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Post by pieter on Apr 1, 2021 15:49:36 GMT -7
 Prime minister denies lying but won’t reveal who warned him about Omtzigt commentApril 1, 2021  Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte was fighting for his political life on Thursday afternoon after it emerged that he had mentioned the possibility of another job for a highly critical CDA MP during cabinet formation talks.Thursday’s parliamentary debate on the coalition talks debacle started and then were suspended after it emerged Rutte had discussed the position of outspoken Christian Democrat Pieter Omtzigt with officials after all.Rutte said earlier that he was not responsible for suggesting that Omtzigt could be given a job elsewhere when talking to the two scouts appointed by parliament to assess potential coalitions with party leaders.The comment was made on notes carried by scout Kajsa Ollongren and visible to the press when she left parliament after testing positive for coronavirus last week.The note implied that Omtzigt – a staunch critic of the current coalition government – might be offered another job to get him out of parliament. But the fact that an individual MP was mentioned in the coalition talks, and by another party leader, would be highly controversial and could be seen as an effort to silence him.Rutte, who denied lying, told MPs he had been reminded in an early morning phone call that it was him who mentioned Omtzigt’s name in talks with Ollongren and Annemarie Jorristma last week.‘This morning I was rung by someone who said that I had mentioned Pieter Omtzigt’s name after all,’ Rutte told MPs. ‘But I am not going to name my sources.’Other party leaders were not given the notes taken at their meetings with Ollongren and Jorritsma until 9.30am.LyingMPs from across the political spectrum accused Rutte of either lying or having a very bad memory.D66 leader Sigrid Kaag said during the debate that there is a pattern in Rutte’s forgetfulness. ‘How can this happen, and how can you, as possibly the longest serving prime minister, win back confidence,’ she said.
Kaag tegen Rutte: ‘Hier scheiden onze wegen’ ('Here we take seperate roads') t.co/YzibB8VqIo pic.twitter.com/Y5p4LZ9XDh — RTL Nieuws (@rtlnieuws) April 1, 2021Rutte’s comments, she said, ‘are not good, and not good is an understatement’. Jesse Klaver, leader of GroenLinks, said that it is ‘very coincidental’ that Rutte always says he has no recollection of things when in a difficult situation. Commentators in The Hague are now suggesting that Rutte has no option but to stand down as caretaker prime minister. He also faces a vote of no confidence later in the evening. |
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Post by pieter on Apr 1, 2021 15:55:24 GMT -7
The atmosphere in the Dutch parliament. Oppostion politician Geert Wilders attacks prime minister Mark Rutte. "You lied, you tried to silence an excellent parliament member. This is a shame, you should resign." Geert Wilders: "You should resign yourself, beat it Rutte! The Dutch politics is dead sick. With this Prime Minister we can't continue."
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Post by pieter on Apr 1, 2021 15:58:24 GMT -7
It is all about this Christian Democratic parliament member Pieter Omtzigt
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Post by pieter on Apr 1, 2021 16:06:00 GMT -7
Dutch comment:
Erik L van Dijk - Contrarian in a Changing World
@eriklvandijk2
·
8h
Food for thought: Omtzigt-Gate in the Netherlands. If this were Israel Hoekstra (CDA) and especially Kaag (D66) would now crash PM Rutte (VVD) and optimize their chances in a new election. Day of his life for #Wilders? (Geert Wilders, leader Freedom Party PVV)
#omtzigtdebat #Rutte #CDA #Omtzigt #Kaag (D66) #Hoekstra (CDA) #VVD #D66 #PVV
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 4:25:15 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 4:26:01 GMT -7
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56611399 A sticky mess for 'Teflon Mark' The scene inside the normally tame Dutch parliament was at times gladiatorial.
For 12 gruelling hours, MPs questioned Mark Rutte's credibility, integrity and history of memory loss.
When the notes emerged revealing he had in fact discussed Pieter Omtzigt's future, he said he had misremembered and not lied.
The man nicknamed "Teflon Mark" demonstrated Houdini-like abilities to extricate himself from what had seemed an inescapable mess.
And yet images of the caretaker prime minister, sprinting through the corridors of parliament in the early hours of the morning, pursued by journalists with their microphones attached to sticks - to allow for socially-distanced interviews - gave the impression of an animal being hunted.
