jeanne
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 544
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Post by jeanne on Jun 11, 2017 15:07:12 GMT -7
Hello Karl,
Since you are a former sea-faring man, I thought you might answer this question for me. Since I grew up on the coast in the U.S., I am quite familiar with the sound of fog-horns, but I'm wondering if fog-horns are strictly an American phenomenon, or if they are found throughout the world? I'm particularly interested in whether they are found in Europe.
Thanks for any input, Karl.
Jeanne
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Post by karl on Jun 11, 2017 16:14:01 GMT -7
Hello Karl, Since you are a former sea-faring man, I thought you might answer this question for me. Since I grew up on the coast in the U.S., I am quite familiar with the sound of fog-horns, but I'm wondering if fog-horns are strictly an American phenomenon, or if they are found throughout the world? I'm particularly interested in whether they are found in Europe. Thanks for any input, Karl. Jeanne Jeanne Good question I must say. I may not speak for all of Europe, but it is my understanding that most all audible warning fog horns have been removed from the coastal waters off the British area of control. The present only need for such warning devices is for small boats in instances of heavy fog or storm blown water mist that may reach a height of around 3 meters or more. It is my understanding that and speaking only for Germany and Denmark {I have dual citizenship} light house are kept in operation with Nav positional aides such as radar/radio repeater stations/lights includant of use of laser beam. There is the issue of changing bottom depths and locations. It is most evident at harbour entrances and ship traffic. For as with storms, is with also wakes created by the passage of a ship and, prop wash that will effect sea and channel depth and location changes. It for this reason of stated speed limits for ships entering into harbour areas. For it is a constant work with harbour dredging and clean out of river bourne silt such as from the Elbe river as it flows past Hamburg and Cuxhaven {Cuxhaven was once owned by Hamburg as an auxiliary harbour and ship repair facility} Fog horn purpose is to mark dangerous points on coastal navigational hazards. For the most part, these have been only redundant for the reason of ship board navigational equipment such as: radar/seabed mapping programmes/echo locating warning systems. For this reason the fog horn has become redundant with exception of harbour entrance floating bouys with a bell warning to mark the navagational channel. The following url may be of some help, at least in the matter of light houses. www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/deu2b.htmI do hope with trust this may lend some help to your question of fog horns. Karl
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Post by pieter on Jun 12, 2017 1:19:13 GMT -7
Dear Jeanne,
Fog-horns are part of the Dutch North-sea coast like Lighthouses, and the sound of heavy tug boat and petroleum tankers, Container ships, fishingboats, commercial navy vessels and navy vessels. Growing up in Zeeland, one kilometer from the North-sea and the Westerschelde nearby fog-horns are sounds I am familiar with. They accompanied me through the first 20 years of my life in Vlissingen. Also the ships on the Westerschelde use mist-horns, often keeping Zeeland people awake because they can be very strong. The boats honk during heavy mist.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jun 12, 2017 1:28:20 GMT -7
In the darkness you hear the heavy boat honk, which they use as fog-horn. From the deep silence of the night such a boat honk is very powerful and deep. Listen from 2.28 you will hear the boat honk! That sound reverberates for many, many miles. Did you hear the echo?
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Post by pieter on Jun 12, 2017 1:34:32 GMT -7
Den Helder, North Holland
This sound is so familiar to me. Even though I don't like near the coast for 27 years now, I still remember it and feel it when I see these video's.
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Post by pieter on Jun 12, 2017 1:42:57 GMT -7
Even artists/musicians use misthorns.
What a powerful sound
It has a melancholic sound the fog-horn. Because often it sounds in less densly populated area's in old harbours, old coasts and blend with the fog and night. Maybe that feeling belongs to me, because the sound reminds me of my youth.
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Post by pieter on Jun 12, 2017 1:49:51 GMT -7
This video is beautiful.
The fog-horns sound similar to our European ones.
