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Post by karl on Jun 6, 2020 10:39:48 GMT -7
The following is a video presentation that is a learning observation, that is if it fits us as individuals. My self whilst viewing in the first, was struck by my own early experience as a young man. For then, my self was ashamed that my family in Dänmark was poor but we never were short of food. But non-the-less, as Frisians, we were not exactly all Dansk, nor all German, but stuck in between so, who the heck were or who are we supposed to be? The answers came to me in much later years in bit pieces.
For the most of you with Polish back grounds, do not mistake and disregard your Polish back ground, in as well as Kai with his Slovak back ground and for Pieter with his Polish back ground through his mother. For this is what we are to the present that our parents and ancesters left for us as an inhertance to carry on to our children for them to do also. For this is who we are..
The following is of course fiction, but in it, is a message that many of us needs be reminded of.
Presenter
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jun 6, 2020 17:15:23 GMT -7
Dear Karl,
This is a sad story, because it makes me think of many stories in the Netherlands and other parts of the world where people struggle with self neglect, self denial and self hatred. Disturbed immigrant kids who look down on the culture and traditions of their grandparents and/or parents who came as guestworkers (immigrants) to the Netherlands or within one family in which 2 cultures are present and one is dominant opressing the other.
Karl my Polish back ground through my mother is of limited importance, because I was raised Dutch centric, and my mother became very integrated and assimilated. Altough I do not reject my Polish genes I know my limitations in linguistic sense and the distance that exists between me and the Polish culture from my Polish family in Poland and my Polish American family which was raised Polish by 2 Polish immigrants. In contrast with me my Polish American cousins can speak, read and write in Polish.
I learned something about Polish history, culture and cuisine, but have no idea how the present Polish society looks like, what is in the Polish news, what political things play right now in the Sejm, what kind of cinema, tv series, music and society changes or adaptions take place there right now. I have no clue. That fact alienates me from Poland. It is a fact that there is very limited English, German and Dutch language news about Poland.
Karl, with your sensitivity and acceptance of your past you have made a very nice syncretic construction in yourself of the Danish-Frisian and the German parts of and in you and merged them together. You have been very open in this Forum about your Danish temper, your Frisian heritage and your present day German identity. I wonder if you every go back to your beloved and wonderful Denmark, to the Jutland or to North Germany.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by kaima on Jun 6, 2020 22:17:27 GMT -7
Change the "Mexican" to any other ethnic designation and you can find the same problems that children have to resolve. Add in a 'mixed' cultural ancestry, either at home or in a new country that the family moved to, and the young are facing choices of where to place their values between old and new. For Moslems or Jews it might also include pressure to keep the "old ways" in the new society that may be nominally Christian or Secular.
Natives in the USA face this same dichotomy; their native culture (or Black, since that is in the forefront of attention today, but I hesitate to speak of them being so far removed from their experience). Their native culture and ways are bypassed by the modern society and the kids are exposed to an educational and faith system designed to distance them from their native past, and yet is not effective at bringing most of them into the main stream culture. Add perhaps a mixed ancestry and the choice of "which culture am I to be faithful to?" becomes stronger. This can end up with the school shooting as in 1997 Alaska village of Bethel, with a frustrated student killed a few people.
I witnessed some in my own family, with the oldest sister frustrated with a father who spoke with an accent, such a terrible burden for some teens. It didn't seem to bother the rest of us. It only seems to be after you survive those tumultuous years that the uniqueness comes to the front, and the extra spice that a close ethnic background brings to life starts to be appreciated.
Kai
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Post by karl on Jun 7, 2020 8:45:27 GMT -7
Pieter
Perhaps my self have created an intrusion upon you of which if so, I am deeply sorry for and perhaps should have not presented this presentation...
Thank you though for your very thoughtful reply that needs be considered in thought and reflexion.
Karl
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Post by karl on Jun 7, 2020 9:18:36 GMT -7
Kai
Upon your reply, is a great deal of food for thought and, a great deal of the realistic view of this dilemma some young people face once confronted with this personal conflict in their lives. For in many of young people, they lack the maturity of understanding this is only a mental state they can control once confronted.
With also in the body of your reply, lays also a deeply confronted situation that has been an issue in Germany with the various Gulf state and to an extent, Turkish immigrants of Islamic peoples. For their youth are faced with some very deep issues within their family groups in conflict with Muslim religious training and this country that is primarily Christian in values. This then becomes a very deeply troubled conflict for these Muslim youths to a greater extent. For the worse, is of adult Muslim fathers in the matter of anger with their daughters not adhering to their parents religious family requirements. They as head of the family, will against their parental love, kill their daughters to meet what they perceive as an honour killing. Then it becomes a murder that falls within the confines of the legal system.
It would appear that our known world is very fraught with danger unforeseen until the moment of decision that most of us face. Fortunately the most of us some with very good luck whilst the remainder were able to reason enough to over come such complex questions and arrive correctly with the answer{s}.
