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Post by bescheid on Mar 15, 2006 8:46:30 GMT -7
Leslie
I was also thinking of another person I have admired. That of Sir. Winston Churchill. I remember reading the stories of his early life and while in the Boer wars in South Africa. Then his political life and his leadership in the war years.
I was always impressed with his leadership style and statesmanship. He could have very well been a bum on the side, but, his statesman ship I always thought, was very impressive. He knew how to get a point across.
Charles
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Post by leslie on Mar 15, 2006 10:12:48 GMT -7
Charles Do not think I am being unpatriotic, but I once thought Churchill was unassailable as a hero. But I began to hear little snippets - principally at the gossip level - about him and I had some doubts. Then just recently, as I have commented on the forum, I have read 'For Your Freedom and Ours' and there, laid out bluntly and I believe honestly are many failings he had, particularly with regard to the Polish nation during WWII. He was not alone, because Roosevelt was as bad, if not worse than he in the continual appeasement of Stalin - "we'd better not do that because it might upset Stalin". It apparently was his decision that the Free Polish Army, Navy and Air force who had fought so gallantly in just about every theatre of war - many brave soldiers, sailors and airmen - were not invited to take part in the London Victory Parade at the end of the war, just a few airmen who were supposed to merge in with the RAF. Even Russia and the Communist-controlled Polish Government were invited to take part, but they turned down the invitation. I agree he did some brave things, but also some very foolish, even disastrous things, when he had some power. Leslie
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Post by bescheid on Mar 15, 2006 14:14:14 GMT -7
Leslie
Gollies, I would never on this earth say or even think you are unpatriotic, this for sure!!! What a revelation though, to think of such a slap-in-the-face to former fighting men! I realize that my ethinics are nothing to brag of, but, darn. The Polish fighting men fought for both, their home land and for freedom, and the UK benefited from their contribution whilst man power was in short supply.
I am very sorry to hear of this; thank you Leslie for bringing this to light.
Well I would only suppose, this is a matter liken to what goes on behind the bed room door that is only whispered of.
Is it not just the shame though, that our heros from long past, could stay our heros and always stay the same. Our young men in the wars that will never grow old, but always shall be young, cherished withen the confines of our memories....
I once long ago, visited a cemetary of war dead, I do not wish to say the nationalities of the war dead, but whilst reading the names, dates of birth, date of death. That very saying of the young men that will never grow old, struck me as of a cold dagger withen my heart. I sat in a grass covered ditch, and cryed. It was so fortunant that I was alone, as of another to have watched, I would have been embarrassed to this very day.
Charles
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nancy
European
Posts: 2,144
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Post by nancy on Mar 15, 2006 17:21:04 GMT -7
I once thought Churchill was unassailable as a hero. But I began to hear little snippets - principally at the gossip level - about him and I had some doubts. Then just recently, as I have commented on the forum, I have read 'For Your Freedom and Ours' and there, laid out bluntly and I believe honestly are many failings he had, particularly with regard to the Polish nation during WWII. He was not alone, because Roosevelt was as bad, if not worse My parents spoke about FDR as though he was a real hero - but I am sure that they never knew the extent of his deplorable actions to the detriment of Poland. And in my teen years, I thought JFK was a hero - imagine my surprise to find out he was human, just like everyone else. Learning about the "feet of clay" of childhood heroes can sometimes be traumatic for us gullible, tender-hearted people!
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Post by bescheid on Mar 15, 2006 18:41:29 GMT -7
Nancy
I do not believe you were ever mislead in as much to your heros and also, might I say, my own..
What we tend to forget, is these people were in postions of power and responsiblity. But, they are still people with all the frailities that are prone to human beings.
JFK was also my hero, and still is. Not because of the loose gossip of him, but, because he choose to disreguard all the fears and self daught, to stand up in front of a crowd, and be a leader!!!
In private, a man in leadership may be a louse, a sneak, a drunkerd, but, when the call is made, this man will get up and lead the people with courage, a plan of action, and a will to transfer his will to the people to action..
To my self, this is a leader.
I still admire Sir. Winsten Churchel. I still will admire JFK. Because I was instilled by them by their courage and all that I lack.
Charles
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Post by jimpres on Mar 17, 2006 13:09:49 GMT -7
Nancy,
Your right Poland was disregarded at Yalta. Also Joe Kennedy JFK father was ambassador to England and said we should forget the Poles. Words from a famous bootlegger........ Mr. Joe K
Jim
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Post by kaima on Mar 17, 2006 19:28:41 GMT -7
You touch on a tender point with me. I feel we should NOT romanticise our heros in hisotry, but teach that they also had human weaknesses and failings that tehy overcame to attain their greatness. The idea of presenting someone as faultless is horrible! You then end up with disillusionment as Nancy did. We should let people (and kids) know that it is possible to overcome their weak points and attain great things.
Yet when i present this idea in public, I am most often shouted down for wanting to degrade our "heros".
Hero is a word that is hardly in my vocabulary. I would say Robert McNamara of the Johnson administration was my last one, though I still admire him and other people, I claim no heros.
Kai
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Post by hollister on Mar 23, 2006 11:09:15 GMT -7
Kai, you are my hero!
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