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Post by livia on Feb 2, 2008 5:47:55 GMT -7
This is an experimental new thread. It will be continued in case of interest. All are welcome to participate and present Polish unfallen hero one likes ;D ;D ;D The Battle of Głogów was fought on August 14, 1109, between the forces of Poland and Germany. It is one of the most well known battles in Polish history. Polish forces were led by Bolesław III Krzywousty (Wrymouth), and the attacking forces were led by Henry V. Germany attacked Poland to force her's division. Bolesław was victorious. Germany for a long timesstopped attacks on Poland, turning attention to Italy. The Battle of Grunwald (or the First Battle of Tannenberg) was faught on July 15, 1410 between the forces of Poland-Lithuania and the forces of monastic state of the Teutonic Knights. The Polish-Lithuanian forces were led by King Władysław Jagiełło. The Teutonic forces by head of teutonic state, Urlyk von Jungingen who was killed during the battle. It was one of the greatest battles of medieval Europe and one of the most well known battles in Polish history.The aggresive monastic/ state of the Teutonic Knights was decisively defeated and their order never regained former power. The Battle of Orsha was faught on September 8, 1514, between the forces of Poland-Lithuania and Grand Duchy of Moscow. The Polish-Lithuanian forces were led by Hetman Konstanty Ostrogski, the Russians by Ivan Chelyadnin who was captured during the battle. The much smaller army of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Poland defeated the Russian forces and made Russians unwilling to fight in the open field for at least 100 years. The expansion to the West of the forming Russian state was stopped for much longer. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Konstanty_Iwanowicz_Ostrogski.PNG
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Feb 3, 2008 6:40:25 GMT -7
This is an experimental new thread. It will be continued in case of interest. All are welcome to participate and present Polish unfallen hero one likes ;D ;D ;D Me too?? Can I Really??? I would like to add a few words of my commentary..... This is a misconcept from Wikipedia. I wonder who wrote the English version of the Polish article. The battle wasn`t a real battle but a short siege of the medieval town of Głogów. Germans tried to capture it for a few days but couldn`t. And it is not the battle that is known but the children of Głogów who became hostages due to a deal and later, instead of returining home, they were chained by Germans onto seige towers which attacked the walls. Polish forces weren`t led by the king who was hiding with his small army in nearby forests. It was the governor of the town that led Poles. [/b][/quote] Yes, quite big but not taken advantage of. After the battle Polish Lithuanian army tried to capture Malbork but they couldn`t. The Teutonic Knights had built a really invincible fortress. In fact, the status quo exisitng before the battle was kept. Of course not. The Knights were only weakened, that`s all. They still posed a threat and there was another war, 13-years`War from 1454-1466, during which Polish forces were defeated a few times until they finally prevailed and the power of the Knights was broken. It is half truth. Why was the battle of Orsza fought at all? Because earlier powerful Russian armies invaded East territory of the Duchy of Lithuania, capturing the major city of Smoleńsk and many others. Poles went to their neighbours` aid. As usual, Poles and their allies won the battle but didn`t use it for their advantage. Smoleńsk wasn`t regained, the lost lands remained in Russian hands. Of course not. Russians never relinquished their pressure on formerly Rus lands occupied by Lithuanians in the East. Soon after Orsza there were more wars during which Lithuanians tried to regain Smoleńsk and all lost territory but they didn`t succeed. The wars were identical: a small Lituanian army backed up with a Polish contingent attacked Russian-held land and retreated without success. Then, happy at the pretext, a powerful Russian army invaded and gained another piece of territory from Lithuania.
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Post by livia on Feb 3, 2008 7:44:22 GMT -7
Yes you too ;D ;D ;D You are welcome to comment, but don't start the nit-picking. Or do you want to stop me working? ;D Example: yes the Battle of Głogów was a defensive battle. And not the huge battle with husaria attacking in full gallop. Yet, it was one of the most important in these early times. And one of the most well-known. Yes, the crew of Głogów defended the town, since King Bolesław was outside the city. He led ALL Polish forces against German invasion. No, the Polish king was not hiding in the forest, he was attacking Nakło at that time. It was the German king who was in the nearby forest. No, I did not use Wikipedia. I used 'Historia Rzeczpospolitej' which was released weekly in 'Rzeczpospolita' Sunday edition. It is excellent, multi-author, source of historical knowledge for the laymen as you and me
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Post by livia on Feb 3, 2008 7:51:17 GMT -7
Another example of time-consuming nit-picking: I say: their order never regained former power. you reply with full force: 'Of course not' And then you confirm what I say: Of course not. The Knights were only weakened, that`s all. They still posed a threat and there was another war, 13-years`War from 1454-1466, during which Polish forces were defeated a few times until they finally prevailed and the power of the Knights was broken. Is this exchange getttintg personal, Pawian? If your answer is yes - I get back to my shell and let it be as you say!
