The Specter of "homo sovieticus."

[troubledgoodangel]

I do not know if this story is disturbing or not. It is disturbing for me as a Pole. Like the legendary yeti, the Abominable Snowman, the ghost of the homo sovieticus continues to linger among the population. After fifty years outside Poland, I encounter this bogeyman daily in the streets, in the church confessionals, and in the stores (yes, the Church is not immune)! To avoid "it," people seldom communicate with each other, and simple things like striking a conversation in a tramway are close to unthinkable in Cracow. The rule is simple, you ask for "it," and you will get "it"! What you get, is men and women enslaved with vices, suspicion of strangers, inability to talk freely! It's all about workable day-to-day concepts, the way they stand in our mind. There are many such vital concepts, but I will sum them all up under the famous Polish pre-World War II slogan, "Bóg, honor, Ojczyzna." The homo sovieticus also had this motto and these concepts, but his understanding of them wasn't the same. The homo sovieticus is still attached to his many idols, above all, the notion that "the system is always good, and the apparatchik is always the law." Many millions of Poles "struggled for freedom " under Communism, but very few, Card. Stefan Wyszyñski, Jerzy Popie³uszko, Lech Wa³êsa, understood the meaning of what they were striving for! Millions saw freedom as a freedom from capitalism. Millions equated God with Socialism and the State. Honor and slave labor were almost synonymous. Freedom, says John Paul II in Veritatis splendor, "is a responsible acting and authentic patriotic concern, zgodny z prawd¹ , która oœwieca cz³owieka i kszta³tuje wolnoœc, [...] freedom allows a life in truth and a orientation toward goodness." Many scholars stipulate that several generations will need to elapse before the dependency on Communism disappears entirely, and the abominable homo sovieticus vanishes entirely from the Polish psyche. Poland today needs spiritual directors, pedagogues, and teachers who think in categories of true freedom, honor, and dignity of all human beings!

[Pawian]

troubledgoodangel said:

I do not know if this story is disturbing or not. It is disturbing for me as a Pole. Like the legendary yeti, the Abominable Snowman, the ghost of the homo sovieticus continues to linger among the population. After fifty years outside Poland, I encounter this bogeyman daily in the streets, in the church confessionals, and in the stores (yes, the Church is not immune)! To avoid "it," people seldom communicate with each other, and simple things like striking a conversation in a tramway are close to unthinkable in Cracow.

I don`t think that being reticent and unwilling to speak to unknown people on the tram or bus is a symbol of homo sovieticus attitude.

It is just a symbol of Polish individualism. Poles prefer to be left alone to their thoughts when travelling on means of public transport. They think about their work, family, friends. They have problems, big or small.

Besides, Poles are not so forward as to strike a conversation with a stranger so easily. They don`t want to disturb anybody and be disturbed either. They will always help you when asked but when approached by a stranger aiming at discussion, they will retreat politely.

The rule is simple, you ask for "it," and you will get "it"! What you get, is men and women enslaved with vices, suspicion of strangers, inability to talk freely!

I saw it in America. The fear of strangers. Travelling on the subway people avoid contact, they avert their eyes (one of the rules of survival in the city jungle, don`t look into the eyes!), read some books or posters.

In Krakow it isn`t the fear of strangers yet, I would rather call it the preoccupation with your own problems. Poles are pessimists in general, they worry constantly, so they are tense all the time, even on the bus.
It has little to do with home sovieticus.

[troubledgoodangel]

I wish I could share your optimism, but my experiences are quite different. There are good Poles and bad Poles, and let's leave it at that. The good Poles do not fear to speak about God, especially when they are religious, and their charism is charity, mercy, and love. They do not fear strangers, and they enjoy good conversation. The bad Poles, though, are the opposite. The last nun I asked about the meaning of Christian love, in Cracow, had not responded a single word, which was rude by every standard! The last Sister of Mercy, whom I asked at £agiewniki about the meaning of mercy, got greatly annoyed and hostile. I found this attitude "unmerciful" and inconsistent with her charism! And I can assure you that these are not exceptions, but the norm. Neither can I accept your optimism on "Poles willing to help, when asked." This is an absolute oxymoron and untruth. Today every person in Poland is for himself! There is plenty of "help," yes, but it is a Gypsy help. In other words, it is always help that is unwanted and unasked for, a help whose only motive is to control and to lower the status of the other person ... and to get kicks from it! I got similar 'help" in Rome, one time, when a Gypsy tried "to park my car" at the train station of Santa Palomba. Poles are quick learners. Today we see more and more of this unasked for help! But, alas, if someone is really in need, and asks for something! In short, today, after Communism, the titles do not count. The worst churl and drunkard is respected if he or she owns property. I write it so that Americans know what to expect!

