Post by pieter on Sept 10, 2019 17:08:33 GMT -7
Karl
You don;t have to be a supporter, spokesperson, advocate or campaigner for Gay and transgender people to recognise their right to exist, freedom, security and protection against crime and harassment. In a Free and Democratic society every person needs to be protected by the Rechtstaat, law (legislation), constitution, Trias politica (Separation of powers) and the decent and ethical rule that minorities and minority positions should be protected by the majority. Like you justly said; "These people are human beings and deserve to be treated as human beings."
We should not tolerate or respect people who treat them badly because some people with traditional, arch conservative or nationalist opinions, feelings and emotions want to suppress, prohibit or block Gay and Transgenders from having a public life, identity and existence as human beings, citizens and fellow compatriots. People have the right to oppose, resist or condemn homosexuality, Lesbianism, Bi-sexuality, Binary people, Queers and Transgenders, but they don't have the right to deny them to have an existence, to harm them in a physical or mental way, nor harass them or hinder them in a threatening way.
For the rest they are free in a democracy and free society to vote for Anti-Gay parties, condemn the Gay marriage, have peaceful counter demonstrations at Gay Pride parades and go into discussion with LGBT people or organisations.
I aggree with you that what people do behind closed doors in the bedroom is their own business. I don't want to be confronted in public with sexual or exhibitionist behavoir of other people, whether it is in a hetrosexual, homosexual, bisexual or other way. You have norms for decency, so no pornographic, nude or vulgar behavior in public. I can be irritated about straight people too who conduct in an indecent manner.
Transgender and gay people are a reality in my life in Arnhem and Amsterdam, because there are colleagues and friends who are like that or people I have to deal with professionaly. I know a transgender lawjer in Arnhem who fights for Transgender rights and a Transgender spokesperson of the Muncipality city administration. Our contact is stricly professional in the sense that my relationship with them is in the field of Press/media work. I have Gay colleagues and friends. They are not different than my straight friends. Being straight (hetrosexual) in practice means than the majority of my friends is straight also. I have to be honest about that, that is a fact of life. As a single straight man I don't go to Gay bars, ebcause the chance that I find a suitable partner there is close to Zero. So, you won't find me there. But every now and then, but very rare cases you can find me in a Gay bar for a holiday of a colleague or a friend. To be honest, in that case I enter their world, and I like that for the joy, entertainment and fun of it. But honestly, I like to go with girlfiends to bars, café's and restaurants that are less camp, les theatrical and less queer.
I can tell you that some of my Gay friends don'tlike the Gay subculture, the Gay kitsch and glitter (Bling Bling), camp, drag queens, and ferry behavior of many effeminate androgynous fellow Gay men. They prefer to go to neutral or Straight (hetrosexual) pubs, clubs or restaurants, because they want to be anonymous, normal and don't want to be confronted all the time with the Gay subculture and hunting fellow Gays. They also like to hang out with straight friends at parties and home gatherings. It is not about sexuality or dating, but about being normal. Again, you have all kind of Gay, Lesbian, transgender, Bisexual, binary, queer, hetrosexual and other people. I respect people how they are as long as they don't invade my private space.
Seattle's political culture is very liberal and progressive for the United States, with over 80% of the population voting for the Democratic Party. Maybe that liberal and progressive culture of that city ads to the fact that the majority of gays, cross dressers and transgenders you have met were in the Seattle area.
Seattle is considered the home of grunge music, having produced artists such as Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, and Mudhoney, all of whom reached international audiences in the early 1990s. The city is also home to such varied artists as avant-garde jazz musicians Bill Frisell and Wayne Horvitz, hot jazz musician Glenn Crytzer, hip hop artists Sir Mix-a-Lot, Macklemore, Blue Scholars, and Shabazz Palaces, smooth jazz saxophonist Kenny G, classic rock staples Heart and Queensrÿche, and alternative rock bands such as Foo Fighters, Harvey Danger, The Presidents of the United States of America, The Posies, Modest Mouse, Band of Horses, Death Cab for Cutie, and Fleet Foxes. Rock musicians such as Jimi Hendrix, Duff McKagan, and Nikki Sixx spent their formative years in Seattle.
The Seattle-based Sub Pop record company continues to be one of the world's best-known independent/alternative music labels.
The altnernative Rock scene isn't particular Gay. The cool Rock star has a straight image of Sex (women, groupies), Drugs and Rock 'n Roll.
Karl, these Ford/Mercury dealers were just good professional car dealers. If they hadn't been good car dealers you wouldn't have had rented that Ford and Mercury at their dealership. There is often the cliché of the husband and wife with a masculine man and a feminine man, but often there are 2 masculine guys or 2 feminine guys who form a Gay couple. It is good that you could be very good friends with them and I still rent cars from them.
Gay men are men like straight guys and they love cars, the mechanics of it, the motorpower, the form of cars, specific brands and etc. Some Gays are part of a Gay car club, I know from Dutch Gays, other Gays are part of a general Car club, because they don't want to be part of a Gay car club. They like cars and not especially 'Gay' Car clubs. It is a fairly recent development than certain Gays reject the Gay label and segregted Gay car clubs, Gay bars or Gay sport clubs. It to unsettles them that they should be in a special Gay club, Gay foundation or Gay scene. They reject that, and that is the nature of Modern emancipated Gays. Some like the Gay subculture, others don't and love to hang out with hetrosexual family, friends and colleagues. Due to the tolerant and liberal nature of the Netherlands Straight people, homosexuals and bisexuals can hang around together or go to bars or discitheques. But they shouldn't encounter Gay bashers, Gay haters or intolerant people, because the Netherlans is part of the world and we have Homophobic people and Gay bashers here also.
