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Post by pieter on Sept 25, 2017 17:29:32 GMT -7
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Sept 26, 2017 4:57:20 GMT -7
I watched that video. What I don't understand is why UK people would discriminate against this lady for a Polish accent and not a South African accent.
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Post by pieter on Sept 26, 2017 6:09:08 GMT -7
Dear John, My sister is 'South-African', and she is married with a White South-African of the white English-South-African community (also called Anglo-Africans). His ancesters are partly British colonisers of South-Africa. He is not 100% of British descent, because his mother comes from an English speaking family of Afrikaander background. Since the majority of the English South Africans (The rooinek people in the words of the Afrikaanders - en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rooinek#Afrikaans -) didn't mix with the white Afrikaanders, you have seperate communities and thus the English South-Africans have genetic, ethnic, cultural, linguistic and historic ties with Great-Britain. They are like the Australians or British Americans ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Americans ) like Charlie Chaplin, Elizabeth Taylor, Gary Oldman, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Jerry Springer, Kate Winslet, Jacqueline Bisset, Keira Knightley and Cate Blanchett. The partner of my sisters husbands mother is a great British fellow. The White English South-Africans have a connection with Great-Britian (especially London, but also Machester, Oxford, Camebridge and Brighton. Many English South-Africans studied in the universities of London, Oxford or Camebridge and a lot of English South-Africans live and work in Great-Britain. Many white South Africans emigrated to Western countries over the past two decades, mainly to English-speaking countries such as the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United States, and with others settling in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, France, Argentina, Mexico, Israel and Brazil. However, the financial crisis has slowed down the rate of emigration and as of May 2014, Homecoming Revolution has estimated that around 340,000 white South Africans have returned in the last decade. The British diaspora in Africa is a population group broadly defined as English-speaking white Africans of mainly (but not only) British descent who live in or come from Sub-Saharan Africa. The majority live in South Africa and other Southern African countries including Zimbabwe, Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, Lesotho and Swaziland. There are also sizable numbers in Kenya, Nigeria and Ghana. Their first language is usually English. The majority of white Africans who speak English as a first language are of British and Irish descent. South African English (SAfrE, SAfrEng, SAE, en-ZA) is the set of English dialects spoken by native South Africans. There is considerable social and regional variation within South African English. Like Australian English, three variants (termed "The Great Trichotomy" by Roger Lass) are commonly identified within White South African English, spoken primarily by White South Africans: "Cultivated", closely approximating England's standard Received Pronunciation and associated with the upper class; "General", a social indicator of the middle class; and "Broad", associated with the working class, and closely approximating the second-language Afrikaner variety called Afrikaans English. White English South Africans could be compared with the New Zealanders and Australians, they are close to Great Britain as a member of the Commonwealth of Nations (formerly the British Commonwealth). All of them have their roots in British colonialism. Like there is a connection between Dutch, Flemish, Afrikaander, Surinamese and Dutch Caribbean (Dutch Dutch Antilles), the British English have a connection with Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South-Africans and Jamaicans. So, that is the reason the Polish lady wants to be seen as a English South African in Great-Britain. Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Sept 26, 2017 6:21:48 GMT -7
My niece in Capetown speaks excactly like this South-African teacher. I think the South-African English accent is quite charming or funny.
And this is funny
I have to confess that South-African English has some loan words, expressions and sayings I as a Dutchman, and British, American, Canadian, Australian and New Zealandish peoples wouldn't understand. Why, because that South-African English or Cape English has Afrikaander, Malayan and maybe some Bantu influences. That slang or regional English has geographic connotations or layers, levels or elements we don't have because we weren't born and raised in South-Africa. Also the Afrikaander language is very different than Dutch, although I can understand it nearly (maybe) 95% or 90%. In general understanding I can speak Dutch to an Afrikaans speaking South-African person and he or she can talk back in Afrikaans. For me South-Africa is an easy country in linguistic sense, because I can be bi-lingual there. You have that nowhere in Africa, except in South-Africa and Namibia.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by JustJohn or JJ on Sept 26, 2017 6:48:19 GMT -7
Dear John, So, that is the reason the Polish lady wants to be seen as a English South African in Great-Britain. Cheers, Pieter So it comes down to a racist point of view.