[Pawian]

troubledgoodangel said:

I wish I could share your optimism, but my experiences are quite different. There are good Poles and bad Poles, and let's leave it at that. The good Poles do not fear to speak about God, especially when they are religious, and their charism is charity, mercy, and love. They do not fear strangers, and they enjoy good conversation. The bad Poles, though, are the opposite.

It means I am a bad Pole because I would never talk about God in the street or on the bus with a stranger. It is such an intimate and personal matter that discussing it in such places sounds like blasphemy to me.

Besides, what the sense of discussion? Either someone believes in God or not. I have my opinion, somebody has his/her own opinion. If we both believe in God, that`s good, there is no need to discuss anything. If one side doesn`t believe, is it possible to persuade him/her to start believing?

The last nun I asked about the meaning of Christian love, in Cracow, had not responded a single word, which was rude by every standard! The last Sister of Mercy, whom I asked at £agiewniki about the meaning of mercy, got greatly annoyed and hostile.

Why do you approach nuns only? They are delicate females, they might be scared of you. Go and talk to a priest.

Neither can I accept your optimism on "Poles willing to help, when asked." This is an absolute oxymoron and untruth. Today every person in Poland is for himself! There is plenty of "help," yes, but it is a Gypsy help.

Do mean real Gypsies who can be obtrusive sometimes? They must be dealt with decisively: "No, thank you, I don`t need any of this stuff." That`s all.
You must immediately turn down stupid offers, otherwise you risk problems.

Poles are quick learners. Today we see more and more of this unasked for help!

I don`t think so. There have always been smart guys ready to take you for a ride in the urban jungle. One has to learn how to defend and not allow them to trick you. I think it is a typical danger in big cities, not only in Poland but everywhere. I met such helpful guys in New York too.

But, alas, if someone is really in need, and asks for something!

Like what, for example?

In short, today, after Communism, the titles do not count. The worst churl and drunkard is respected if he or she owns property. I write it so that Americans know what to expect!

I don`t think that Americans can still be surprised by anything. Remember that the USA is the most predatory state in the world. hahahahaha

[troubledgoodangel]

