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Post by pieter on Jun 10, 2019 13:55:38 GMT -7
J.J. and Pieter J.J. I admire your wish of the best in such formal cloths as tails and tie with the best drink in hand and your lovely wife at your side. I do admire for the reason this would have been in past very far above me and at present have little reason to do so. My currant uniform of the day is a wool tweed dress jacket, brown shoes, knit brown tie {for work} and what ever trousers appropriate for the day with a brown or black dress hat. More or less as envisioned as a professor. Pieter, I was smiling with you on your dancing experiences, yes, with the Tango also my self suffered greatly also. In Danmark in as well Germany {Cuxhaven} we did not have dance classes. There were weekend public dances at some of the bars, but then we as teens were of course excluded from them, but not so with a public dance hall. Alcoholic drinks were not allowed in side, but those that wished so, could drink out side. We teens were delighted with the public dances and this is where I learnt to dance from some of the ladies willing to risk being stepped on. But two of the ladies my age thought it was important to teach me to dance and so with this,was a good tool of socialization to meet other ladies by. Salsa in later life was taught to me by some Cuban friends whilst living in Hamburg. They were strict but I did learn well by them. There is differences though between latin style dancing form Cuban, Mexican, but found it the same with ladies in Central America with exception from Argentine/Uruguay and Brazil, we once exchanged with my experience with the two Brazilian young ladies {my age at that time} Eastra and Abreu in Uruguay {this the reason uncle August was so angry with me then} Teen age boys are not terribly smart... Karl Karl,
I wrote a lot about our former Dutch colony Suriname, but probably the ethnic, national, cultural, religious, racial, regional situation in Argentine/Uruguay and Brazil was completely different. The Spanish and Portuguese, Native American and Mestizo influence is larger in these countries. And for sure the Criollos's would have been more influential and dominant back then, as they are today. The present Brazillian president shal strenghen the power of white Brazillian people with Portuguese roots at the expense of the Black Brazillians, the Native Amerindian peoples of Brazil, and the Mestizos, Mulattos and Zambo's (everyone who isn't white). In Southern-America in contrast with Africa, the Middle east and Eastern-Asia the former colonisers maintained and strenghened their power through the 19th, 20th and 21th century via Financial-economical power, political power and military power. The landowners were and are close to the rightwing political parties and the armies, who often made Coup 'd etats, and ruled with the support of the white state bureaucratic, business (corporate) and thus high and middle class elites. Probably the native American, Black, Mestizo, Mulatto and Zambo people would support leftwing rebel movements and political parties from whom they trusted and hoped that land reforms, social policies and more equality would be implemented. And therefor Southern-American saw the follow up of rightwing authoritarian and leftwing totalitarian regimes. Rightwing and leftwing military dictatorships. The people continued with their lives. But many people disappeared, were kidnapped or simply killed by rightwing para military forces, leftwing rebels or the armies of Southern American countries in the time of Operation Condor (1968–1989) and before and after that.
Your Uruguay was in the region with a tradition of rightwing Spanish and Portuguese rich landowners vs the indigenous peoples (native Americans), the Black African slaves, people of mixed race (often not recognized and dus bastard people) and opposition from their own 'white' ranks of progressive, liberal and marxist people. The huge gaps between poor and white, different races, different countries and interests created huge tensions in Southern-America and Latin Central-America. Colonial wars, wars between countries, revolutions, coup 'd etats, civil wars, ethnic violence between groups, racism, xenophobia and discrimination. White people with Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, Greek, German, Austrian, Dutch, Belgian, English, Scottish, Irish, Swiss, Russian, Japanese, Lebanese, Sephardic jewish backgrounds formed the elite in these former Spanish and Portuguese colonies. In some area's where the Native Americans (the indigenous Amerindians) were still in charge due to dense forest lands (the Amazone rainforest), or highlands (mountainous regions which are hard to control due to the rough terrain) these native American tribes can be xenophobic, anti-white and anti-everything not native Indian, everybody who is not from their tribe. And seen the past this is quite understandable. So these Maya, the Mazatec people in your region, the Mexican Tarahumara, the Mexican Tepehuán, The Mam people in Central-America, the people of the Andean civilizations, the Aztec people, the Amazon tribes and other native Indian tribes inhabited their lands for thousands and hundreds of years. Often they had great cultures and civilizations. Sometimes with crual religious, tribal and mythological traditions and customs like human sacrifices and crual punishments and the destruction or elimination of rival tribes or empires. The invading Spanish conquistadors, the Portuguese, and Dutch, British and French colonials at the coasts of Southern-America and the Carribean proved to strong for the native Americans due to the European technology, strong ships, arms and organisation. But the roots of the native Indian (Amerindian Indigenous) civilizations have stayed. The world today knows the history of the Maya, Inca and Aztec civilizations and the proud North-American tribes on the Great Plains.