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jeanne
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 544
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Post by jeanne on Jun 12, 2017 16:03:51 GMT -7
Jeanne Good question I must say. I may not speak for all of Europe, but it is my understanding that most all audible warning fog horns have been removed from the coastal waters off the British area of control. The present only need for such warning devices is for small boats in instances of heavy fog or storm blown water mist that may reach a height of around 3 meters or more. It is my understanding that and speaking only for Germany and Denmark {I have dual citizenship} light house are kept in operation with Nav positional aides such as radar/radio repeater stations/lights includant of use of laser beam. There is the issue of changing bottom depths and locations. It is most evident at harbour entrances and ship traffic. For as with storms, is with also wakes created by the passage of a ship and, prop wash that will effect sea and channel depth and location changes. It for this reason of stated speed limits for ships entering into harbour areas. For it is a constant work with harbour dredging and clean out of river bourne silt such as from the Elbe river as it flows past Hamburg and Cuxhaven {Cuxhaven was once owned by Hamburg as an auxiliary harbour and ship repair facility} Fog horn purpose is to mark dangerous points on coastal navigational hazards. For the most part, these have been only redundant for the reason of ship board navigational equipment such as: radar/seabed mapping programmes/echo locating warning systems. For this reason the fog horn has become redundant with exception of harbour entrance floating bouys with a bell warning to mark the navagational channel. The following url may be of some help, at least in the matter of light houses. www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/deu2b.htmI do hope with trust this may lend some help to your question of fog horns. Karl Karl, Thanks for your input. It does make sense that the fog-horns of my youth are probably being replaced by other technologies. I'm sure the same thing is happening here in the U.S. And you did answer my question in the sense that now I know there were fog-horns in Europe at some point in time...that's what I was really wondering! Thank you! Jeanne
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jeanne
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 544
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Post by jeanne on Jun 12, 2017 16:12:43 GMT -7
This sound is so familiar to me. Even though I don't like near the coast for 27 years now, I still remember it and feel it when I see these video's. Pieter, Thank you for posting these videos. I think if one has spent their youth close to the ocean, the sound of a fog horn is something that stays strongly with them in memory. There is something very romantic and almost mysterious about the sound, perhaps because it is usually heard at night, or, of course, when the surrounding area is altered by a covering of concealing fog. Thanks for contributing to my knowledge of fog-horns in Europe! Jeanne p.s. The sounds on the videos you posted really, really created a sense of nostalgia in me...hearing them I am brought back to my teenage years when those sounds were a part of our lives. When I hear them now, they remind me of various events that were so important to me at the time..especially time spent with friends!
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Post by pieter on Jun 12, 2017 17:38:46 GMT -7
This sound is so familiar to me. Even though I don't like near the coast for 27 years now, I still remember it and feel it when I see these video's. Pieter, Thank you for posting these videos. I think if one has spent their youth close to the ocean, the sound of a fog horn is something that stays strongly with them in memory. There is something very romantic and almost mysterious about the sound, perhaps because it is usually heard at night, or, of course, when the surrounding area is altered by a covering of concealing fog. Thanks for contributing to my knowledge of fog-horns in Europe! Jeanne p.s. The sounds on the videos you posted really, really created a sense of nostalgia in me...hearing them I am brought back to my teenage years when those sounds were a part of our lives. When I hear them now, they remind me of various events that were so important to me at the time..especially time spent with friends! Jeanne, Our feeling is mutual. In the darkness of the night or very early morning when it was still dark, hearing these heavy fog-horns. It has the mystery of a good Dickens movie of a 19th century London cover in fog. Or The Hound of the Baskervilles by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. It is a deep long distance, mysterious, strange, and yet familiar sound. It was part of my daily life for 20 years. Like the long distance lights of the lighthouses on the dunes of the North sea coast of Walcheren Peninsula in Zeeland. And the sound of the wind, and the heavy drumming engines of the tugboats, large ferries (that went to England -UK-), petrol tankers and the fishing boats. These are flatlands, so the wind is always there. But with fog the air liked to have stopped and the wind was gone and the fog landscape created a Mysty almost farytale like other world. A ghost like landscape with vague forms and emptyness. The flatlands become more mysterious. No vision, but a mix of grey, anthracite blurry forms in the distance and lack of vision in general. The fog-horn gives some dimension to the heavy fog landscape. Jeanne, you must have had you version of the Ocean coast fog landscape. Cheers, Pieter
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jeanne
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 544
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Post by jeanne on Jun 13, 2017 12:14:16 GMT -7
. Jeanne, you must have had you version of the Ocean coast fog landscape Pieter, In my twenties, I worked (but did not live) in the port of Gloucester, which at the time was a busy fishing port with also international commerce involving rather large ships. During that time, my experience of fog-horns and the local fog landscape was very similar to the experience you described. In my teens, however, my family lived in a coastal town south of Boston. The harbor there was a small "downtown" area with an active fishing community and many small recreational boats moored in the inner harbor. The town contained many seasonal summer homes right along the ocean belonging to people who escaped from the heat of Boston during the summer. The rest of the town was year-round residential...that's the part of the town I lived in. It was almost a semi-rural area at that time and very peaceful and beautiful. We always felt safe being out around the town in the evenings and my friends and I spent many hours "hanging out down the harbor," as we used to say. We could walk on the beaches at night, sit on the jetties and watch the lighthouses blinking. Of course, when it was foggy we stayed away from the water, but the sounds of the fog-horns carried over the entire town. I can remember lying in bed at night with the windows open and hearing the comforting sound. Fond memories!