I am in the midst of changing apartments, but I will answer your comment briefly, point per point. (1) You are right that "people avoiding conversation" has little to do with the homo sovieticus syndrom. I had in mind the general way in which post-Communist people react to situations. Ex: in Cracow, police officers refuse to respond if someone calls you names on the street. As a free man, I consider this to be enough offense to involve the authorities. Under Communism, however, where these policemen worked, there was such lack of respect for the individual, that cursing one another was normal ... and this is why they see no reason to respond. Now to your points. (1) It's normal for people to be different. You consider "a blasphemy to talk about God to strangers." I on my part, as a theologian and someone who has given his life to God entirely, speak of nothing else with such pleasure as I speak about God! I sleep with the statue of God, write my articles and dissertation about God, and simply cannot imagine not thinking about God. I do not mean that you are a bad Pole because you aren't like me! In general, I consider Poles to be deeply religious, always ready to speak about the Black Madonna and Jesus. There are however many Poles who are atheist, and even in my hotel there is not a single cross. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the owners are bad Poles (as a matter of fact, yesterday I asked them if they were Jews, and they told that no, that "they made a conscious decision not to aggravate the young people." I told them that this is a fatal mistake, and that was the end of the conversation. I do correct you: I meant primarily Sisters and priests, not "strangers on the bus"! I agree that it would be unwise to just talk to anyone, at the risk of "throwing the pearls to the swine." But Priests and Nuns are meant to enlighten the rest of us, and they by all means should not be afraid of such conversations! (2) Why do I approach nuns? As someone who is a licenced Pontifical Spiritual Director, I not only have a duty to counsel nuns (with a local Bishop's approval), but I have spent five and a half years sitting in the same classrooms with nuns from 110 different countries at the Angelicum. This is why conversations with them come very natural. Besides, since their charism is "mercy," if we cannot get from them what mercy means, we shall never get it elsewhere. (3) I fully agree with you as far as the need to be dismissive with Gypsies. I had my own share of problems with them in Rome, including a 7,000 dollars stolen on a train to Milan. What I had in mind, though, is a Gypsy-like attitude of many Poles towards visitors. Ex: when you rent an apartment, the landlady may bring a vendor of expensive 2,000 złoty bed sheets, to test if you are a "free spender," that means, to test if you are a wealthy American. I simply find this intrusive. (3) As far as "unasked for help," it is very annoying to me. Each day I drive to outside Cracow, I have to argue with people washing my windshield by force. I don't like that. If they ask, I may say yes. But I am offended when they do it against my will. Another thing is "forced parking help." I do not accept people teaching me how to drive. But it happens too often in Cracow. The worst thing of course is "breaking into conversation." I hate that! You ask some lady for directions, and the next person, usually a male, breaks into conversation and answers "for her." This is something Poles have learned from the Italians, who do it as part of their culture, but is extremely intrusive and impolite. I had many arguments on this with the Italians. (4) But alas if someone really asks for help...here I mean a specific question like asking for directions. Let me preface the answer to this by mentioning that, today, it was reported that tourism has fallen in Paris due to the fact that the French are the rudest people in Europe when dealing with visitors, and that the French government is desperately appealing for change in culture. It turns out that the Poles, especially the young, are quickly learning from the French the bad manners! Ex: when I got lost in Mulhouse, France at night, I asked two Algerian-looking young men for directions. It was midnight, in a dark alley, and I knew no French. Their response was nauseating. They began mambling something unintelligible, shooting their arms in different directions, yelling and jumping on their feet as they spoke. I walked away. Yesterday, near Cracov, I got an identical response from two young men when I asked for an address at night. It was as if I were transported to France! And (5) my worst disillusionment after the 50-year absence is with the fact that after Communism the respect for knowledge is dead! What matters now, is how much acres and houses a person has! In this regard, the visitors are all treated as parriahs for by rule they own neither! I see hundreds of young Americans "confused" on the streets, not knowing what hit them. They are not respected for their university degrees and language skills, and they have no properties in Poland to show off. A parish priest at Jerzmanowice had once told me that "you Americans do not count here, you are nobodies." After he repeated this five times, I walked away, sick in body and in mind. This is what Poland is quickly becoming under Capitalism - the ruthless jungle where everybody is for himself!

[Pawian]

troubledgoodangel said:

I am in the midst of changing apartments, but I will answer your comment briefly, point per point.

Thank you for writing such a long explanatory post. I would like to comment on a few issues you elaborated on.

in Cracow, police officers refuse to respond if someone calls you names on the street. Under Communism, however, where these policemen worked, there was such lack of respect for the individual, that cursing one another was normal ... and this is why they see no reason to respond.

There are hardly any policemen today who worked under communism. In Poland the police is entitled to retire after 15 years of service, and communism collapsed 18 years ago. The problem has its source somewhere else - it is a general tendency of the police, not only in Poland I suppose, not to react to such petty offences as cursing because handling it requires a lot of time and brings little profit for cops. There is a system of points which policemen get for their efficiency, e.g., catching a robber or thief red-handed gives 50 points. The more points, the higher the salary. Probably cursing ranks too low for them to react.
Besides, very often it happens that in case of petty offences you must call or summon the policeman personally so that he could officially react. If he isn`t called, he won`t react on his own, fearing his intervention is not wanted.

It's normal for people to be different. There are however many Poles who are atheist, and even in my hotel there is not a single cross. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the owners are bad Poles (as a matter of fact, yesterday I asked them if they were Jews, and they told that no, that "they made a conscious decision not to aggravate the young people." I told them that this is a fatal mistake, and that was the end of the conversation.