Thank you for your very sensitive and thoughtful reply, for it was laden with a great deal of complex and revealing issues of present day living.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jun 7, 2020 12:26:09 GMT -7
Change the "Mexican" to any other ethnic designation and you can find the same problems that children have to resolve. Add in a 'mixed' cultural ancestry, either at home or in a new country that the family moved to, and the young are facing choices of where to place their values between old and new. For Moslems or Jews it might also include pressure to keep the "old ways" in the new society that may be nominally Christian or Secular. Natives in the USA face this same dichotomy; their native culture (or Black, since that is in the forefront of attention today, but I hesitate to speak of them being so far removed from their experience). Their native culture and ways are bypassed by the modern society and the kids are exposed to an educational and faith system designed to distance them from their native past, and yet is not effective at bringing most of them into the main stream culture. Add perhaps a mixed ancestry and the choice of "which culture am I to be faithful to?" becomes stronger. This can end up with the school shooting as in 1997 Alaska village of Bethel, with a frustrated student killed a few people. I witnessed some in my own family, with the oldest sister frustrated with a father who spoke with an accent, such a terrible burden for some teens. It didn't seem to bother the rest of us. It only seems to be after you survive those tumultuous years that the uniqueness comes to the front, and the extra spice that a close ethnic background brings to life starts to be appreciated. Kai Kai,
Very interesting reply. Your eldest sister reminds me of my one year younger sister who was irritated that my mother wore a headscarf in the seventies (against the rain), because she was afraid that my mom would look like an immigrant or gypsy. Ofcourse that was of great concern for this young, blond, blue eyed, tall white girl, who wanted to be exactly the same like the other native Dutch kids with 2 native Dutch parents. I remember friends of mine looking strange or with a strange expression on their face when they heard my mother speaking Polish with my grandmother, who stayed sometimes for months, sometimes half a year with us. We were used to that but local/regional kids didn't. We spoke Dutch at school, standard Dutch at school and then it was weird for them that in our home an alien language was spoken next to Dutch. That is the reality in mixed families. Often 2, or 3 or 4 languages are spoken. My parents spoke English with each other when we were small, so that we could't follow their private conversations. And we communicated in German with our Polish grandmother when we were teenagers.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by pieter on Jun 7, 2020 12:29:15 GMT -7
Pieter Perhaps my self have created an intrusion upon you of which if so, I am deeply sorry for and perhaps should have not presented this presentation... Thank you though for your very thoughtful reply that needs be considered in thought and reflexion. Karl Karl,
I have no problem with your post, because it is a fact that I come from a mixed family, just like you. Mine is Dutch/Polish and your was German/Danish. I like this topic. Good that you brought it up.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by Jaga on Jun 7, 2020 17:55:42 GMT -7
Hello Karl,
I watched the video and I also wanted Ela to watch. It was very emotional, and very good. Kai is right that you can see exactly the same things in every culture. Parents try to implement some of the culture on their kids, but the children are rebellious to the certain extent since they want to fit in.
Teenage children are often rebellious towards the parents anyways. It is always hurt for the first generation to fit, so the second wants to forget and the third sometimes go back to the roots...
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Post by Jaga on Jun 7, 2020 17:57:17 GMT -7
Kai,
+++I witnessed some in my own family, with the oldest sister frustrated with a father who spoke with an accent, such a terrible burden for some teens. It didn't seem to bother the rest of us. +++
that is sad. People ask me about my accent but my own family does not really care anymore... at least thanks to your background you have so much interests with other cultures.
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Post by Jaga on Jun 7, 2020 17:59:17 GMT -7
Pieter.
+++Karl my Polish back ground through my mother is of limited importance, because I was raised Dutch centric, and my mother became very integrated and assimilated.+++
did your mother cook some Polish dishes? Just curious... I think her approach saved you some stress in life also.
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Post by karl on Jun 7, 2020 19:04:24 GMT -7
Jaga
My self was taken back with your reply of each with such sensativity and maturity. Jaga, you have struck the nail directly upon the head with teen children and their maturing minds beginning with their rebellion. Young people are dealing with a great many unknowns that in their youth have not the maturity as yet to understand the changes they are experiencing. This with their changing from childhood entering in to the next phase of life with entering in to adulthood.
In truth, I was very hesitant with presenting this subject, but after upon the replies from each and every one of you as dear friends, my mind has been put at ease. For my self was very much taken back with each and every reply that was not only mature, but of the reality of life as we live it.
For as above, I must say, this has been a learning experience through your each reply in understanding my self after all these years of regret. If we as people do not understand our selves, then how would we have the tools of experience in hope of understanding others. I do hope with trust that this was also with your selves as well.
Karl
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Post by pieter on Jun 8, 2020 3:29:38 GMT -7
Jaga,
My mother certainly cooked some Polish dishes like Kluski (Polish Noodles and Sauerkraut), Borscht, Pierogi and Łazanki z kapustą i grzybami. But after more than 50 years in the Netherlands her cooking style is more Dutch or Pan European, with mainly Dutch dishes, and sometimes French, Belgian, Italian (Spagetti Bolognese) and Polish kind of dishes. Next to that outside our homes (homecooking) we love and loved the food of the Chinese-Indonesian cuisine, Hungarian Goulash soup, and the Greek, Turkish, North African Berber (Couscous), Arabic/Israeli cuisine (Arabic & Israeli food is very similar and delicious. I love Fallafel and Shawarma dishes), Ashkenazi Yiddish kosher, the Kurd, Ladino Sephardic Jewish cuisine, the Japanese and Yugoslavian cuisine of the Balkan.