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george
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Post by george on Feb 3, 2008 7:52:47 GMT -7
Livia....Don't you know your dealing with a " know it all " teacher?
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Feb 3, 2008 9:07:20 GMT -7
Livia....Don't you know your dealing with a " know it all " teacher? George, long time no read! Nice to read you again. Yes, I am very conceited and consider myself an expert in many disciplines. I remain so until someone proves that I am wrong. Then I am happy to admit that I wasn`t right. But to convince me about it you must use really strong facts, not half truths or emotional argumentation. Do you remember our discussion about Warsaw Rising? hahahahaha
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Feb 3, 2008 9:16:36 GMT -7
Another example of time-consuming nit-picking: I say: their order never regained former power. you reply with full force: 'Of course not' And then you confirm what I say: Of course not. The Knights were only weakened, that`s all. They still posed a threat and there was another war, 13-years`War from 1454-1466, during which Polish forces were defeated a few times until they finally prevailed and the power of the Knights was broken. Hmm, do I really need to remind you what you wrote? Here you are: The aggresive monastic/ state of the Teutonic Knights was decisively defeated and their order never regained former power.So I answered that there is no sense in talking about their decisive defeat because the Knights were still a major threat and only 13 Years` War half a century later broke their backbone. No it`s not getting personal. I simply aim at historical accuracy, that`s all. hahahahahahaha Don`t forget that I am a Polish male, educated in humanities, well-read, interested in history, especially Polish history . I know everything about all Polish battles and my library exclusively on them is larger than all the books in your house! hahahahahaha You can`t teach me Polish military history. PS. Livio, don`t get disheartened! We are all waiting for next victorious battles!!! I will just love adding my commentary to them!!!!! hahahahahahaha
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Feb 3, 2008 9:37:50 GMT -7
Yes you too ;D ;D ;D You are welcome to comment, but don't start the nit-picking. Or do you want to stop me working? ;D No, you are doing very well, except that you need a few factual additions from my side. Hmmm.... There were equally or even more important ones. E.g., The capture of Kiev in 1018. Polish king tried to establish a pro-Polish monarch there. Or the Battle of Niemcza in 1017 with Germans trying to capture a Polish town, without success. The battle of Zawichost, 1205, with attacking Rus armies, totally defeated by king Leszek Biały. It was important as it weakened the Rus Province, today`s Ukraine, with which Poland was in conflict. BTW, it shouldn`t be called the Battle of Głogów, but the Siege or Defence of Głogów. Hmm, let`s get more precise for a while. Are we talking about the war and then I can agree that King Bolesław led all Polish forces or are we talking about the battle, which had one commander and it was the governor of the town called KOMES? Not the King? I don`t use such sources for simpletons who only start their historical education. hahahahahaha I prefer my library.
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Post by livia on Feb 3, 2008 10:02:34 GMT -7
Livia....Don't you know your dealing with a " know it all " teacher? Hi George, thanks for making me aware Don't worry I will have him for breakfast! Pawian's fine, I had some know it all teachers in high school who didn't have this great Polish humor this exemplat has ;D ;D ;D
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Post by livia on Feb 3, 2008 10:04:45 GMT -7
I remain so until someone proves that I am wrong. ;D ;D ;D ;D Good old Pawian again! I thought you were so But you have disappointed me never admitting the kids fought in REGULAR German army even confronted with Franek first hand relation. Now you must buy me flowers and write twenty times: I, Pawian, was wrong, there was no controversy when I saw one. I am a fallible human.