Why do you want to put the cross in the hotel? Don`t you think that it is some kind of sacrilege to put it there for people who don`t believe in God? Displaying a cross for them won`t change their opinions, and the things they can do in the room in the presence of the cross might be too offensive to God.

But Priests and Nuns are meant to enlighten the rest of us, and they by all means should not be afraid of such conversations!

Unfortunately, they are afraid. You must understand that the clergy tend to view such conversations with strangers as suspicious, they are afraid to be entangled into discussions with Jehova`s Witnesses or they might be afraid that a mentally ill person approaches them. To make it clear, they are ready to teach children about God, thye will also help an adult if he/she loses faith in the existence of God. But when an adult person comes and wants to talk about God, then they smell some trap.

What I had in mind, though, is a Gypsy-like attitude of many Poles towards visitors. Ex: when you rent an apartment, the landlady may bring a vendor of expensive 2,000 złoty bed sheets, to test if you are a "free spender," that means, to test if you are a wealthy American. I simply find this intrusive.

It is nothing new. In every country there are such people. In Poland they have always been too, there are a few old Polish comedy films in which a greedy landlord or a taxi-driver charges higher price for a foreigner. Decades of poverty in Poland imprinted in people`s minds the belief that every foreigner was a capitalist who had money to burn. All Americans were treated as Rockefellers. It is still visible today.

I think you meant 200 zł, not 2000.

As far as "unasked for help," it is very annoying to me. Each day I drive to outside Cracow, I have to argue with people washing my windshield by force. I don't like that. If they ask, I may say yes. But I am offended when they do it against my will.

hahahahaha I know it from my own experience. Yes, I used to get very angry too, I shouted at them, even tried to chase some washers hahahaha. But it is senseless. Now when a washer approaches, I just sprinkle my windscreen and turn on the wipers. It is very funny to see their faces. I saw other drivers behind me do the same, I would advise you to follow this example. It helps!

Another thing is "forced parking help." I do not accept people teaching me how to drive. But it happens too often in Cracow.

Hmm, forced parking? I don`t know what you mean.

The worst thing of course is "breaking into onversation." I hate that! You ask some lady for directions, and the next person, usually a male, breaks into conversation and answers "for her."

hahahaha that can be really annoying, but I must say I have never paid attention to such details as who answers my questions. What matters is if they direct me well.

This is something Poles have learned from the Italians, who do it as part of their culture, but is extremely intrusive and impolite. I had many arguments on this with the Italians.

I am sorry but I must correct you. It was a Polish invention to wash windscreens on Italian crossings in 1980s. Poor Polish emigrants and political asylum seekers took it up as the only means of making a living. Poor Italians!

It turns out that the Poles, especially the young, are quickly learning from the French the bad manners!

Oh, yes, I understand you. Youngsters have terrible manners today, I know it from my school. hahahahaha

when I got lost in Mulhouse, France at night, I asked two Algerian-looking young men for directions. It was midnight, in a dark alley, and I knew no French. Their response was nauseating. They began mambling something unintelligible, shooting their arms in different directions, yelling and jumping on their feet as they spoke.

Probably they were mentally ill.

Yesterday, near Cracov, I got an identical response from two young men when I asked for an address at night.

Probably they were dead drunk.

And (5) my worst disillusionment after the 50-year absence is with the fact that after Communism the respect for knowledge is dead! What matters now, is how much acres and houses a person has!

Unfortunately, it is true. But remember, Poland has never been a rich country, after so many years of poverty people get obsessed with money.

In this regard, the visitors are all treated as parriahs for by rule they own neither! I see hundreds of young Americans "confused" on the streets, not knowing what hit them.

Well, did they expect to be treated like princes just because they are Americans? As I said before, in communist times every American was seen as Rockefeller. Polish women swarmed around American boys. It wasn`t normal either.

A parish priest at Jerzmanowice had once told me that "you Americans do not count here, you are nobodies." After he repeated this five times, I walked away, sick in body and in mind.

Hmm, I don`t know this priest, maybe he meant something else. Was he angry when he spoke to you?

This is what Poland is quickly becoming under Capitalism - the ruthless jungle where everybody is for himself!

Probably you are a bit right. Yet, many people still cherish the old values and they try to bring their children according to certain traditional rules.