But his real predators are inside the chamber.
Mr Rutte made it back to the blue seats alongside them on time and survived, but he's bruised and vulnerable, his authority has been compromised.
This turbulent experience will inevitably have an impact on the shape and direction of the new government, and there are no guarantees Mark Rutte will be leading it.
He must still find other parties prepared to join forces with him to form the next coalition.
His closest allies and intended coalition partners, Sigrid Kaag and Wopke Hoekstra, proposed the motion critical of his conduct. Whether their aim was to throw him a lifeline or lay a gangplank, only the choppy weeks ahead will tell.
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 4:26:18 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 4:26:38 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 4:57:10 GMT -7
 Chamber chairwoman Arib informs the king about the situation regarding reconnaissance Khadija Arib (Dutch: [xaːˈdiʒaː aːˈrip]; Arabic: خديجة عريب; born 10 October 1960) is a Moroccan-Dutch politician of the Labour Party serving as Speaker of the House of Representatives of the Netherlands since 12 December 2015.Speaker of the House of Representatives Khadija Arib today spoke by telephone with the king about the failed reconnaissance and the debate yesterday. The Government Information Service has announced this. Pieter Herman Omtzigt (born 8 January 1974) is a Dutch politician of the Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA) who has been a member of the House of Representatives since 2003 apart from a short interruption from 17 June to 26 October 2010. In his political work, Omtzigt focuses on matters of taxes and pensions. He rose to prominence for his role in uncovering the childcare benefits scandal. The information, formation and administrative crisis of this week is centered about 'secret talks' about this parliament member, whom would be offered a job as a minister to silence him as a critical parliamentarian and watchdog and whistleblower. "Arib has informed the King about the parliamentary debate and about the situation that has arisen during the exploratory phase of the cabinet formation," says a press release.
A spokesman for Arib tells the ANP that the President of the House will inform the king "regularly". That happened a few days after the elections last month.No more formal role Since the cabinet was formed in 2012, the head of state no longer plays a formal role in the formation of a new cabinet. The House of Representatives is now taking the lead, but it is customary that the king is regularly updated on the progress of the negotiations.
Until late last night, the Chamber debated about the reconnaissance phase of the formation. One of the outcomes of that debate was that the new scouts appointed last week, Van Ark and Koolmees, will stop their work.
On the initiative of D66 leader Kaag, one new scout will be introduced, with authority and at a distance from politics. It is not yet known who this will be. The Dutch King, WWillem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand van Orange-NassauMotion on king The leaders of the conservative orthodox Calvinist Reformed Political Party (Dutch: Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij, SGP) and the Christian-democratic Christian Union (party), Kees van der Staaij (SGP) and Gert-Jan Segers (ChristenUnie)Last night, the House of Representatives also passed a motion from ChristenUnie and SGP, in which it is argued that in the future "an external party should be charged with the first steps in the cabinet formation, including the possible role of the head of state standing above the parties". .
The motion was accidentally supported by D66 and thus a majority. It was precisely that party that took the initiative in 2012 to remove the king from the formation. The leaders of the conservative orthodox Calvinist Reformed Political Party (Dutch: Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij, SGP) and the Christian-democratic Christian Union (party), Kees van der Staaij (SGP) and Gert-Jan Segers (ChristenUnie) |
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 5:20:12 GMT -7
Folks,
The outrage, disbelief, distrust, disappointment, contempt, anger, rage, amazement, bewilderment, confusion, frustration and irritation about the role the Dutch Prime Minister played as parliament leader and parliament member of the largest VVD party in the reconnaissance period before the information and formation process for a New Government Coalition was and is large. The debate in the Dutch parliament took whole day yesterday, the whole evening and 3 hours in the early Thursday morning. The debate ended 3 AM. Prime Minister Mark Rutte survived but not unscathed.
Mark Rutte, leader of the VVD had to defend himself against the second largest party D66 (a partner in his demissionary administration), Geert Wilders PVV, Thierry Baudets Forum voor Democracy, JA21 from Joost Eerdmans, his government coalition partners, the CDA (Christian Democrats), the Labour Party (PvdA), the Greens (GroenLinks), the Socialist Party (SP), the radical left BIJ1 of Sylvana Simons, the leftwing Populist migrant party Denk (Think), the farmers movement representative of the BBB (Citizens Farmers Movement), the Party of the Elders and the quite influential Party for the Animals.
