Red planet Mars

[sciwriter]

IMHO the 1952 movie "Red Planet Mars (1952)" offered a hint at this technology, and predicted the overthrow of Communism and religious revival in Russia, but the critics underplayed it. Carl

Based on on-line message:

An American scientist locates a WW2 German radio (Tesla technology?) that receives transmissions from Mars setting off widespread pandemonium on Earth. A revolution is staged by elderly Russian peasants who overthrow the Soviet government and replace it with a religious monarchy. An ex-Nazi (Operation Paper Clip?. While the admits to sending the messages himself, determined to rid the world of Capitalism. While the scientist and ex-Nazi argue, more messages are received from the transmitter, but this time the Martian says God is the ruler of Mars. Balderston, the author this movie previously worked on USA movie: "Bride of Frankenstein (Tesla technology?)."

Carl

____________________________

Red Planet Mars (1952)
[4 out of 5 stars] Not a Typical 1950s Anti-Commie
Movie, March 22, 2002
Reviewer: Jonathan Schaper (see
[Top 1000 Reviewer]more about me) from London,
Ontario Canada
Rival scientists from the USSR and the US are
engaged in a Contact-the-Martians Race. The
scientist from the US makes contact first (or does
he?) and those stereotypical 1950s commies (evil
vodka swilling atheists all) are upset because the
superior Martians with a perfect society are
Democratic Christians. So the USSR sets out to prove
it is all a hoax being conducted against the world,
including against the US government, by the american
scientist.

In an extremely interesting twist on the usual 1950s
sci-fi movie mindset, the originally thrilled US
government also becomes afraid and starts to
question its scientist's veracity and motives when
the Martians' promises of cheap energy, long life,
etc., for all humans on Earth begins to panic big
union and corporate interests (fuel companies,
pharmaceuticals, etc), and so the scientist also has
to fight against his own government trying to put a
gag on him (hey, they know where their campaign
contributions came from). Even "worse", I'm sure, is
the fact that the Martians appear to be Socialists.
This all helps make the film far more relevant to
today than most 1950s sci-fi since although the
"Communist scourge" of the USSR no longer exists,
rampant Capitalism is still a threat to Democracy.

[justjohn]

Carl,

I remember that movie. In 1952 I was 10 years old and believe I saw that.

[sciwriter]

Great movie! Starred Peter Graves Of Mission Impossible TV show.

[rdywenur]

I hear the new movie Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is really good with Robert Downey Jr and Val Kilmar. I can't wait to see it.

[kaima]

Just a few weeks back PBS had a feature on rockets and the race to space. They fialed tomention Goddard or I came too late tothe program, but they did go into the nazis and their missile program. This was the first time I ever heard an American broadcast admit that vonBraun was a nazi, SS, and major. So 55 years later some of the truth starts to emerge.

I wonder what Bush's expanded sectret files will reveal in 50 or 90 years...

Kai

[sciwriter]

Kai: Read this article. Thanks. Carl

NY TIMES

January 30, 2005
C.I.A. Said to Rebuff Congress on Nazi Files
By DOUGLAS JEHL

WASHINGTON, Jan. 29 - The Central Intelligence Agency is refusing to provide hundreds of thousands of pages of documents sought by a government working group under a 1998 law that requires full disclosure of classified records related to Nazi war criminals, say Congressional officials from both parties.

Under the law, the C.I.A. has already provided more than 1.2 million pages of documents, the vast majority of them from the archives of its World War II predecessor, the Office of Strategic Services. Many documents have been declassified, and some made public last year showed a closer relationship between the United States government and Nazi war criminals than had previously been understood, including the C.I.A.'s recruitment of war criminal suspects or Nazi collaborators.

For nearly three years, the C.I.A. has interpreted the 1998 law narrowly and rebuffed requests for additional records, say Congressional officials and some members of the working group, who also contend that that stance seems to violate the law.

These officials say the agency has sometimes agreed to provide information about former Nazis, but not about the extent of the agency's dealings with them after World War II. In other cases, it has refused to provide information about individuals and their conduct during the war unless the working group can first provide evidence that they were complicit in war crimes.