PS. I am so sorry for you because you are visibly troubled and disappointed by Polish reality. But my advise is like that - you should take it easy. You can`t make angels out of the entire population. Most populations in the world are not angels, they are normal people with all their faults, sins and shortcomings.

You can`t help them, you won`t improve them. What you can do is to believe in God, stick to the traditional values yourself and believe in your own value too. Then nobody, nowhere will be able to offend or upset you.

[leslie]

Pawi
Just a little comment apropos of nothing! Remember some species of Homo (Hominid family) had little brains linked with little intelligence and very (if that) basic language abilities. Their main preoccupation, apart from hunting for food was attacking other tribes just because they were there. They did exist alongside other more intelligent members of the hominid species, but eventually they disappeared from the face of the Earth allowing the more intelligent species to get on with living and developing.

[Pawian]

leslie said:

Pawi
Just a little comment apropos of nothing! Remember some species of Homo (Hominid family) had little brains linked with little intelligence and very (if that) basic language abilities. Their main preoccupation, apart from hunting for food was attacking other tribes just because they were there. They did exist alongside other more intelligent members of the hominid species, but eventually they disappeared from the face of the Earth allowing the more intelligent species to get on with living and developing.

Sadly, I must correct you. If you mean the Neanderthal man and ascribe all those negative features to him, you are wrong. The latest research proved that the N. man was a gentle peaceful creature with high ethics and morale. He didn`t attack anybody, he used to stroll around the area looking for fruit, roots and other edible plants.

Unfortunately, it was us, homo sapiens creatures, who contributed to the disappeance of the N. man. We were greedy, carnivorous, rapacious and hostile.

A lot of that negative stuff is still present in us today.

[leslie]

Pawi

No, I didn't mean the Neaderthal - I agree with your comments about him. The ones I was referring to were much earlier, in fact before our ancestors left Africa. Look up about Australopithecus and early Homo - quite different from Neander.
Some personal information - I wrote a thesis on prehistory and the development of man from the Ape time - didn't follow through as I decided the Master's I had was relevant to what I wanted to do and one on Prehistory would just be academicia for the sake of it (as well as being expensive!).

Leslie

Leslie

[bescheid]

leslie said:

Pawi

No, I didn't mean the Neaderthal - I agree with your comments about him. The ones I was referring to were much earlier, in fact before our ancestors left Africa. Look up about Australopithecus and early Homo - quite different from Neander.
Some personal information - I wrote a thesis on prehistory and the development of man from the Ape time - didn't follow through as I decided the Master's I had was relevant to what I wanted to do and one on Prehistory would just be academicia for the sake of it (as well as being expensive!).

Leslie

Leslie

Leslie you sly one!

You told me not that you studied {Pre-History}! I loved it. But only were able to have limited studies as the focus was on studies {Frühe Westliche Zivilsation}{Mittler-Osten} Early Western Civilization pertaining to Middle East. My University studies was a gift of my goverment as a:{Work/Study/Programme} if I wished to study on their money, I worked in their programme, simple. As the University was in Bonn, it was only a few minutes walk to my work.

But, my love was Antropology. As with out pre-requsits to enter the study, I was told by the Professer, to write a paper, title Mann hat rechtes, zum zur Hölle in seiner eigenen Weises zu geen{Man has right to go to hell in his own way} it was completed in one day {with a few minutes to eat my middle day food}. I was only to have one subject programme, but it was worth it.

Interesting to hear of how and means of others in their life..

Charles

[troubledgoodangel]