My mother was and is a pragmatic and thus practical cooker. She made healthy and good meals. A very organized and old fashionate Polish sophisticated lady. That style merged and blended in her new identity as a Dutch woman since 1967. The fact that the Polish communist authorities took away her passport and Polish nationality grieved her. We went in via visa’s. My sister, her husband and their 3 children have a Dutch passport in South Africa and the UK. That is the difference with my mother. The Polish Peoples Republic left a scar on my mothers soul. The war and communism left some traces in my mothers mind. She dealt with that like her mother, by not speaking about it and living a Dutch life.
Cheers, Pieter
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Post by Jaga on Jun 9, 2020 5:33:15 GMT -7
It seems that your mother is a great cook. Preparing Polish dishes takes a time. I only do Polish dishes when there is a special occasion, except maybe soups and red beet salad. I also mixed the traditions, and being pragmatic is important, healthy food is better than heavy Polish food during other times than winter.
+++ The war and communism left some traces in my mothers mind. She dealt with that like her mother, by not speaking about it and living a Dutch life.+++
so, maybe doing Polish food reminds her about these difficult times.
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Post by pieter on Jun 9, 2020 14:16:04 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Jun 9, 2020 14:21:01 GMT -7
Jesse KlaverJesse Feras Klaver (born 1 May 1986) is a Dutch politician serving as a member of the House of Representatives since 2010 and Leader of GroenLinks since 2015. Prior to this, he chaired the youth union of the Christelijk Nationaal Vakverbond from 2009 to 2010.Early lifeJesse Feras Klaver was born on 1 May 1986 in Roosendaal in the South of the Netherlands. His father has a Moroccan background and his mother has a mixed Dutch and Indonesian background. He grew up in a social housing project without the presence of his father. His grandparents played a large role in his upbringing. Between 1999 and 2004, he attended the vmbo at the Waldorf school Michael College in Prinsenbeek.
Between 2006 and 2009, he was member of the board of DWARS, the youth organization of GroenLinks. First, he was duo-chair for organization matters, later he was secretary and then he was elected chair. As chair, he supported the "freedom-loving course set by Femke Halsema" against the more communitarian elements within the party. In addition to serving in this function, he studied social work at the Avans University of Applied Sciences and the transition program for the master political science at the University of Amsterdam. He quit the transition program before finishing it.
On 17 September 2009, he was elected chair of the youth union of the CNV. As chair he announced he would put less emphasis on the Christian character of the CNV. He supported raising the retirement age to 67. On 1 December 2009, he was appointed to the Social Economic Council. Being 23 years old, he was the youngest member ever to sit on this council. In addition to chairing the CNV youth union, he co-authored the 2010 GroenLinks election manifesto; he was member of the board of the Christian Social Youth Congress and he was founder of the climate NGO Youth Copenhagen Coalition.On 17 September 2009, he was elected chair of the youth union of the CNVPolitical careerIn 2010, Klaver was placed seventh on the list of GroenLinks for the 2010 elections. GroenLinks won ten seats. Klaver became spokesperson social affairs, employment, education and sport. His maiden speech concerned higher education.
In 2010, he was nominated as "political talent of the year" by political journalists. For the 2012 elections Klaver headed the campaign team of GroenLinks and he was fourth on the list of candidates of GroenLinks. This was enough to be elected, as GroenLinks got exactly four seats. His TEDtalk in the late-night talk show Pauw & Witteman in January 2013, was chosen as the best of five young politicians.
In 2013, he co-authored the memo "Mooi Nederland" ("Beautiful Netherlands") with Lutz Jacobi (PvdA) and Stientje van Veldhoven (D66) which set out to protect nature, the landscape, flora and fauna. In 2013, he authored a private member's bill which through transparency sought to reduce food spillage. In 2014, he authored the proposal "Kansen voor kinderen voor het vmbo" ("Opportunities for Children in pre-vocational education").
Klaver received international attention for opposing tax evasion in 2013. Klaver co-authored the agreement on the student benefit with the minister of Education Jet Bussemaker and spokespersons of the VVD, D66, PvdA (the Dutch Labour party). He attended the inauguration of King Willem Alexander and took the oath "Zo Waarlijk helpe mij God almachtig". (So help me God allmighty)
On 12 May 2015, party leader Bram van Ojik announced that Klaver would be taking over party leadership effective immediately. Until then, Klaver had acted as a spokesperson for finance, agriculture, nature, animal welfare, education, culture and science. He is member of parliamentary committees on foreign affairs, defence, European affairs, economic affairs, finance, education, budgetary control, social affairs, health and procedural affairs.
Klaver continued to be GroenLinks' party leader during the Dutch general election of 2017. His party gained 10 seats, rising to an all-time high of 14.
Thanks to his political engagement he was nominated in 2018 as a European Young Leader (EYL40).Personal lifeKlaver married his wife Jolein on 3 May 2013. He has three sons.
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