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Post by pieter on Sept 26, 2017 7:00:39 GMT -7
I do believe so. It has a anti-slavic, anti-Central/Eastern-European, anti-continental European touch to it. British nationalism was often based on the Islander mentality, of the Anglo-Saxon West-Germanic people of the British Isles. There is ofcourse a Cetic element in that in Wales, Scotland and Northern-Ireland. The Anglo-Saxons however have an old heritage of xenophobia and racism. From anti-semitism in the Middle-ages and our time, to rejection of Black Brits from Africa and the Caribbean, rejection of Hindu Indians, Sikh Indians, Muslim Indians, Pakistani, and later Polish, Ukrainain and other slavic and non-Slavic (Hungarian, Romanian, Baltic) people from Central- and Eastern-Europe.
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Post by pieter on Sept 26, 2017 7:11:56 GMT -7
John,
As a summer course English student in the summer of 1989 I witnessed some anti-continental European and anti-non-British discrimination in Oxford. As foreign students (Dutch, French, Italian, Spanish and Japanese) were were prohibited entry to Brirtish pubs there, while people of the same age who were English were allowed to enter. The Southern-Europeans amongst us and maybe myself too (I have maybe Polish looks) looked different than the Ginger (redhead) and blond British people there.
We then organised our own parties in the parks with booze (drinks) and food from the supermarket in parks of Oxford and at the river banks of the River Thames. Geographically many Brits outside the Cosmopolitan and international London have an Islander mentality. It's them, the Brits vs Europe and the world.
Many Brits still seem to believe that Britain rules the world.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by Jaga on Sept 29, 2017 15:58:18 GMT -7
I feel the same way like these people sometimes. I feel a bit better since yesterday somebody, who is very important at my work told me that in spite of the fact I have an accent, I am quite clear and easy to understand than many other people with accent.
At least Polish people look like Brits, but when I see some Asian people here in IF, for instance at yoga classes, my first instinct is to try to ask them where they come from... but I should not do that, since this is a form of discrimination.
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Post by karl on Sept 29, 2017 17:50:23 GMT -7
I feel the same way like these people sometimes. I feel a bit better since yesterday somebody, who is very important at my work told me that in spite of the fact I have an accent, I am quite clear and easy to understand than many other people with accent. At least Polish people look like Brits, but when I see some Asian people here in IF, for instance at yoga classes, my first instinct is to try to ask them where they come from... but I should not do that, since this is a form of discrimination. Jaga I have not met very many Polish people, and you are my best contact and friend, with this, I feel comfortable to ask as question: Do most Polish people speak quickly? Karl
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Post by pieter on Sept 29, 2017 18:41:25 GMT -7
Jaga,
I am glad that you colleague told you that in spite of the fact that you have an accent you are quite clear and easy to understand with your Polish accent. This gives you some confidence and belief in your self (self esteem). In your case you could do two things, follow the Polish lady in England and go to a Logopedist or accept who you are with your Polish accent, life and work experience in Poland and the USA and scientific, teaching and other work experience. Never give up, never feel down, always fight and get the best solution out of every challenge!
Never surrender and never let yourself being put down by anybody. In the Western world of competition, survival of the fittest on the Capitalist labour market you have to be aggressive, dominant, flexible and dynamic. That's how Capitalism works.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by Jaga on Sept 29, 2017 22:13:11 GMT -7
Pieter, yes, I agree. I was considering going to a logopedist. It can help, I listened to a couple of videos how to make yourself more presentable. It is not just about the accent but the melody of the language, speed how fast you talk etc.
+++n the Western world of competition, survival of the fittest on the Capitalist labour market you have to be aggressive, dominant, flexible and dynamic. +++
yes, this is true
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Post by Jaga on Sept 29, 2017 22:15:04 GMT -7
Karl, good question. Yes, I think we talk quickly in English. I don't really think we do it in Polish that much. It is interesting since Russian language is really slow, but the Russians I know here speak really fast English.
By the way, many people think I am German.
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Post by karl on Sept 30, 2017 10:46:33 GMT -7
Karl, good question. Yes, I think we talk quickly in English. I don't really think we do it in Polish that much. It is interesting since Russian language is really slow, but the Russians I know here speak really fast English. By the way, many people think I am German. Jaga Thank you for your informative answer, it makes me a little more smarter. Yes, if not to know otherwise, also I would think you are German also. It is difficult to say why from a prospective, it is just the feeling and your manner of reactions. I do hope with trust you are not offended by my answer.. Karl
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