I wish I could write more but I am just too busy today. I thank you for your well-meant analysis. We do it not for ourselves, but for Poland. (1) policemen in Poland, and police academies, are still run by the same professors and chiefs they were under Communism. Also, the rookies were all educated in Communist schools, under the wretched system, all of them! Their minds have not adapted as fast as one would want! (2) Why do I want a cross in hotels. First, because Poland is 98% Catholic. But for those who are not, I always remember to mention that a Star of David and a Moslem half-moon are also welcome by the side of the Cross! (3) As far as "fear the nuns have" I grant you this point. The nuns in Poland are remarkably different from nuns elsewhere. But my personal rule stands: when you are a holy person, and when you look into the eyes of another, eventually the fear will go away. But I agree, caution is in place in this evil world! (4) Not 200 but 2,500 zlotych was the price of astrakhan and merinos and burberrys (forgive misspellings) bed sheets my Polish landlady tested if "I wanted to buy." She wanted to know if this sum "matters for me." (5) Yesterday, a young guest in my hotel approached and started "guiding me" as I was leaving hotel. As someone who has driven for decades in many countries (including two trips from Florida to Alaska and from Buenos Aires to Rio Grande (Antarctica), I resented this uncalled for attempt "to control my driving ... by someone who has barely exchanged his "Maluch" for a Western car! (6) You are right, breaking in private conversations can be annoying. Unfortunately, as in Italy, it is becoming the rule in Poland! (7) When I said that "respect for knowledge is dead," I must qualify that. Poles are excelling in computer programming and economic skills. Here I agree that, because of this obsession with money, Poland's economic future is assured. The problem is, I repeat, that the old pre-Second World War politeness, nobility, manners, were thoroughly unlearned by the population of today! Most nobles (szlachta) are dead. This is why I look with horror on the people of today. They "look" my people, but they are utterly different! But I still love then, I must ... (8) No, the priest at Jerzmanowice spoke the truth that was on his mind. After 50 years of being "nobodies" people in Poland have no respect for American "somebodiness"! We were adored under Communism. Now, every day, I here people saying, "I do not care that you are American"! His parishioners, once beggars, are now all landlords and millionaires, almost overnight! (9) Lastly, dont "be sorry for me." I will manage and, after ny doctorate, I will probably will leave Poland if I am convinced that what I see is true. I will not leave in search for money, as most Poles do today. I will leave if disgust is too much. I will write more on that as regards the new "saga" of Fr. Rydzyk, which concerns me personally as theologian, and which I find appalling.

[leslie]

Hi Charles
I hadn't previously mentioned my interest and activity in the prehistory field as so many other things have got in the way since then, ones that I found equally interesting but enabled me to make a living! I still kept some interest in the subject and more recently, with the revisions of thought that have been made about some aspects and the publicity about them, I found my interest re-awakening. To me, one of the views that has found more and more substance is the limited 'out of Africa' movement as previously postulated. Rather than Europe Wales to Ukraine being the limited settlement migration region, man, many other sites are being accepted from Ukraine to Australia. large areas of Asia and the many islands (that may not have been as separated then as now) south of the main part of Asia.
The title of my thesis was a very formal one but when I decided I wasn't going to pursue it, I gave it a sub-title - I think Pawi would have been interested in that as it was 'You can't really be saying that my half-uncle is a chimpanzee!!'.
I think the various church elders - priests, pastors and the hierarchy - are responsible for a lot of the confused thinking of today as when they make any statement it is always dogmatic and made in a way that what they say is the only way and that everybody has to accept what they say. This is why I prefer my 'church' and its freer thinking than such as the dogmatic Catholic church, especially the Polish one. My view which I don't expect everybody to accept!
Leslie

[Pawian]

troubledgoodangel said:

I wish I could write more but I am just too busy today.

Take your time, I can wait.

Why do I want a cross in hotels. First, because Poland is 98% Catholic.

Hmm, it depends. If you poll people about the religion to which they are linked, the result may stay close to 90something %.

The problem starts when you ask difficult questions to people who claim they are catholic: you ask about which dogmas of their religion they know and follow in their lives; who their bishop is; what the commandments are; how often they go the church; if they support premarital sex..... etc etc

After such a little poll, it turns out that this 98% must be reduced a lot......

It is difficult to comprehend but most Poles are "Sunday Catholics." They go to church and take part in religious festivals but when it comes to following catholic standards......

Why is it so? Because, in their 98% declarations about the attachment to catholic religion Poles are often directed by certain tradition, not by a conscious choice of religious dogmas..

As far as "fear the nuns have" I grant you this point. The nuns in Poland are remarkably different from nuns elsewhere. But my personal rule stands: when you are a holy person, and when you look into the eyes of another, eventually the fear will go away. But I agree, caution is in place in this evil world!

As far as I know, Polish nuns are taught to be completely submissive to their cloister superiors and priests. Don`t expect a sincere conversation from a nun who spent life carrying out orders.