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Post by livia on Feb 3, 2008 10:11:11 GMT -7
Hmm, do I really need to remind you what you wrote? Here you are: The aggresive monastic/ state of the Teutonic Knights was decisively defeated and their order never regained former power.So I answered that there is no sense in talking about their decisive defeat because the Knights were still a major threat and only 13 Years` War half a century later broke their backbone. The consequences of the battle reach far beyond the perspective set by the first peace of Toruń. The victory near Grunwald most of all meant breaking Order of Teutonic Knights' power. The order ceased to be a major opponent for the Crown and Grand Duchy. The news about beating the army regarded unbeaten by not so well known monarch echoed loud around Europe. A myth of Teutonic Knights standing on guard of eastern frontiers of the Christianity faded like a smoke. The order lost ideological raison d'etre on the shoresof Baltic. Which is Liwia's clumsy translation of: Konsekwencje bitwy wykraczają jednak daleko poza perspektywę wyznaczoną pierwszym pokojem toruńskim. Triumf pod Grunwaldem/ oznaczał przede wszystkim złamanie potęgi zakonu krzyżackiego, który przestał być liczącym się przeciwnikiem dla Korony i/ Wielkiego Księstwa. Wieść o rozgromieniu przez bliżej nieznanego władcę armii uważanej za niepokonaną odbiła się szerokim/ echem w Europie. Jak dym rozwiał się mit Krzyżaków stojących na straży wschodnich rubieży chrześcijaństwa. Zakon stracił/ ideologiczną rację bytu nad Bałtykiem. Rafał Jaworski, excerpts from 'Wielkie pobicie', Rzeczpospolita, Historia Rzeczypospolitej, Zwycięstwa oręża polskiego, Part 3, March 18, 2006, p.14 WOW! ;D ;D ;D I've known a few guys who thought they were pretty smart But you've got being right down to an art You think you're a genius-you drive me up the wall You're a regular original, a know-it-all Oh-oo-oh, you think you're special Oh-oo-oh, you think you're something else Okay, so you're a rocket scientist That don't impress me much pl.youtube.com/watch?v=XcLPcBJy0Xw
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Post by livia on Feb 3, 2008 10:15:57 GMT -7
Are we talking about the war and then I can agree that King Bolesław led all Polish forces or are we talking about the battle, which had one commander and it was the governor of the town called KOMES? Not the King? We are talking about Polish unfallen heros and Polish military victories to counterbalance your historical masochistic predilections. Read it first before you so easily dismiss it.
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Feb 3, 2008 14:05:02 GMT -7
Are we talking about the war and then I can agree that King Bolesław led all Polish forces or are we talking about the battle, which had one commander and it was the governor of the town called KOMES? Not the King? We are talking about Polish unfallen heros and Polish military victories to counterbalance your historical masochistic predilections. Masochism? No way! Hey, soon you will run out of material. A few more victorious battles and that`s all. How about changing the name of the thread to more general History of Polish wars, battles and conflicts?? I could join it with stuff....
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Feb 3, 2008 14:20:48 GMT -7
I remain so until someone proves that I am wrong. ;D ;D ;D ;D Good old Pawian again! I thought you were so But you have disappointed me never admitting the kids fought in REGULAR German army even confronted with Franek first hand relation. Now you must buy me flowers and write twenty times: I, Pawian, was wrong, there was no controversy when I saw one. I am a fallible human. I can repeat it but only 10 times since you didn`t convince me to the end. I told you about 12-year-olds insurgents in Warsaw and pointed to the fact that disciplined Germans drafted boys over 16. So, it is a draw. But I can repeat it, what the heck, slightly changed of course. 1. Me, Pawian, I hereby admit that I arrived at a certain stumbling block while discussing things and I hereby KNOWINGLY, INTENTIONALLY AND VOLUNTARILY declare that I am a fallible human in order to avoid more blocks with certain Livia in the future. 2. -----II------- -----II------- 3. -----II------- -----II------- 4. -----II------- -----II------- 5. -----II------- -----II------- 6. -----II------- -----II------- 7. -----II------- -----II------- 8. -----II------- -----II------- 9. -----II------- -----II------- 10. -----II------- -----II-------
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Feb 3, 2008 15:07:00 GMT -7
The Polish Rus conflict started exactly 1000 years ago. Poles were successful for a few centuries. Later Russians prevailed. In 1018, the Polish king, summoned by the ruler of Rus who has just lost his power, organizes a military campaign in the East and goes as far as Kiev. The King Boleslaw Chrobry with the Rus ruler Swiatopelk at the Golden Gate in Kiev. The king is holding a sword. It is Szczerbiec, the Notched Sword. The legend says the king hit the Golden Gate while leaving Kiev. It is not true because the Gate was constructed long after Chrobry`s arrival to the city. ****It is a sword that was traditionally used in the coronation ceremony of Polish kings. It is the last surviving part of the Polish Crown Jewels - the crowns and other items were lost during numerous wars in the past. Although according to the legend it was used by Bolesław I Chrobry (Boleslaus the Brave, 992-1025), who notched it when hitting the Golden Gate of Kiev in 1018, it was most probably made in the 12th century, possibly for prince Konrad of Masovia. The Golden Gate was constructed in 1037, some time after Chrobry went to Kiev. Szczerbiec was used during coronations of Polish kings from the time of Władysław Łokietek to the time of partitions (around 1792). After the partitions, it was first captured by Prussians, who in 1796 took it to Berlin. Sold by a private collector, the sword went to Ermitage Museum in Sankt Petersburg. Finally in 1928 the Soviet Union gave it back to Poland, in accordance with the Treaty of Riga. At the outbreak of the World War II in 1939 it was evacuated from Poland to France. Then in 1940 it was evacuated to Canada, together with the gold deposits of the Polish banks. It came back to Poland in 1959. It is currently on display in the Wawel Royal Castle Museum, Kraków.****
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