can read Polish newspapers, watch Polish TV, do more than a person that does not know Polish language. Among my friends and family there are people on both sides of the aisle. Referring to Eric's comments. He is right that there is lots of discontent in Poland about what the current government is doing and acting without the common consensus. Mr. Kaczynski forces "legal" regulations without a consensus of a half of Polish people. He causes a big frustrations. Besides, Polish official mass media are not free and not democratic. Several people were fired from Polish radio and TV because they were speaking freely. The mass media are own by ruling Kaczynski's part and they act as his wing. Kaczynski does not try to find any consensus. Karl, I appreciate your posts, but it is difficult for me to see so many posts targeted to fear of militant islam. Do you think that the ruling majority party should force rapid changes into the society just because they can? Without finding any compromise? Jaga You have asked me a question of personal opinion and I will answer as best I have to offer. Government represents the best interest of the people it represents, with this, to the state. Its existence is in consistence with all that is of that state. My own personal opinion and not professional, is Kaczynski has failed his responsibility to both the state and the Polish people. He is and always been a potential liability to both the people he represents in as well as the state he is responsible for. He has lied to both the Polish people and has lied to the state he is responsible for. The man should never have been allowed to go as far as he has in politecs,, but has done so with teaming up with his twin brother that should have rung alarm bells many years past. At present, he is protecting his manner of government with the use of the Polish military in the similar manner as once done in Argentina. The scenario is very similar in the manner that dictators use, Kaczynski is little different. It is not inconceivable that if he is allowed to go too far, he may face a back lash from one of many factions such as military commanders. Although all of this is all speculation, but follows the similar map of progression of such people. The above is my personal feeling but not my professional feelings, each of the same source, but is different by necessity. The following url is informative, although a bit long in reading, non the less provides a mature description our subject at hand: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/31/poland-leader-jaroslaw-kaczynskiKarl
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Dec 23, 2016 6:40:20 GMT -7
Karl, I have to disagree with you on numerous points here. That Jaga is not living in Poland has no connection with any diminished connection she has with Poland, political and economic events in the country, and the condition of its society. A person always wishes for good things for places and the people there with which one has a strong connection. By your logic, I should forget about what's happening in Massachusetts and Russia since I no longer live there, but, quite the contrary, I pay very close attention to what is happening in both places, just as if I was still living there. The fact that such a far-right government was elected by Polish citizens only highlights the continuing trend of political conservative extremism that is taking place throughout Europe and, indeed, around the world. As for the controversial law about press access to parliament, there is, in fact, considerable disagreement throughout Polish society, and, in fact, that law may actually be in breach of European rules. However, because Poland is one of the so-called flashpoints in the (largely manufactured) "conflict" with Russia, it's very important to Europe that Poland remain within the European fold, so there are certainly things which will get overlooked just to keep Poland and the EU on good terms. If you have such negative experiences with Poles, as you claim, I can't understand why you spend so much time in what's supposed to be (but seems to no longer be) a pro-Poland forum, unless you really enjoy communicating with such a small group of people here... and even then, considering the content of the majority of posts lately, I wonder just what it is that keeps bringing you back here, unless there's something you obviously agree with. If J.J. is being "lenient" with his extremist anti-Muslim posts, as you say, then I'm terrified to think of the kinds of things he'd post if he weren't holding himself back for our sake. WHAT'S AN INFIDEL?
The author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry. The man who walks with God always gets to his destination. If you have a pulse you have a purpose. The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races. Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who each explained their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Muslim gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Muslim and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?' There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!' I responded, 'so, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?' The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.' He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.' I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine The Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!' The Muslim was speechless. I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question: Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?' You could have heard a pin drop. Needless to say, the organizers of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. I am being very lenient. This is a murderous cult.!!!