Cheers,
Pieter
You don;t have to be a supporter, spokesperson, advocate or campaigner for Gay and transgender people to recognise their right to exist, freedom, security and protection against crime and harassment. In a Free and Democratic society every person needs to be protected by the Rechtstaat, law (legislation), constitution, Trias politica (Separation of powers) and the decent and ethical rule that minorities and minority positions should be protected by the majority. Like you justly said; "These people are human beings and deserve to be treated as human beings."
We should not tolerate or respect people who treat them badly because some people with traditional, arch conservative or nationalist opinions, feelings and emotions want to suppress, prohibit or block Gay and Transgenders from having a public life, identity and existence as human beings, citizens and fellow compatriots. People have the right to oppose, resist or condemn homosexuality, Lesbianism, Bi-sexuality, Binary people, Queers and Transgenders, but they don't have the right to deny them to have an existence, to harm them in a physical or mental way, nor harass them or hinder them in a threatening way.
For the rest they are free in a democracy and free society to vote for Anti-Gay parties, condemn the Gay marriage, have peaceful counter demonstrations at Gay Pride parades and go into discussion with LGBT people or organisations.
I aggree with you that what people do behind closed doors in the bedroom is their own business. I don't want to be confronted in public with sexual or exhibitionist behavoir of other people, whether it is in a hetrosexual, homosexual, bisexual or other way. You have norms for decency, so no pornographic, nude or vulgar behavior in public. I can be irritated about straight people too who conduct in an indecent manner.
Transgender and gay people are a reality in my life in Arnhem and Amsterdam, because there are colleagues and friends who are like that or people I have to deal with professionaly. I know a transgender lawjer in Arnhem who fights for Transgender rights and a Transgender spokesperson of the Muncipality city administration. Our contact is stricly professional in the sense that my relationship with them is in the field of Press/media work. I have Gay colleagues and friends. They are not different than my straight friends. Being straight (hetrosexual) in practice means than the majority of my friends is straight also. I have to be honest about that, that is a fact of life. As a single straight man I don't go to Gay bars, ebcause the chance that I find a suitable partner there is close to Zero. So, you won't find me there. But every now and then, but very rare cases you can find me in a Gay bar for a holiday of a colleague or a friend. To be honest, in that case I enter their world, and I like that for the joy, entertainment and fun of it. But honestly, I like to go with girlfiends to bars, café's and restaurants that are less camp, les theatrical and less queer.
I can tell you that some of my Gay friends don'tlike the Gay subculture, the Gay kitsch and glitter (Bling Bling), camp, drag queens, and ferry behavior of many effeminate androgynous fellow Gay men. They prefer to go to neutral or Straight (hetrosexual) pubs, clubs or restaurants, because they want to be anonymous, normal and don't want to be confronted all the time with the Gay subculture and hunting fellow Gays. They also like to hang out with straight friends at parties and home gatherings. It is not about sexuality or dating, but about being normal. Again, you have all kind of Gay, Lesbian, transgender, Bisexual, binary, queer, hetrosexual and other people. I respect people how they are as long as they don't invade my private space.
Seattle's political culture is very liberal and progressive for the United States, with over 80% of the population voting for the Democratic Party. Maybe that liberal and progressive culture of that city ads to the fact that the majority of gays, cross dressers and transgenders you have met were in the Seattle area.
Seattle is considered the home of grunge music, having produced artists such as Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, and Mudhoney, all of whom reached international audiences in the early 1990s. The city is also home to such varied artists as avant-garde jazz musicians Bill Frisell and Wayne Horvitz, hot jazz musician Glenn Crytzer, hip hop artists Sir Mix-a-Lot, Macklemore, Blue Scholars, and Shabazz Palaces, smooth jazz saxophonist Kenny G, classic rock staples Heart and Queensrÿche, and alternative rock bands such as Foo Fighters, Harvey Danger, The Presidents of the United States of America, The Posies, Modest Mouse, Band of Horses, Death Cab for Cutie, and Fleet Foxes. Rock musicians such as Jimi Hendrix, Duff McKagan, and Nikki Sixx spent their formative years in Seattle.
The Seattle-based Sub Pop record company continues to be one of the world's best-known independent/alternative music labels.
The altnernative Rock scene isn't particular Gay. The cool Rock star has a straight image of Sex (women, groupies), Drugs and Rock 'n Roll.
Karl, these Ford/Mercury dealers were just good professional car dealers. If they hadn't been good car dealers you wouldn't have had rented that Ford and Mercury at their dealership. There is often the cliché of the husband and wife with a masculine man and a feminine man, but often there are 2 masculine guys or 2 feminine guys who form a Gay couple. It is good that you could be very good friends with them and I still rent cars from them.
Gay men are men like straight guys and they love cars, the mechanics of it, the motorpower, the form of cars, specific brands and etc. Some Gays are part of a Gay car club, I know from Dutch Gays, other Gays are part of a general Car club, because they don't want to be part of a Gay car club. They like cars and not especially 'Gay' Car clubs. It is a fairly recent development than certain Gays reject the Gay label and segregted Gay car clubs, Gay bars or Gay sport clubs. It to unsettles them that they should be in a special Gay club, Gay foundation or Gay scene. They reject that, and that is the nature of Modern emancipated Gays. Some like the Gay subculture, others don't and love to hang out with hetrosexual family, friends and colleagues. Due to the tolerant and liberal nature of the Netherlands Straight people, homosexuals and bisexuals can hang around together or go to bars or discitheques. But they shouldn't encounter Gay bashers, Gay haters or intolerant people, because the Netherlans is part of the world and we have Homophobic people and Gay bashers here also.
Cheers,
Pieter