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Post by troubledgoodangel on Sept 26, 2007 10:06:27 GMT -7
When two nations are quarreling, the prerequisite for peace is understanding your adversary and then smoothing over the differences. The differences must somehow be worked out, first, and there are no shortcuts, and no gimmics. Watching the confrontation between President Ahmadinejad and Dr. Bollinger at Columbia University, I was perplexed at first, but after a long reflection here is the conclusion I came to: the encounter between these two people was a classic clash of civilizations that cannot find common ground! Mr. Ahmadinejad, raised in the Zoroastrian milieu, thinks in terms of evil and good spirits battling each other! The "facts," which Mr. Bollinger spoke of, mean nothing to such a mind! What matters, and I emphasize this, are the spiritual "root causes" behind the facts! Remember how many times Mr. Ahmadinejad used this phrase? Many! And remember how well he outlined his "spiritual foundations" in a long preliminary speech, before he answered questions? Mr. Ahmadinejad, according to his Iranian mind-set, wanted sincerely to know, which "spirits," the Spenta Mainyu (good), or the Angra Mainyu (evil), were behind the Holocaust, the occupation of Palestine, and the September 11 massacre! This way of thinking, I submit, proved (in the confrontation) infinitely superior to that of Mr. Bollinger, for whom the spiritual "root causes" were meaningless, as they are meaningless to the Western civilization resting on might! This is where the civilizations have been clashing badly for centuries, when it comes to the evaluation of history! America has to give credit to the ancient Persian culture for being much more meticulous in learning from past. But America must also know, why a person like Mr. Ahmadinajad is able "to speculate" (I am sure he does), that the Jews "brought the Holocaust upon themselves," and that the Americans "brought the September 11 upon themselves, by being on the wrong side of the spirit, morally"! This is how the Persian mind thinks, ignoring the suffering aspect (the facts), but seizing upon the root causes of all suffering! But this is not all. On top of these conceptual mine field, there comes the age-old ruthless struggle of the less powerful against the more powerful, in this instance Iran against the United States! This struggle has a dynamic of its own: the expectation of the vindication from God! Iran, certain of its rightheousness, feels spiritually on the right side, to snatch the America's power! This, however, is sought differently by the Iranians, than it is defended by the Americans, and this creates an additional confusion of languages! The Iranians seek power by proving the Great Power "wrong" - even as the "Great Satan." The Americans, on their part, try to defend it with military might, alonside with the "facts of their rightness," dubious in many instances, but unassailable in others. To win, America must further build up her spiritual and moral assets, for this clash is spiritual and moral in nature, and hence so dangerous. In the battles of spirit, both sides are always found wanting, but it is better that we know what we are against, so that we can focus more forcefully on what is spiritually right` in the eyes of God, as our defense and as our weapon. And it doesn't really matter whether we call Him Yahweh, the Heavenly Father, or Allah or Ahura Mazda. But we better be morally right, for this alone will be the deciding factor against cultures as that of Mr. Ahmadinejad! I hope that America gets the message.
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Post by leslie on Sept 26, 2007 15:19:59 GMT -7
Troubledgoodangel and Charles
I may be being my usual thick self, but what has this topic got to do with a Polish Culture forum? What am I missing?
Leslie
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Post by rdywenur on Sept 26, 2007 16:03:47 GMT -7
Ohhh oh...you boys are in trouble now. Forum Police ;D ;D ;D
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Post by bescheid on Sept 26, 2007 17:47:48 GMT -7
Excellent observation my sir. For I was negligent in notice of the wrongly placed topic. I am very confident Mr. Troublegoodangel will at first notice, make the proper corrections.
My addition has been deleted for information not proper.
Thank you for your notice.
Charles
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Post by freetobe on Sept 26, 2007 21:35:09 GMT -7
another rant by tga and good for you leslie
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Sept 27, 2007 2:50:01 GMT -7
I have to disagree with the notion that "Poland is an island separate from the world" - a notion that some of you seem to defend on this forum. The world has changed dramatically in the last decades! Poland, today, is a friend of the United States. Many of us Poles have a dual citizenship, the Polish-American! As friends of the United States - Polish-Americans, and occasionally Jews of Polish descent - we feel that we have a duty to offer the best advice to our American friends! I, for one, being of a noble descent, think in this way! Poland, being closer to Iran than the U.S., and being deeply involved in dangerous peace-keeping missions in the area, has a lot to lose if America makes wrong decisions in Iran! The millions of Polish-Americans in Chicago and elsewhere know that the dollar began its dive since the September 11 tragedy, and that it is now at its lowest point in the modern history! If America makes a wrong move in Iran, the dollar will fall further, and millions of Polish-Americans will suffer throughout the world! But this is not all. As Catholics, which almost all of us are, we owe a sound moral advise to the world powers about the state of the world! But even the few Jews among us should not be regarded by anyone as "islands." These Jews of Polish descent have a keen interest in what America does in Iran - the survival of the State of Israel may depend upon it! So, I wouldn't be so hyped-up about a few of us who have the courage and responsibility to be good citizens of the world, good Poles, and good Catholics on your forum!