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Dec 23, 2016 7:07:40 GMT -7
McCarran-Walter Act Of 1952I knew of this Act, but had forgotten it until recently; it has been a law for almost 65 years. Here are the historic facts that would seem to indicate that many, if not most, of the people we elect to work for us in Washington DC do NOT have the slightest idea of what laws already exist in OUR country. After several terrorist incidents were carried out in the United States, Donald Trump was severely, criticized for suggesting that the U.S. should limit or temporarily suspend the immigration of certain ethnic groups, nationalities, and even people of certain religions (Muslims). The criticisms condemned such a suggestion as, among other things, being Un-American, dumb, stupid, reckless, dangerous and racist. Congressmen and Senators swore that they would never allow such legislation, and our illustrious President called such a prohibition on immigration unconstitutional. As Gomer Pyle would say, “Well, Surprise, Surprise!” It seems that the selective immigration ban is already law and has been applied on several occasions. Known as the McCarran-Walter Act, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 allows for the "Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by the President, whenever the President finds that the entry of aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States. The President may, by proclamation, and for such a period as he shall deem necessary, may suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrants or impose any restrictions on the entry of aliens he may deem to be appropriate." And who do you suppose last utilized this process? Why it was Democrat President Jimmy Carter, no less than 37 years ago, in 1979, to keep Iranians out of the United States. But he actually did more. He made ALL Iranian students,already in the United States, check in with the government. And then he deported a bunch of them. Seven thousand were found in violation of their visas, and a total of 15,000 Iranians were forced to leave the USA in 1979. So, what say you about all of the criticism that Donald Trump received from the Democrat Senators, Representatives and the Obama Administration? Additionally, it is important to note that the McCarran-Walter Act also requires that an “applicant for immigration must be of good moral character and inagreement with the principles of our Constitution.” Therefore, one could surmise that since the Quran forbids Muslims to swear allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, technically, ALL Muslims should be refused immigration to OUR country. Authenticated at: library.uwb.edu/Static/USimmigration/1952_immigration_and_nationality_act.htmlImmigration and Nationality Act of 1952
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Post by Jaga on Dec 23, 2016 7:08:12 GMT -7
Karl, I agree. I am surprised how much power this guy has even WITHOUT his brother. How much some people trust him seeing some traditional values in him. The article is good in Guardian. You have asked me a question of personal opinion and I will answer as best I have to offer. Government represents the best interest of the people it represents, with this, to the state. Its existence is in consistence with all that is of that state. My own personal opinion and not professional, is Kaczynski has failed his responsibility to both the state and the Polish people. He is and always been a potential liability to both the people he represents in as well as the state he is responsible for. He has lied to both the Polish people and has lied to the state he is responsible for. The man should never have been allowed to go as far as he has in politecs,, but has done so with teaming up with his twin brother that should have rung alarm bells many years past. At present, he is protecting his manner of government with the use of the Polish military in the similar manner as once done in Argentina. The scenario is very similar in the manner that dictators use, Kaczynski is little different. It is not inconceivable that if he is allowed to go too far, he may face a back lash from one of many factions such as military commanders. Although all of this is all speculation, but follows the similar map of progression of such people. The above is my personal feeling but not my professional feelings, each of the same source, but is different by necessity. The following url is informative, although a bit long in reading, non the less provides a mature description our subject at hand: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/31/poland-leader-jaroslaw-kaczynskiKarl
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Post by Eric on Dec 23, 2016 19:31:39 GMT -7
John, you really need to stop posting your anti-Islam propaganda here. There are other places for that, but this is not a hate forum!
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Post by Jaga on Dec 23, 2016 23:09:46 GMT -7
John, I saw your many posts which are just pure anti-islamic propaganda. Please, stop it. You cannot blame Islam on Polish parliamentary crisis, the post about Sobieski contained also inappropriate language.
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Post by kaima on Dec 24, 2016 12:18:41 GMT -7
John, you really need to stop posting your anti-Islam propaganda here. There are other places for that, but this is not a hate forum!I must agree with you, Eric. In addition it expresses very un-Christian sentiments and hatred in this most holy of Christian holidays. It is not just a few of the extreme Moslems who scare me, but some of the extreme Christians who paint hatred everywhere. This is to be condemned from the "Rev'. Ian Paisley in Ireland of the 1960's Irish religious wars to today's expression of hatred. Joy to the World! Happy Hanukkah! Happy Holidays to all! Kai
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