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Post by karl on Jun 13, 2017 16:55:34 GMT -7
Jeanne I do remember our conversations so long past and your work in Gloucester in the fishing industry. I only served in our fleet for one year after receiving my wheel House license with hydraulics and Diesel propulsion engineering. The ship I served on was the Altona {Ernst Koch, Hamburg}, she was a new ship of 1965 and a very modern stern trawler design at the time. There were 3 processing lines for: Cod-Codling-and Red Fish dependant upon catch location. The lines were automated requiring only for hand direction placing of the catch on the endless belt trays. These then were automatically deheaded/filleted, skinned by machine with the fillets then packed in aluminum trays and frozen in horizontal plate freezers. A daily catch could be processed at 26 tons total. Every three days, all operations were ceased for a complete tear down of all processing machines for foam dis-infection and cleaning. The decks all cleaned and dis-infected with inspection and recorded and placed on Capitain log. I was very fortunate to locate a photo on the internet as luck held out of the ship I served on. www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/231847/title/altona/cat/522Karl
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jeanne
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Posts: 544
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Post by jeanne on Jun 13, 2017 17:20:26 GMT -7
Jeanne I do remember our conversations so long past and your work in Gloucester in the fishing industry. I only served in our fleet for one year after receiving my wheel House license with hydraulics and Diesel propulsion engineering. Hi Karl, Yes, I well remember our conversations! I didn't realize that you only served in the fleet for a year... This sounds like the type of trawlers we serviced at that time. I probably told you that the two companies we were most involved with were Nordsee Hochseefischerei and Hanseatische Hochseefischerei. If I remember correctly, they were out of the ports of Cuxhaven and Bremerhaven. The M/V Poseidon, which they called a "hospital ship" sailed with the fishing fleets to assist them in various ways, most especially with medical assistance. The Poseidon called at Gloucester more frequently than the trawlers, coming into port to pick up items needed to keep the fleet productive. The trawlers came in for food supplies and fuel. That method of freezing the fish was referred to on our end as I.Q.F. ... individually quick frozen! The frozen fish was later loaded onto refrigerated cargo vessels (I believe while they were still at sea...but I could be wrong about that...did your ship off-load at sea?) which delivered it to Gloucester where the company I worked for unloaded it and saw that it was delivered to the proper trucks and freezers. Glad to hear they were so conscientious about cleanliness! Thanks for sharing the photo of the ship you served on! Jeanne
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Post by karl on Jun 18, 2017 20:29:56 GMT -7
Jeanne
Thank you for sharing the area you grew up in a coastal harbour town, it is the three of us to share a common bond of the sea.
Whilst fishing the Labrador strait, for economics as time and fuel is money, we would off load our catch onto tenders equipped to handle both frozen cargo and sacked dry fish product fertilizer at sea. This then was transported to and accounted for with a company in Gloucester {at the moment the company name escapes my memory}, upon received, they inturn transmitted a receipt to our ship and payment to our parent office in Hamburg.