You have experienced that South-American culture, seen the different peoples, cultures and landscapes. From the old German Mennonites, Black Brazillians, local latino Cow Boys to the Native Indians of the region you stayed in Uruguay if any tribe or locals were left?
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by karl on Jun 10, 2019 16:32:52 GMT -7
Pieter It would appear you have touched upon some sacred cows at present with the subject of treatment of Indigenous peoples in Uruguay. For it seems the conscience is mightier then the sword. For in the early days of settlement and cattle as the valued industry, to protect this valued industry from being preyed upon by indigenous tribes. Whole sale killing was conducted upon such tribes as the Charrua as a viable solution. For in this early days, such tribes were not considered as human beings, but wild things of interference. Now at present, the conscience of the country is at hand to consider these indigenous people as an heritage of the country. elpais.com/elpais/2017/11/06/inenglish/1509969553_044435.htmlTimes change and as so, so goes the respective national conscience. Karl
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Post by pieter on Jun 10, 2019 22:05:43 GMT -7
You're welcome John.
The music of Borodin reminds me of my parents household. They often watched and listened to the classical music tv chanals, and on one of them are often Russian opera's. And they still do today. Alexander Borodin was and is one of the composers they also played and play at home in my youth and today. Classical music radio, probably longplay records and every now and than on tv during a classical concert Alexander Borodin was part of that European classical music world of theirs and thus of mine. I certainly liked and like Russian opera's from different Russian composers. But Borodin remains special. My parents were/are not of the Pop music generation, so classical music was part of my musical upbringing, and also plays a part in my Dutch family. My father sister's family, the husband and sons of my aunt were involved in classical music. 2 sons play classical instruments cello and the Western concert flute. And the cousin who plays the Western concert flute can also play Hungarian Gypsy music on a violin and he studied sound engineering next to classical music and managed his own professional classical music record label Ottavo ( www.ottavo.nl/ ). This cousin got lessons from famous Hungarian Gypsy musician in Budapest in Hungary, and therefor could play with Gypsy musicians like he was a Gypsy musician himself. A serious classical music guy who was and is a trained sound man (producer and recorder of classical music cd's and classical music records) and who loves to play classical music and teach music to Dutch children and teenagers as a music teacher, he also loves to play Gypsy music every now and than. And the classical music world is as different than Gypsy music than like for instance Folk Music and Detroit techno music. 2 different genre's. But Hungarian Gypsy music has also a classical music training element in it. And some classical composers like Franz Liszt (2 October 1811 – 31 July 1886) used Gypsy influences in his Hungarian classical music compositions.
Classical music was never far away in my life, even though I am of the Pop generation myself, an old rocker, disco and electronic music lover. But music is music and if music is good it doesn't matter if it is classical music, folk music, country and western, and hillbilly music, Jazz, Blues, rhythm and blues, Rock 'n Roll, soul, disco, pop music, rock music, hard rock, symphonic rock, New Wave, Gypsy music, Schlager music, singer song writer, Musical music, tribal music or street music of street musicians. If it is good it is good, if it is bad it is bad and if it is mediocre it is mediocre. Fact is that there is a lot of good music around in our world and that music has enriched our lives.