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Post by hollister on Sept 27, 2007 3:10:09 GMT -7
Before we all get our undies in a bunch here and go jumping to conclusions .... I think Leslie was just asking why this was posted in the Poland only part of the forum and not in the section reserved for discussions not directly related to Poland. I do not think that anyone here thinks that Poland is not separate from the rest of the world - in fact it is that thought that grounds this entire forum. After much discussion it was felt that there was a real need to maintain a separation between discussions that had to to do directly with Poland and those that did not but may be of interest to forum members. That is why the forum underwent a huge reformatting (Thanks again Scatts) and while we are not perfect perhaps in the distinction, we are trying. I do not have the powers necessary to move the discussion to the proper discussion area but those that do may do so. The topic is important and I am sure one that forum members are interested in and will want to read, think about and possibly comment on with their own thoughts.
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Post by rdywenur on Sept 27, 2007 5:53:29 GMT -7
I think the Problem here lies with someone being too quick to post, only reading the Bold type and not explanantion of what should be posted. When Scatts realligned the forum we were asked to please post in proper forum heading. For some it might take a bit getting used to as old habits are hard to break. This one clerly says underneath "related to Poland" and there is another one for Curent Affairs where I believe it should have started. Thre are a few times though where I myself have a post that I am just not quite sure where it rightfully belongs.
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Sept 27, 2007 8:25:28 GMT -7
Certainly Hollister and Rdywenur are just right: I did not read the fine print, "and Poland-related topics," to mean that things that I think are related, may not be seen as related by others. Freetobe, though, went too far when he engaged in denigration and insult. These are the things that really hurt the forum, and Polish culture, not an innocent technical oversight by the bloggers!
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Post by bescheid on Sept 27, 2007 8:44:09 GMT -7
I agree with Chris with her assessment, the topic was simply mistakenly placed in the wrong section, ok, this may be corrected by key board of one with the access to do so.
In as much to the content. I have not read one comment of the validity of the presentation. It is true, I deleted my addition for reason it was not conductive of my standards and as so, was destroyed.
The presentation presented by Mr. Troublegoodangel was very accurate. Almost to the point of an intelligence report. For he touched upon some very valid points of differences and it is by these differences that wars have/are fought. For war is simply the continuation of the process of Diplomacy. For once the war is fought to the natural conclusion, then the process of diplomatic consultation then returns.
For this very reason, is the diligence of most foreign office personnel, that they be fully cognoscente of the mores and requirements of the host/target nation they will be stationed at.
Off topic question: What are the laws pertaining to dual citizenship in Poland? Of acceptance of Polish citizenship, the person must give up a former citizenship other then specific exemptions?
Charles
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Sept 27, 2007 9:06:26 GMT -7
It is OK with me if someone knowledgeable with the computers, moves this post to General Discussions. I have neither knowledge, or capability to do so.
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Post by rdywenur on Sept 27, 2007 9:35:36 GMT -7
You do not need a moderator to move your posts if you have found they are not where they should be. Simply go to the original post. Click Modify, This will reopen your post. Highlight all text and click on copy (right click with mouse and select copy) then go to the correct place the thread should have started and proceed to post......IE new thread...opens box to type and right click again and paste your text. This will now have moved original post and then click on post reply....your thread is now done.
Step 2 ...go to the old thread and click on delete where your wrong post is.....now all is complete.
Please also note that do this you must be logged in the forum.
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Post by troubledgoodangel on Sept 27, 2007 10:05:42 GMT -7
Thank you for the technical advise. What I really meant, is that I personally see no wrong in the post being where it is now. If however most of you think otherwise, please let me know, and I will move the post, if this cannot be done from your side.
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Post by bescheid on Sept 27, 2007 11:57:19 GMT -7
Please kind sir:
If to place your post into approved proper location as commonly advised, to more or less keep the peace. As perhaps that of Chris, to cut and to past so as not risk loss of your work. Then under heading of {General Discussion} sub-heading/Brain food, paste body of subject matter into place as proper placement.
I like your presentation and wish for only that you keep it intact. Rather of what you do wish is of course to your self to decide upon.
{after this all, now I am not so sure of my English grasp is good or not so good with proper communication}
Charles
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Post by Jaga on Sept 27, 2007 12:03:20 GMT -7
Hello Troubleangel. The topic you started is very interesting and it is very important to discuss, but since it refers to the US and Iran I moved it to another section. Please, do not feel discouraged since it is very important to talk about these issues. We just change its placement here
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