We were licensed from Hamburg, but fueled, serviced and supplied in Cuxhaven as at that time, Cuxhaven still was under the Port of Hamburg authority.
Our fishing areas were of course the Labrador strait under Canadian authority, Iceland up to Svalbard under Norwegian authority.
At this time, our sea time by contract was between 45 and 60 days out. But by the forces of seaman communication, we learnt of some very wide ranged changes in the works, for one, the sea time was to be extended to between 60 to 80 days. With this, was leaked firmen information that for reason{s} of new catch quotas forth coming to limit species catch in the areas fished. This then was to be a near firmen cutting of ship numbers of large catch vessels such as our factory ship to be replaced with more cost effective vessels to meet the new up coming regulations.
It was of the above for my self not to renew my contract with a vessel I was not even sure would still be in the fleet in the coming years.
Withen a week after, I was then met by some recruiting officers that resulted in the career presently I am in.
I still miss the sea but not the first day out sea sickness. I found out later from one of the engineers I had worked with when issues were with one of the hydraulic systems I was licensed for. Apparently Capitain Ericksen {our Capitain} favoured me as a favourite of his, this an extreme suprise to me for I thought he hated me with his constant watching my every move whilst on the deck. It was then my impression he was looking for an excuse to give the owners evidence for my removal and I was absolutly bound to prove him wrong. For to be sure of no mistakes on my part, I worked over all the figures and charts before any fish run on my watch. In this manner to prove him wrong, was to know all the up coming depths and soundings that were charted to insure not grounding the net on bottom, but to keep proper depth for following the fish schools. For fish do not know they are being over taken and surrounded by the net until it begins the up ward and forward travel.
It seems that life tricks us some times whilst being young and unsure.
Karl
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jeanne
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Posts: 544
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Post by jeanne on Jun 19, 2017 9:45:05 GMT -7
Whilst fishing the Labrador strait, for economics as time and fuel is money, we would off load our catch onto tenders equipped to handle both frozen cargo and sacked dry fish product fertilizer at sea. This then was transported to and accounted for with a company in Gloucester {at the moment the company name escapes my memory}, upon received, they inturn transmitted a receipt to our ship and payment to our parent office in Hamburg. Karl, I was happy to hear that you did off load your cargo at sea...makes me feel good that my memory is still intact after all these years! The large fish processing companies in Gloucester at the time who received most of the incoming frozen fish were Gorton's and O'Donnell-Usen Fisheries. Do either of those names sound familiar? Most of the fish they received went right into cold storage at facilities right on the docks in Gloucester. Other companies would either send trucks to meet the ships as they discharged, or put their product into the dock-side freezers for later pick up. Gorton's is still in business and going strong (at least I think they are going strong...). I have a friend whose daughter actually works in the office at Gorton's now. I don't know about O'Donnell-Usen. They had facilities in other ports, I believe, so they too, may still be in business...I don't know. Did your vessel ever call at Gloucester while you were on board? Yes, it was the fishing quota regulations that eventually led to the demise of the company I worked for. Also, perhaps an even greater contributor to the company's downfall was the gaining popularity of container shipping, which was better for shippers as far as protecting their product and eliminating pilferage. The port of Gloucester could not handle the size of the container ships, so all the frozen fish commerce (and other products our company handled) shifted to the port of Boston. At the heyday of the shipping industry in Gloucester, we were handling not only the ships from Germany, but also Iceland, Norway, Greenland, Denmark, Canada, Korea, and Japan. The Japanese ships carried a cargo of frozen fish up to 5 millions pounds and at times we would have three of them in the harbor. It's incredible how such a thriving/booming business can fall prey to changing conditions like it did. The owner's son who is my age had hoped to live off that business for the rest of his life. The last I heard he was working as a ships' agent for the ships entering the port of Boston. Several years ago he attempted to bring small, coastal cruise ships to Gloucester for tourism, but after reading in the newspaper about one or two calls, I never heard any more about it, so I guess that failed, too. It appears life had other plans for you! Just goes to show that we never really know what another person is thinking! True words, Karl!
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