Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Nov 12, 2005 13:19:55 GMT -7
The media have revealed that secret talks have been going on between American and Polish authorities about locating an American anti-missile system in Poland. There are already two anti-missile stations in the USA (e.g. in Alaska), the third one can be built in Central Europe: Poland, the Czech Republic or Hungary. Nicholas Rey, a former ambassador to Poland, is against it and warns Poles not to accept the deal. He says that the system is too expensive and doesn`t work properly, consequently, it is not worth building it because it would naturally constitute a gross provocation for Russia.
If they build it here, I surely won`t march in protest.
However, if it is built somewhere else, I will be quite pleased too.
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forza
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 514
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Post by forza on Nov 12, 2005 14:12:13 GMT -7
Government spokesman did not confirm this Gazeta Wyborcza news but... it is almost sure polish troops will stay in Iraq. Locals from Iraq have already expressed their desire so we wouldn't leave. All in the Paragraph 22 fashion btw.
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Post by sciwriter on Nov 12, 2005 14:21:58 GMT -7
USA Should install it in Albania (LOL).
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Post by bescheid on Nov 12, 2005 15:46:42 GMT -7
Pawian, what is your feelings concerning this? What do you think about the prospect of this system on your soil? The money is always available for construction of defense projects. There always is the risk of retaliation from a neigbouring country, but, then, who will predict who the next enemy be? For at least, you would have a good sword and shield for defence, sure beats a sharp stick when and if a fight begins. www.spacewar.com/2004/040715114629.vm3igb3m.htmlCharles
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Nov 13, 2005 2:02:34 GMT -7
Pawian, what is your feelings concerning this? What do you think about the prospect of this system on your soil? The money is always available for construction of defense projects. There always is the risk of retaliation from a neigbouring country, but, then, who will predict who the next enemy be? www.spacewar.com/2004/040715114629.vm3igb3m.htmlCharles You are a tough interlocutor. You are still pressing for an answer although I wrote:
Now, I think I will like it. Why?: 1. Europe should have such a shield. It is not only against Russian missile threat, most of all it might help us stop some fanatic terrorist missile acts in the future. Today terrorists use planes and suicidal attackers to hurt what they hate. In the future they might resort to missiles, even long range ones.
2. And not only terrorist threat. The case of Iran`s president who urged the Muslim world to burn Israel prove that even heads of states are as unpredictable as terrorists themselves.
3. The opponents of the shield claim it is too expensive and still faulty. But it doesn`t matter. Once built, the station can be improved and developed till it is fully operational. It may takes years but the time is not limitless, the decision to build it must be taken now to allow the station some time for improvement.
4. I am a little perfidious. I would like to see the rage of Putin and others who dislike America ha ha ha. Poland would pay politically and financially for it (e.g. a halt on gas, oil supplies from Russia) but I just don t care at this stage. My malicious nature takes over. I can`t help it.
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forza
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 514
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Post by forza on Nov 13, 2005 2:40:15 GMT -7
Off topic but.... more signals polish troops will stay longer in Iraq. I am wondering what our parliamentary coalition members like Samoobrona and LPR would react. They were so critical so far (that is right before the elictions) of having any troops in Iraq. Being ironic: It would be SLD (they are in parliamentary opposition now) who will demand to send our troops back home now "forgetting" are the onew who sent them there at first place. We have discussed the possibility for Poland to maintain its forces longer in Iraq, along with the matter of their contribution to the training of Iraqi forcesDefence Minister Saadun al-Dulaimi told reporters Sdaturday after meeting Polish counterpart Radoslaw Sikorski More...<----Here's a also a bio of Radoslaw Sikorski ( text doc. from an official government source)
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Nov 13, 2005 5:25:19 GMT -7
Off topic but.... more signals polish troops will stay longer in Iraq. How about having a discussion in a seperate thread?