The agency's stance poses a sharp test between the C.I.A.'s deep institutional reluctance to make public details about any intelligence operations and the broad mandate set forth in the law to lift the veil about relationships between the United States government and Nazi war criminals.

The dispute has not previously been made public. Critics of the C.I.A.'s stance, including all three private citizens who are members of the working group, said they were disclosing the dispute now in hopes of resolving the impasse by March, when the working group's mandate is to expire.

"I think that the C.I.A. has defied the law, and in so doing has also trivialized the Holocaust, thumbed its nose at the survivors of the Holocaust and also at Americans who gave their lives in the effort to defeat the Nazis in World War II," said Elizabeth Holtzman, a former congresswoman from New York and a member of the group. "We have bent over backward; we have given them every opportunity to comply."

At the request of Senator Mike DeWine, Republican of Ohio, the Senate Judiciary Committee plans to hold a public hearing on the matter early next month, and is planning to call C.I.A. officials and members of the working group as witnesses, Congressional officials said.

A C.I.A. spokesman said the agency had already declassified and released 1.25 million pages of documents under the law, including those related to 775 different name files.

"The C.I.A. has not withheld any material identified in its files related to the commission of war crimes by officials, agents or collaborators of Nazi Germany," he said.

The spokesman acknowledged that the C.I.A. had refused to disclose other material "that does not relate to war crimes per se" and that the agency was working on a report to Congress to justify its actions under exemptions spelled out in the law.

A spokeswoman for the panel, formally known as the Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group, said it would not comment on the dispute. The group is led by a representative of the National Archives, and includes representatives of the C.I.A., the F.B.I., the Defense Department and other government agencies, and has taken no formal stand on the matter, people involved in the issue said.

But in interviews, all three public members of the group, including Ms. Holtzman; Richard Ben-Veniste, a Washington lawyer; and Thomas H. Baer, a former federal prosecutor, made plain their opposition to the C.I.A.'s position. Congressional officials said the three had a sympathetic hearing from Senator DeWine, a sponsor of the 1998 law, known as the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act.

The 1998 law that established the working group directed that it "locate, identify, inventory, recommend for declassification and make available to the public at the National Archives and Records Administration, all classified Nazi war criminal records of the United States."

Under the law, the heads of government agencies have the power to exempt from release nine categories of national security information. But to assert such exemptions, agency heads are required to submit a report to Congressional committees, a step the C.I.A. has not yet taken, the Congressional officials said.

"I can only say that the posture the C.I.A. has taken differs from all the other agencies that have been involved, and that's not a position we can accept," Mr. Ben-Veniste said. In a separate interview, Mr. Baer said: "Too much has been secret for too long. The C.I.A. has not complied with the statute."

A book, "U.S. Intelligence and the Nazis," that was released by the working group in May provided a partial picture of those dealings. It has shown that the American government worked closely with Nazi war criminals and collaborators, allowing many of them to live in the United States after World War II.

Historians who have studied the documents made public so far have said that at least five associates of the Nazi leader Adolf Eichmann, the architect of Hitler's campaign to exterminate Jews, had worked for the C.I.A. Eichmann, who was arrested by the Allies in 1945, escaped and fled to Argentina. He was captured by Israeli agents in 1960, tried and hanged. The records also indicate that the C.I.A. tried to recruit two dozen more war criminals or Nazi collaborators.

American officials have defended the recruiting of former Nazis as having been essential to gaining access to intelligence after World War II, particularly about the Soviet Union and its cold war allies. Among former Nazis who were given refuge in the United States was Wernher von Braun, the German scientist who developed the V-2 rocket in World War II for the Nazis and played a major role in the development of the American space program.

After World War II, the Allied powers who occupied Germany defined war crimes broadly, declaring the Nazi SS to be a criminal organization guilty of exterminating and persecuting Jews and killing prisoners of war and slave laborers. They identified as a war criminal anyone who was a principal, accessory to, or consented in the commission of war crimes, or anyone who was a member of an organization or group connected with the commission of such crimes.