The world is a better place due to music and music is universal and has no borders, no limits and no political aims (in most cases). Music makes the people come together is the title of one of Madonna's songs. She is right.Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jun 11, 2019 10:35:42 GMT -7
Pieter It would appear you have touched upon some sacred cows at present with the subject of treatment of Indigenous peoples in Uruguay. For it seems the conscience is mightier then the sword. For in the early days of settlement and cattle as the valued industry, to protect this valued industry from being preyed upon by indigenous tribes. Whole sale killing was conducted upon such tribes as the Charrua as a viable solution. For in this early days, such tribes were not considered as human beings, but wild things of interference. Now at present, the conscience of the country is at hand to consider these indigenous people as an heritage of the country. elpais.com/elpais/2017/11/06/inenglish/1509969553_044435.htmlTimes change and as so, so goes the respective national conscience. Karl Karl, Thank you for your reply. it is good that there is conciousness about the past of the indigenous people of a country and in the same time awareness about a shared past and the fact that a country has multi-ethnic layers, multi-ethnic history and that a country always changes and thus also the relations between people. I hope that in the future from a humanistic sense the mutual respect and interest between the various ethnic communities in Uruguay and other Southern-American, Latin-American and Mexican countries and states will change. Like they have changed in Europe and Northern-America through the centuries and the last decaces (late 20th century and early 21th century). Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Sept 13, 2020 17:56:12 GMT -7
John, I am stacked in the 80s. When I go with Ela my daughter in a car and she needs to listen to her music, I just don't understand her music at all. Share some of your music with us. Well, you folks have me in a barrel. I am of the age of 'Alan Freed' and do remember the music of the time. But, it appears, not of your time.
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Post by pieter on Sept 13, 2020 23:52:47 GMT -7
I agree with Jaga. Share some more of your music with us John.
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Post by karl on Sept 14, 2020 18:49:58 GMT -7
Yes, John {J.J.} has excellent taste in music, this I do totally agree. My self,,I tend to believe most know my taste in music which is very varied, dependant more or less on mood and disposition. Perhaps this a reason for some time past, a room mate left whilst my self at work, his reason to the department, was my taste of music was what he hated, so be it, his cooking was worse then my own.
The following is one I do admire almost as much to: Enchanted Evening.
It is not that I admire only music of the late twenties and thirties, but it is the story that is told with music. With this, is the melody and accompaniment that is in the background, but yet present self to the person singing.
The classics my self at one time admired very much, but in time as few grey hairs begin to emerge, some how my interest waned to different manners of music.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Sept 15, 2020 9:03:22 GMT -7
What is John's response to that? Jaga, Karl and Pieter? John must be of the time of old school Jazz, bepob, Folk music (Woody Guthrie), Country & Western Music (Bluegrass) the great musicians Bill Monroe, Hank Williams, Dolly Parton and Willie Nelson, Blues, Rhythm and blues, Rock 'n Roll, Soul, Amedrican disco music and Rock music. What is the musical taste of our ole Marine. Wikipedia writers the following about the music of John's, Jeanne's, Kaima's, Jaga's, Ludwiks, Erics and my American cousins (Eve and Mary) great nation (also the nation of Karl's wife and children I presume): " The music of the United States can be characterized by the use of syncopation and asymmetrical rhythms, long, irregular melodies, which are said to "reflect the wide open geography of (the American landscape)" and the "sense of personal freedom characteristic of American life". Some distinct aspects of American music, like the call-and-response format, are derived from African techniques and instruments.
Throughout the later part of American history, and into modern times, the relationship between American and European music has been a discussed topic among scholars of American music. Some have urged for the adoption of more purely European techniques and styles, which are sometimes perceived as more refined or elegant, while others have pushed for a sense of musical nationalism that celebrates distinctively American styles. Modern classical music scholar John Warthen Struble has contrasted American and European, concluding that the music of the United States is inherently distinct because the United States has not had centuries of musical evolution as a nation. Instead, the music of the United States is that of dozens or hundreds of indigenous and immigrant groups, all of which developed largely in regional isolation until the American Civil War, when people from across the country were brought together in army units, trading musical styles and practices. Struble deemed the ballads of the Civil War "the first American folk music with discernible features that can be considered unique to America: the first 'American' sounding music, as distinct from any regional style derived from another country."
The Civil War, and the period following it, saw a general flowering of American art, literature and music. Amateur musical ensembles of this era can be seen as the birth of American popular music. Music author David Ewen describes these early amateur bands as combining "the depth and drama of the classics with undemanding technique, eschewing complexity in favor of direct expression. If it was vocal music, the words would be in English, despite the snobs who declared English an unsingable language. In a way, it was part of the entire awakening of America that happened after the Civil War, a time in which American painters, writers, and 'serious' composers addressed specifically American themes." During this period the roots of blues, gospel, jazz, and country music took shape; in the 20th century, these became the core of American popular music, which further evolved into the styles like rhythm and blues, rock and roll, and hip hop music."