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Post by bescheid on Nov 13, 2005 8:41:21 GMT -7
Dear Pawian, Please do forgive me for being such a bore and hard liner. I had not intended to be so. For the purpose of a forum, is for enjoyment and exchange, I was carried away and abused that purpose. I am still trying to adjust to retirement life from an over too long life of meetings and presentations. I am not sure I like it (retirement). Your analyzes was very excellent. Through your eyes, my self and of course, others, will gain a much more clear and concise prospective of the currant and present situation you folks are dealing with there in your country. Thank you for this... In as much as to the Russian/petroleum export question and your vulnerability to loss of this product, for political reasons. Who knows for sure. If we could predict the future, we could be rich in the futures market. I think though, a moment begs of examination of the Russian leadership and what they are faced with. With the currant and rapidly expanding Russian economy. Comes the related needs for fuel energy to feed the economy in the private sector (transportation, consumer needs, manufacturing) and not to mention for defense needs. They (Russian leadership) are in dire need of hard cash earned through exports primely of Petroleum supplies, goods and services. If by chance of an interruption of these exports, specifically, petroleum, it would of a serious nature to their economy. And there lays the prime danger of our present times. Destruction of any location of production, distribution of those petroleum supplies could have very serious effects with the stability of Eastern Europe. This in effect would be of grave concern to all, Europe, the United States and that of other supporting nations. That was the purpose of my remark of a different enemy that could or would, be other then Russia. But then, no one has a Crystal ball as so accurate as to predict the future in this regard. That is the prime reason for the development and placement upon your soil and that of neighboring countries, a protection from weapons being launched from sources other then Europe. Targeting sensitive locations and populated areas. With currant technology, the launch sources are no problem. It is a problem if the responsible groups are of an irregular source rather then be it, a nation. This is the area of information that can be best obtained through shared intelligence sources. Although, it may not seem apparent, but, for some years, American research and development companies have been in Russia for joint development of various defense systems and aircraft power systems. Our world is different now and you guys are an important part of it. Poland has in the past, and present, has held a special friendship relationship with the United States. I would be remiss to have not brought that forward to you. For this reason, many strategic weapons have been forwarded to your country and placed in your trust for defensive purposes. I would expect this trust will be a lasting one between our two nations. Besides, what choice do we have, with such a large Polish population here in America, you guys might just decide to take over....Just kidding, but, you have the idea. www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/russia.htmlThank you Dear Pawian for your patience, I think this will be the last of my over serious post. It is just not appropriate to the purpose of this very fine forum. As a person, I would most be interested in conserving the purpose as intended by Jaga and Nancy. They have both done an out standing job in the creation of this forum. I would like most, to see it as very successful as intended. Charles
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Nov 13, 2005 12:13:21 GMT -7
Thank you Dear Pawian for your patience, I think this will be the last of my over serious post. Charles Hey, come on, it is a pleasure to talk to you. I was humorous, not offended, when I named you a tough interlocutor. It was a good question of yours because you just made me rethink my position on the shield issue and elaborate on it in my next post. The problem is that Russia holds a monopoly on some supplies to Europe, especially gas. If they cut it, Poland would stop functioning, not even properly, but entirely. I was joking about enraged Putin and his henchmen. But soon my smile can vanish from my lips when it really happens, i.e. there will be no gas. And the Kremlin won`t suffer financially too much. They will be able to find other customers. Countries need more and more recources, e.g. China devours everything in incredible amounts. Russian leaders know it and they expect not only financial profits from the situation but also political ones.
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Post by kaima on Nov 13, 2005 13:52:04 GMT -7
Ah, Missile defense, a system that doesn't work against a threat that doesn't exist and transfers much of un-taxed (borrowed) money from the US to the military-industrialists. It is almost as effective a profit generator as oil firms.
Occasionally I run across a friend in Alaska who works for the missile defense system, and I do thank him. Since the system is on line we have not had a single successful missile attack! SUCCESS!
Now if only I could dip into the public moneys as the industrialists have!
Kai
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forza
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 514
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Post by forza on Nov 13, 2005 14:17:42 GMT -7
Kai, You are right on target there.
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Post by bescheid on Nov 13, 2005 15:56:30 GMT -7
Pawian, Thank you for your post reply, in your own manner, you humour just brought me out of the doldrums of depression. I just must learn to relearn the art of humour as you have so demonstrated. Thank you..... I do agree with you though in as much as the monopoly the Russians currently enjoy with export of petroleum and gas supplies (earth gas) to Europe. And, I tend to agree with you on the question of the new China syndrome of gobbling up energy supplies for their newly emerging manufacturing awakening. It certainly is costing us in pump prices here. Another url of information that I am slowly dissolving from is: Alexanders Gas % Oil Connections. www.gasandoil.com/goc/frame_nte_news.htmthey are a good source of currant information. Their quarterly journals though are a bit pricey, accurate, but, pricey. Now, my personal economy (wallet) will not support their services. The above url though, is a reflection of your irritations in concerns to by passing of Russian petroleum supplies past Poland. The situation though, with the Russian suppliers is this: Once they have committed to guaranteed supply's to Germany, and, they renege on those contracts. Then Bund guaranteed investment money for currant transportation projects by Chrysler/Daimler Benz projects, can be placed on hold. this would be very damaging to their proposed public transportation projects. Also, to make worse, their (Russian) reputation for stability for future foreign investments of which at this time, is rather dismal. In other words, the Russians are responsible for their own foul luck and reputation. It is up to them to make good on what contracts they have promised. In other words, now the time is rapidly approaching for a economic show down for the Russians, either put up, or shut up. They will please their former enemies of the Chinese, or stick with the West, their choice. It is all about money, microwave ovens, computer chips. The international market place is not an area for amateurs. I am extremely happy to be just a pension enjoyer. Charles
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Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
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Post by Bob S on Nov 13, 2005 20:39:25 GMT -7
;D I would be thinking of a secondary use for such a system and maybe a diferent primary use. How about using it against some of that space junk that seems to target Earth every now and then. I am thinking about all those unmanned space rocks that every now and then make a close approach to us. Those rocks really have some high velocities and can do a lot more damage than a bomb can. It would be nice and a change to find other uses for such a weapon. We do not have any of that sci-fi stuff yet and any little bit would help. I subscribe to the notion of bettermeant of mankind and this might be one small step.
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Post by bescheid on Nov 14, 2005 9:14:01 GMT -7
You have a good point there Bob, in the past some of the equipment that was sent into orbit, lost orbit and rained down across the earth. fortunately, the junk struck areas of low population. www.space.com/spacewatch/space_junk.htmlCharles
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Post by justjohn on Nov 14, 2005 10:35:17 GMT -7
Now if anybody here is into saving their governments some money, welllll - - - - I think I can stir up a 'NIKE" anti missle system or two. Last one I saw was in Plainville, CT up on a hillside.
Probably get this stuff real cheap!!!!!!!
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