Historical clothing in Poland

[Jaga]

from the same website:

www.stankiewicz.e.pl/index.php?kat=10&sub=64

[piwo]

Interesting stuff. Wish I didn't have to keep going to the online translators...Well, maybe someday.

[kaima]

Jaga,

I have discussed historical clothing with Slovaks and no one I know can come up with such clear drawings of the styles of the times as you present here.

Can you give a rough background on the photos? When were the drawings made, all in one period, (say 1850), where theymight reflect a bit of romanticizing and invention, or are they based on old wood cuts and documentation? Are diferent parts of Poland represented? I will assume that as today, a style in NE Poland may not refelect contemporary style in SE... although they would indicate the general style... That last reason is why I believe in getting to know our neighbors. Their culture, dress and way of life helps indicate where our development may have been at the same time, thus helping fill inthegaps in any writtie or painted histories.

Thanks

Kai

Also, is there any list of the different "ranks", social status or occupations of the people shown? Some can be clearly inferred, but others are guesswork to my unpracticed eye.

[Jaga]

Kai,

"wloscianie" means "farmers",

"chlopi" basically peasants

"zydzi" = Jews

these historical robes pictures were done by Jan Matejko, famous Polish painter:
culture.polishsite.us/articles/art137.html

frankly, I am not sure exactly what is a difference between "wloscianin" and Chlop" - I believe that wloscianin always owned some property, maybe there were even some poorer nobles among Wloscianin

The fragment which goes with the article describes the robes wore by XVIIIth century farmers

[kaima]

Thanks, Jaga. That is what I was hoping to hear from you. I am sharing it with two Slvoak forums where all topics come up now and then...

Kai

[Jaga]

I just saw this website completely by accident searching "chalupas". I think, it is wonderful but only in Polish

[nancy]

This is indeed an interesting website, thanks, Jaga.

Frank posted the same pictures a few months ago, I am not sure if it was the same website or a different one. At the time, Pawian commented that he did not know how anyone knew what the old styles of dress were like and the painter must have made up some of the details.

I don't know about that, but there has been a lot of research published on Polish folk art and dress. I have found a lot of interesting books and publications, mostly through eBay. There was a whole series of books about regional costumes and folk arts published in the 1950s-1960s in Poland and today there are some really gorgeous picture books. My library keeps growing!

[Jaga]

Nancy,

you are probably right. There were some photographs posted by Frank. Matejko - who did these drawings was a historical painter. He was a celebrity in Poland and I hope he knew what he was doing. I am pretty sure there are some old books, pictures which helped him to have the idea about the cloths although I also have some doubts whether everything is historically correct.

I do not have too many books with costumes but we have some links to the websites with costumes: culture.polishsite.us/links-culture.htm
I guess, we should add also this website

[kaima]

Second last tiem in Budapest I picked up some excellent history books on the culture over the ages, and the qualtiy of the history seems top notch. There is a lack of axe-grinding or driving a political point home, there is none of the ethnic superiority that adds such a chauveninstic atmosphere and thus limits teh faith you can place in the authors. This all seems a product of the post cold war atmosphere.

Best of all, they honestly state what is known and what is not known of the customs and costume of the different times, and of the different classes of dress/styles of living.

From all that I agree that the painter must have taken some artistic license now and then in Poland (he certainly must in doing the same in Hungary, or your records are far better than ours!), but My personal guess is that his representations are the best we have, given the knowledge at his time. Any old drawings would often be woodcuts or copper etchings, and tehy do give some good hints of the times.

I suppose a critical eye today could look at the drawings to see what he does NOT show - say minor gentry shown in all but one period indicates a gap. Showing peasant dress only from Greater Poland may indicate that no drawings survive from Little poland at that time - but they drawings shown would indicate the general fashion of dress of the day.

Just some ideas. I would be interstined in other comments and observations. I have watched for this for several years, as I fugrued our ancestors did not run around in polka dresses and knee pants forever..., but that is the common "folk costume" most often shown!

Kai - fully dressed.

[nancy]

Everytime I see illustrations of fancy costumes, I suspect they are clothes for church or special occasions. People out working in the fields or the mines or wherever certainly would not wear the beautiful skirts, vest, trousers and capes etc. that we see in the pictures of "peasant costumes."

Also note the barefoot peasants in some of the paintings. I think that is true - I was surprised to hear from my cousins that at least in the 1950s they mostly went barefoot and carried their boots/shoes to church to put them on at the last minute.

[nancy]

I found the old thread we had on these costumes. Near the end of the thread, Pawian wrote:

Kai, the picture of Polish peasants of 16 century is not really a faithful visual representation of what they wore at the time. This picture was made by Jan Matejko, the greatest Polish history painter. www.stankiewicz.e.pl/index.php?kat=10&sub=64 and scroll down the page to get more.

But Matejko lived in 19 century, and when he painted pictures of the past, he had to guess a lot. E.g. he painted portraits of early Polish Kings, but they are not real, I mean, these portraits only show what Matejko THOUGHT THEY SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

The same with peasants. Going as far back as 16 century (years 1500-1600 !!!) we cannot be 100% sure these peasants wore such things. We can only guess it, and that`s what Matejko did, judging on the traditional costumes that Polish peasants used to wear through centuries. Polish village has always been very traditional and conservative, it was partly a result of poverty, so we can suppose that 19 costumes were much alike costumes from 16 century.


The pictures below were all painted in 19 century and present the costumes of the epoch:
www.stankiewicz.e.pl/obrazy/77.jpg
www.stankiewicz.e.pl/obrazy/62.jpg
www.stankiewicz.e.pl/obrazy/1.jpg
www.stankiewicz.e.pl/obrazy/51.jpg
www.stankiewicz.e.pl/obrazy/50.jpg


And there are more. They all come from the same website about Polish village:
www.stankiewicz.e.pl/index.php?kat=10&sub=54 and scroll down to see pictures.