Not 200 but 2,500 zlotych was the price of astrakhan and merinos and burberrys (forgive misspellings) bed sheets my Polish landlady tested if "I wanted to buy." She wanted to know if this sum "matters for me."

O la la, it amounts to a salary that ordinary people earn in Poland. One might think the landlady runs her business in the Wawel Castle!

Yesterday, a young guest in my hotel approached and started "guiding me" as I was leaving hotel. As someone who has driven for decades in many countries (including two trips from Florida to Alaska and from Buenos Aires to Rio Grande (Antarctica), I resented this uncalled for attempt "to control my driving ... by someone who has barely exchanged his "Maluch" for a Western car!

He was just trying to lend a hand, sheer politeness. Some people just love helping others. You cannot hold grudge for that.

The problem is, I repeat, that the old pre-Second World War politeness, nobility, manners, were thoroughly unlearned by the population of today! Most nobles (szlachta) are dead. This is why I look with horror on the people of today.

Yes, some Poles need to learn manners. But such people are in every country. Politically uncorrect, aware of it and even proud of it. They are a nuisance to every society. Is American society better-mannered than Polish one?

No, the priest at Jerzmanowice spoke the truth that was on his mind. After 50 years of being "nobodies" people in Poland have no respect for American "somebodiness"! We were adored under Communism. Now, every day, I here people saying, "I do not care that you are American"! His parishioners, once beggars, are now all landlords and millionaires, almost overnight!

hahaha yes, it is disappointing, once prince, today nobody.

I think it is a result of the change in Polish perception of the West. Today Poles don`t go to the USA to look for jobs, they prefer Britain and Ireland. American dollar stands very low, much lower than euro. You cannot expect Poles to overlook such basic contexts.

I will write more on that as regards the new "saga" of Fr. Rydzyk, which concerns me personally as theologian, and which I find appalling.

I am looking forward to a discussion on this matter..

[ludikundera]

I don't share the sovieticus idols, but never talk to anyone on the tram/bus/subway. I don't consider it impolite. Quite the contrary: I think it's the epitome of politeness to leave people alone.

Incidentally, I've also noticed that people from the country talk to people they don't know much more often than city people. I mingle with both sets, and it's easy to tell the rural-minded, striking up conversations, from the urban-swellers, with their heads down and minding their own business.

Personally, I wish all people were city people.

[troubledgoodangel]

pawian said:

troubledgoodangel said:

I wish I could write more but I am just too busy today.

Take your time, I can wait.



Hmm, it depends. If you poll people about the religion to which they are linked, the result may stay close to 90something %.

The problem starts when you ask difficult questions to people who claim they are catholic: you ask about which dogmas of their religion they know and follow in their lives; who their bishop is; what the commandments are; how often they go the church; if they support premarital sex..... etc etc

After such a little poll, it turns out that this 98% must be reduced a lot......

It is difficult to comprehend but most Poles are "Sunday Catholics." They go to church and take part in religious festivals but when it comes to following catholic standards......

Why is it so? Because, in their 98% declarations about the attachment to catholic religion Poles are often directed by certain tradition, not by a conscious choice of religious dogmas..



As far as I know, Polish nuns are taught to be completely submissive to their cloister superiors and priests. Don`t expect a sincere conversation from a nun who spent life carrying out orders.



O la la, it amounts to a salary that ordinary people earn in Poland. One might think the landlady runs her business in the Wawel Castle!




He was just trying to lend a hand, sheer politeness. Some people just love helping others. You cannot hold grudge for that.



Yes, some Poles need to learn manners. But such people are in every country. Politically uncorrect, aware of it and even proud of it. They are a nuisance to every society. Is American society better-mannered than Polish one?



hahaha yes, it is disappointing, once prince, today nobody.

I think it is a result of the change in Polish perception of the West. Today Poles don`t go to the USA to look for jobs, they prefer Britain and Ireland. American dollar stands very low, much lower than euro. You cannot expect Poles to overlook such basic contexts.

I will write more on that as regards the new "saga" of Fr. Rydzyk, which concerns me personally as theologian, and which I find appalling.

I am looking forward to a discussion on this matter..