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Post by kaima on Sept 15, 2020 9:41:41 GMT -7
I agree with Jaga. Share some more of your music with us John. John and I are the same generation, but I cannot claim my tastes and interests paralleled that of the general public. From the parents' generation it was Big Band and polkas on Sundays on the ethnic radio programs, and the lines of distinction between the ethnicities were noted but did not hinder enjoying their style of polka. With an older sister, the first singer I remember her being gaga over was Johnny Ray & Little Cloud that Cried, and it was the whole nation and not just young kids that enjoyed Theresa Brewer and How Much is that Puppy in the Window. Frank Sinatra was an old man in his thirties or forties by then, firmly locked in the parents' generation. At the dawn of rock & roll there was not a firm line between country & western and rock and roll and blues. It seemed rock and roll gelled from elements of all. Johnny Cash was originally a cross-over singer who eventually went with the hillbilly or country music, and back then hillbilly or country was distinct from western. When Folk Music developed in the late 50's and early 60's, I set my music anchors and was greatly disappointed when music moved on to new genre's after some years. In composing this, I will call myself an anti-Beetle. They came in to America while I was finishing high school, as I remember, and I was turned off by the propaganda that preceded them. OK, call it advertising if you will, but about 6 months before they came to America we started to get teasers on the radio; in the middle of regular programming, there was inserted the lone word "beetles", nothing more. No commentary of discussion by the radio personalities or speakers on what or why that one word appeared. Then in a week or two, "what is a beetle?", and nothing more. Eventually it moved on to "The Beetles are coming", and other similar phrases, and news of this British group started to be presented and discussed. So the American teens were well prepared for their arrival with all of this artificial propaganda. What bothered me most about the arrival of the Beatles is their sudden domination of the music airwaves. We had an immensely broad selection offering of bands and varieties of music from many, many groups, and all of a sudden 70% of that disappeared and was replaced by homogenized Beatles. I hated it, I hated the loss of the wonderful music and variety, and the stinking sameness of these guys. It took me 15 years to where I could listen to them more than seldom and enjoy them. Yet today there is no measure or sense among the people as to the loss of the richness in music that they cost the world. It was a huge setback for music. Jumping to today, the current Rap music could have been great for me if it had caught me at the right age. I always had a talent for alliteration and poor, off the cuff rhyming, and once I realized that that is the basis of Rap music, I could appreciate it, though I cannot enjoy the sound. What I did succeed in doing is to work up an appreciation of classical music. I wish also that I had studied music formally, at least to form a foundation to build upon. In the last 20 years I find music is much less a part of my life. I have my favorites, and some that accompany me on some of the long drives that I make from one home to another, and happily YouTube videos let me now and then go in to hear oldies that I have forgotten existed. The newer groups that have come in the decades since then I have ignored to a large degree, not bothering to get to know the bands and singers of my nieces' generation, and only getting to know, for example, Queen, after years of hearing their music and realizing "Hey, I like a bunch of their songs. Who are they?" Of course by then they were past their height of popularity and were in their sustained productivity mode, and it became interesting to read the hate commentaries by people who were offended by homosexual talent. My attitude is that someone's sexuality is not of interest to me unless I am shopping for a partner. So we are in an era when my music and following decades of music are 'oldies', and I can find comfortable stations on the radio to listen to when I wish. Kai
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Post by kaima on Sept 15, 2020 9:50:55 GMT -7
My version of electronic music !!!!! This cover view of the American Flag short shorts brings to mind the quandary that fanatics who want to Protect the Flag have: do you outlaw such shorts, do you outlaw flag-themed bikinis on hot babes? Do you outlaw them on only overweight women? What does 'abuse of the flag' amount to, where does it begin and end? So I laugh at these fanatics. I have more of a British attitude toward the flag. It is to be respected, but it is just a symbol. It is the country that is to be fought to preserve, not this symbol in its perishable mansifestation.
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Post by pieter on Sept 15, 2020 13:56:03 GMT -7
For John
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Post by pieter on Sept 15, 2020 13:59:30 GMT -7
John for yoy this video. At his advanced age my dad has become an admirer of Andre Rieu. For the man as musician and entrepreneur who traveled the world with his orchestra.
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Post by pieter on Sept 15, 2020 14:10:51 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Sept 15, 2020 14:12:48 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Sept 15, 2020 14:21:29 GMT -7
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