Rutte will have to regain trust from D66, the CDA, the labour Party, GreenLeft and the SP and JA21 to be able to form a new political parties. The conservative orthodox Calvinist Reformed Political Party (Dutch: Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij, SGP) and the Christian-democratic Christian Union (party) will be willing to endorse, support and/or join a new coalition government, but they are to small to put a lot of weight on the balance.
Cheers
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 6:04:27 GMT -7
The positive thing is that democracy worked. Despite the overdose of political parties and thus fractions in the parliament there was a united spirit in favour of 'honesty', 'transparancy', 'openess', 'clarity', 'the truth' (truthseeking), 'directness', 'clearness', 'democracy' and 'freedom'. Was it damaging for the trust in 'leaders', 'politicians', 'Civil Servants', 'the political process', 'the fact that a new government coalition must be formed and that there is a lot of work to do', Yes! The debate showed a lot of political parties and that that fact costs a lot of time. So, be it. The Dutch people have spoken and they voted a lot of different political parties in the Dutch parliament. The present elected politcal parties with their elected seats in parliament: 1) VVD: 34 seats in the House of Representatives (de Tweede Kamer): he People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (Dutch: Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie, VVD; Dutch pronunciation: [vɔl(ə)kspɑrtɛi voːr vrɛiɦɛit ɛn deːmoːkraːˈtsi]) is a centre-right conservative-liberal political party in the Netherlands. 2) D66: 24 seats: Democrats 66 (Dutch: Democraten 66; D66, pronounced [ˌdeː zɛsə(n)ˈzɛstəx]; officially: Politieke Partij Democraten 66, pronounced [poːliˈtikə pɑrtɛi deːmoːˈkraːtə(n) zɛsə(n)ˈzɛstəx]) is a social liberal political party in the Netherlands. 3) PVV (Partij voor de Vrijheid): 17 seats : The Party for Freedom (Dutch: Partij voor de Vrijheid, PVV) is a nationalist, right-wing populist political party in the Netherlands. 4) CDA: 15 seats : Christian Democratic Appeal (Dutch: Christen-Democratisch Appèl, pronounced [krɪstə(n)deːmoːkraːtis ɑˈpɛl]; CDA) is a Christian-democratic political party in the Netherlands. 5) SP (Socialistische Partij): 9 seats : The Socialist Party (SP, Dutch pronunciation: [ɛs peː]; Dutch: Socialistische Partij, Dutch pronunciation: [soːʃiaːˈlɪstisə pɑrˈtɛi]) is a left-wing, democratic socialist political party in the Netherlands. 6) Partij van de Arbeid (P.v.d.A.): 9. : The Labour Party (Dutch: Partij van de Arbeid, [pɑrˈtɛi vɑn də ˈʔɑrbɛit], abbreviated as PvdA, [ˌpeːveːdeːˈjaː, -deːˈʔaː] or P van de A, [ˌpeː vɑn də ˈʔaː]) is a leftwing social-democratic political party in the Netherlands. 7) GROENLINKS: 8 seats : GroenLinks (Dutch pronunciation: [ɣrunˈlɪŋks], lit. 'GreenLeft') is a progressive and green political party in the Netherlands. 8) Forum voor Democratie: 8 seats : Forum for Democracy (Dutch: Forum voor Democratie, FvD) is a conservative and right-wing populist Eurosceptic political party in the Netherlands. 9) Partij voor de Dieren: 6 seats : The Party for the Animals (Dutch: Partij voor de Dieren; PvdD) is a political party in the Netherlands. Among its main goals are animal rights and animal welfare. 10) ChristenUnie: 5 seats. : The Christian Union (Dutch: ChristenUnie, CU) is a Christian-democratic political party in the Netherlands. The CU is a centrist party, maintaining more progressive stances on economic, immigration and environmental issues while holding more socially conservative positions on issues such as abortion and euthanasia. The party describes itself as "social Christian". 11) Volt: 3 : Volt Netherlands (Dutch: Volt Nederland, abbreviated Volt) is a social-liberal political party in the Netherlands. It is the Dutch branch of Volt Europa, a political movement that operates on a European level. 12) JA21: 3 : JA21 (pronounced [ˌjaːʔeːnənˈtʋɪntəx], backronym for Juiste Antwoord 2021, lit. 'Correct Answer 2021' or 'Right Answer 2021') is a Conservative liberal, Rightwing Populist, Eurosceptic, Fortuynist ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn ), Anti-immigration political party in the Netherlands, which is currently active in the Senate as the Nanninga Group (Dutch: Fractie-Nanninga, formerly known as Fractie-Van Pareren). 13) Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij (SGP): 3 : The Reformed Political Party (Dutch: Staatkundig Gereformeerde Partij, SGP) is a rightwing conservative orthodox Calvinist political party in the Netherlands. 14) DENK: 3 seats: Is a leftwing Populist, Pro-migration, Social Democratic migrant interests and thus multi-cultural political party. It's parlaimentarians in parliament are Turkish Dutch and Moroccan Dutch. Farid Azarkan (Moroccan), Tunahan Kuzu (Turkish) and Selçuk Öztürk (Turkish). Azarkan is the Leader of the party in parliament and in the party organisation. 15) 50PLUS: 1 seat: 50PLUS (Dutch pronunciation: [ˈfɛiftɪx plʏs]), is a political party in the Netherlands that advocates pensioners' interests. 16) BBB: 1 seat: Farmer Citizen Movement (Boer Burger Beweging). Farmer interests, rural interests, representing people outside the Big city area of the Randstad ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad ) 17) BIJ1: 1 seat : BIJ1 (Dutch pronunciation: [bɛi̯ˈeːn]; lit. 'together'), is a Far left anti-racist and anti-capitalist political party in the Netherlands. |
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 6:08:11 GMT -7
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Post by karl on Apr 2, 2021 13:19:31 GMT -7
Pieter
In life and more so in the world of politics, a person such as Mr. Mark Rutte may make a hundred good decisions, make a hundred right choices, speak more then a hundred right words at the correct times. But,,one misstep and he/she is cursed for that one misstep..
Karl
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2021 19:42:45 GMT -7
Karl,
You got a good point there. I think sometimes democratization or openness can go to far like in this case. Sometimes things must be able to be said behind closed doors with privacy and no leaks to be able to do politics, make political deals, negotiate, have influence and sometimes out of reasons of tact, empathy, tactical and strategic reasons must not come out of the closed space of that 4 walls without ears. Sometimes for party political reasons, for coalition vs opposition reasons, people should be able to talk with allies, loyalists and kindred spirits and not to the opposition, political enemies, the press, the public, because the course, the road of the process isn’t followed yet and a certain secrecy, of knowledge by a limited group is necessary for the continuation and progression of the process of political deal making by connaisseurs, informators or formators. These informators speak with a lot of political party leaders, get a lot of opinions, favors, rejections of certain scenario’s, proposed plans, developments and handlings of things and deals.
One must be able to speak about favorite partners, individual politicians, possible combinations, possible blokkades and about what might work and what might not work with whom.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Apr 3, 2021 3:01:12 GMT -7
Folks,
To counter my previous post, Rutte has a past of forgetting things or trying to convince people he forgot things he said. Some parties and politicians believe he has governed to long and believe he hangs to much to power and to less on the Checks and Balances and Countervailing powers we have too in our parliamentary democracy.
For these critics from the left, Centre and Right, Rutte hangs to much to power and belongs to the The Hague National Power base (Top civil servants of the ministries and departments -the secretary generals and other top Civil Servanrs), the CEO’s of Dutch Multinationals, his own advisors and civil servants and the European elite of the prime ministers, presidents and queens and kings.
He is called the Teflon man due to his rubber poker face and the fact that he is 11 years in office.The present ChristianUnion announced they won’t serve another term with Mark Rutte in a new coalition administration. The Youth Wing of the Social Liberal and Centrist D66 called on D66 leader Sigrid Kaag not to join a new administration with Prime Minister Rutte.
It will be a very complicated process to form a new administration in weeks or months. Rutte got a large blow and is damaged. Trust is gone with many political parties. The coming period will be a time of tough negotiations between the various political parties and Mark Rutte’s VVD which is the largest political party. It is no secret that D66’s Sigrid Kaag wants to be the future prime minister.
I say, Belgian circumstances.
Cheers,
Pieter
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