Exactly how many pages of documents the C.I.A. is still withholding is not clear, according to people involved in the dispute. But they said that at minimum, they believed it amounted to hundreds of thousands of pages.

A report made public by the working group in 1999 said an initial survey by the C.I.A. estimated that more than two million pages of documents among records in the agency's files for the years 1947 to 1998 included "operational, personality, country, and project files; analytical products, source material, and biographic reports" related to Nazi war criminals. The agency estimated that an additional 2.1 million pages among the files of its predecessor organizations, including the O.S.S., from 1941 to 1947, could be covered by the group's mandate.

The group outlined its objections to the C.I.A.'s position in a letter sent to the agency in February 2004, according to Congressional officials. The group's mandate to examine intelligence documents related to the Nazi war criminals was to expire last year. But Congress agreed to extend it until the end of March 2005, in a step that Congressional officials from both parties said was intended in large part to allow more time to resolve the impasse.

[sciwriter]

Moreover…

IMO the PBS TV broadcast was a disappointment. The "investigators" did not follow the thread of any of the "scientific" research really anywhere, such as the use of all the Mengele-type "medical experiment" data which has become "standard" in the medical profession, for example. Medical papers cite this research as if it appeared out of thin air, unquestioningly. Astoundingly, the American Army doctors who were responsible for treating General Patton at a newly-created Army hospital in Germany after he was injured in a trumped-up auto accident actually administered belladonna (atropine sulfate) to him, which was derived from the Nazi medical experiments. Belladonna was used by SS doctors in the German medical clinics to murder over 400,000 "terminally ill" German citizens before Hitler even came to power. Atropine sulfate, mixed with heroin, was the Nazi "truth serum" given not only to captured Allied prisoners during the war, but was used on Nikola Tesla by the FBI in January, 1943 to extract information from him regarding the location of all his files and research materials. This Nazi concoction is used today and is called "Versaid" It produces the so-called "twilight-sleep" and was used on pregnant women during deliveries of babies in the US until it was pointed out that the belladonna was a dangerous neurotixin which was damaging newborn babies.

One of the most interesting omissions of the review was the tracking of 115 German scientists from Peenemunde to Alamogordo, New Mexico, and the tracking of von Braun to nearby Ft. Bliss, Texas. Von Braun was appointed the HEAD of US ARMY ORDINANCE in June, 1945, only days after the fall of the Third Reich! Meahwhile, the 115 scientists at Alamogordo were primarily involved in the continuation of the Nazi UFO program. Soon after the war at least 15,000 German technical and military intelligence specialists were transported to New Mexico---mostly White Sands---alone. This information is still classified.

The special on the bombings of Nazi dams failed to show one of the most important bombing missions, the one which blew the dam in Telemark, Norway which was the hydroelectric center which was used by Neils Bohr to produce the massive quantities of heavy water being shipped to Germany. Norway was the ideal place to do such work since the water there is aeons old coming from ancient icebergs and polar ice which contains more heavy water since the natural evaporation of water leaves behind more of the "heavy" molecules. This water containing the higher heavy water content was frozen in the polar ice which made a convenient source of heavy water which could be extracted at the hydroelectric dam located at Telemark.

This contrasts with the phony information that the Allies were "astounded" by the evidence of the Nazi nuclear program which according to the review they knew little or nothing about. If that were true, then why did they bother to bomb the dam at Telemark and bring Bohr to Los Alamos only days after the fall of Germany?

The special noted the use of a lot of the German-produced "uranium" in the American atomic bomb program but that still leaves the interesting question, "How could this have helped the Manhattan Project only a couple of weeks before the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima/Nagasaki?" The truth of the matter is that, with the fall of Nazi Germany around May, which followed almost immediately the Trinity Site nuclear test at White Sands, the British abducted Bohr and he was brought to Los Alamos with two Nazi-built atom bombs from Norway---still with the Nazi markings on them---so that Bohr could repair the detonators in the bombs which he knew about---probably sabotage by him---preparatory to the bombs being dropped on Japan. The Manhattan Project had no "portable" detonators to detonate the bombs from the air, as the Trinity test used a tower-mounted primitive bomb which was detonated by hundreds of cables connected to the "guns" which simultaneously fired their plutonium projectiles into the core of the bomb. This kind of weapon was nowhere near the sophisticated bomb which the U.S. acquired from Neils Bohr at Telemark, Norway, and was at least a couple of years BEHIND the Nazi bomb program.

Let's face it, Heisenberg remained silent for so long because he was ordered to be silent by his captors. Either that or he was collaborating with the Allies all along.

The Germans produced so much of the most highly-refined plutonium with the gas diffusion process that the Russians not only had to dilute the plutonium to use it but never had to produce any themselves for years. Today, the German plutonium is still being used in nuclear reactors. No one has ever equalled the purity of the WW II German plutonium. Oh yeah! The Germans didn't have any nuclear program! Los Alamos has illigitimately used the purloined credit for the German technology by pretending that they had none all these years, and has falsely claimed that the bombs dropped on Japan were built at Los Alamos. That of course helped them to obtain the massive funding for their projects..

The most glaring omission of the "review" was the complete absence of any "saucer-shaped" aircraft or reference to any of the "foo-fighters" or "fliegende Untertasse" ("flying saucers") which were sited by Allied bombers and fighters over Germany from 1943 'til 1945, a period of two years. Meanwhile, there is so much disinformation on this subject that the waters are muddied almost unbelievably..

Finally, the review ignored the fact that the "coming Cold War" was the result of the underhanded dealings which the U.S. and Britain had with Nazi war criminals who, if they had any technical information, were given complete immunity from prosecution. In fact, as documented by Cristopher Simpson in his book, "Blowback", it was the Nazi intelligence apparatus which hyped the US into the unnecessary cold war for over 50 years. I have always considered this mistake to be a sort of revenge on the US for winning the war. One of the things which the review certainly never touched was the fact that von Braun was in New Mexico in 1936-38 working with Dr. Robert Goddard developing the rocket technology (which was incorporated into the V-2 program at Peenemunde and into the Walthers turbine and rocket engine mentioned) invented by my friend Peter van Dresser.

They didn't even scratch the surface.

[sciwriter]

Incidentally, the following link is very interesting, bearing on what I have maintained all along, that the Valery Plame/CIA identity leak had to come from the top:

www.tomflocco.com/fs/CiaPlameCaseIndictments.htm

[bescheid]

Hi Carl,

At the first, I was not to add to your excellent artical, but, then why not, it begged to be added to.

Quite some years back (perhaps not so long ago) When you were first in the military, or similar orgainzation. You took an oath of the United States, complete with a back ground displaying the American flag.

Part of that oath was as follows: And correct me if I am wrong.

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absulutly and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of where or which I have heretofore been subject or cituzen; that I will support and defend the constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enimies, foreign and domestic.

The above was only a portion of the entire oath, but it is self evident as written.

The artical filed with the NY times by Mr. Douglas Jehl was interesting and of course factual. As written. The artical filed in a public news print for open sale, is by it's very nature, designed as a commerical vehicle to sell papers, it is just fundalmental.

The CIA name list mentioned by Mr. Jehl is infact, a reality, it does exist. Along with the name list, is a list of names currantly on the CIA watch list. It is all part and partial to public disclosure laws.

We must bear in mind though, that during the post war years at closing and end of the war in 1945. The United States was the spear point into the Russian Soviet might and muscle for world domination.

Those were tough years to deal with out currant, accurate tools in intelligence personnel and information. The most obvious solution was all ready in place, it was previously set up as an efficient and well oiled intelligence programme. Prominant Soviet leadership, plans, information was gathered and in place to be used and had been used for some years.

The attention and resources were then shifted to the war time German Intelligence Service. And for why not? These people were out of work, they were highly trained and as such, when recruited, took the same oath of allegiance that you took, I took. It is all in the book published by: The U.S. Department of Justice and of the Department of Immigration and Naturalization Service.

www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/

The above url should by it's nature, provide the information of referance pertaining to this subject.

Charles