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Post by hollister on Jul 25, 2006 17:02:02 GMT -7
This is the title of an article in today's NYT. (part of a 2-part series today 25.07.06 and tomorrow 26.07.06) The article discusses the emergence of a movement toward a nationalistic Roman Catholic political party in rural Poland (yes they talk about Radio Maryja). My question - is the media (reporters and papers etc...) seeking this movement out and writing about it and making it into a real movement - or is it truly what is happening in Poland? What is gained by Poland stressing this aspect of itself to the world? But what may be a more interesting question - what do people outside of Poland gain by seeing Poland in such a light? I just think it is interesting that the publication of Gross's book and his shrillness about Polish anti-semitism and as evidenced in the comments section I pointed to yesterday - many, many people seem to want to desperately hold onto the idea of Poland as a backward, anti-semitic, politically naive place. Am I missing something? Update: If you want to read the article Carl has posted it under the News forum at |
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Post by sciwriter on Jul 25, 2006 20:25:48 GMT -7
Hollister, my late father was Jewish and born in USA. He would throw Gross' book in the garbage. He believed, as I do, in mutual cooperation & respect of diverse cultures for survival of the human race. "Let Poland be Poland," as the song goes. Thanks. Carl
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Post by sciwriter on Jul 26, 2006 12:35:16 GMT -7
Poland is questioning its place in the world and realizes that it must work independently to some degree, sovereignty included, and that could work its way into the EU which is likely to become a looser union if more nations embrace their own roots.
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Post by bescheid on Jul 26, 2006 16:05:20 GMT -7
Hollie
I attempted to access the article of Carl's with the New York times. I must say this of that da--n publication, those folks are constituted of the American dollar sign. In other words, it is always unaccessible with out a subscription.
Only of a comment from my side of the mountain: as well known, and most likely very unappreciated, I am non Polish. And as such, my comments and information perhaps is not conductive of Polish interest as exampled by our Leslie of the misty Isles {he most likely will not be able to figure that one out}, as my views are exampled by my personal West German back ground and American present life.
I am from a very bigoted back ground, my elders were absolutely anti Jewish and they hated communist people. But, this is what gave to me, my early understanding of such things.
But, may I suggest only a small bit of a suggestion: Poland is what ever Poland wishes to be....If the general feeling is fear of success, this so it will be. But, the actual question though, is, what do the people want?
Politics is a bit of dog crap, a dodge to escape responsibility. It is always the lay folks that are the answer to any question.
What is in the pockets of the lady of the house as she goes shopping for her family. What is the amount so imprinted on the money cheque {scheck} of her man, as he comes home from his work.
The national character of any nation, is reflected by the people that make up that nation.
We are as we suggest, if a people feel they are Superior, then the nation will reflect that.
Charles
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Post by pieter on Jul 26, 2006 18:36:25 GMT -7
Hollie I attempted to access the article of Carl's with the New York times. I must say this of that da--n publication, those folks are constituted of the American dollar sign. In other words, it is always unaccessible with out a subscription. Only of a comment from my side of the mountain: as well known, and most likely very unappreciated, I am non Polish. And as such, my comments and information perhaps is not conductive of Polish interest as exampled by our Leslie of the misty Isles {he most likely will not be able to figure that one out}, as my views are exampled by my personal West German back ground and American present life. I am from a very bigoted back ground, my elders were absolutely anti Jewish and they hated communist people. But, this is what gave to me, my early understanding of such things. But, may I suggest only a small bit of a suggestion: Poland is what ever Poland wishes to be....If the general feeling is fear of success, this so it will be. But, the actual question though, is, what do the people want? Politics is a bit of dog crap, a dodge to escape responsibility. It is always the lay folks that are the answer to any question. What is in the pockets of the lady of the house as she goes shopping for her family. What is the amount so imprinted on the money cheque {scheck} of her man, as he comes home from his work. The national character of any nation, is reflected by the people that make up that nation. We are as we suggest, if a people feel they are Superior, then the nation will reflect that. Charles Bescheid, I am from a very bigoted back ground too, my elders were absolutely anti German and always distrusted Russians and people of a working class background (because they had proletarian customs and habbits and were probably reds). They hated communism and Socialism. And that was in the cold war. My father did'nt liked Japanese and Irish people either. So for me too this is what gave to me, my early understanding of such things. But my own experiance in life changed my views, because the times changed, and people changed. The Germans and Japanese were not the enemy anymore, and not all Russians are unreliable thughs. Some Socialists were good guys, maybe a little bit naieve or to ideolgical. I had nothing to hate Irish people for, so I formed my own opinions and belief. Not in an Existentialist way, but surely in an independant way. It is not easy to choose and go your own way, but on the long term it is the better way, and in the end you get the respect of your family, friends and colleages, people you care for. They are the reason for your existance, and you a small add to theirs. Pieter |
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Post by bescheid on Jul 26, 2006 20:01:02 GMT -7
Pieter
You know, I was over taken by your foresight and personal experience gained from your early life, then your own observations whilst maturing as your self.
You are an artist and as with these skills, very observant of your surroundings and of details most folks would let go un-noticed. It would be a shame if you are not a teacher. To pass on at the very least, some of those observation skills to others.
It is easy to place blame on others that may seem to be of lesser then our selves. It is also very easy to pass judgment on others with their appearance, personality and defects. It is so easy, on occasion, I also have caught my self in this same trap. It hurts a little then to think that my self would think of prejudice against some one else. But then, I would only suppose this is the weaknesses of being human, frailty and all.
My personal defense against this type of damaging self talk is: To think how I would feel if I were to hear my own thoughts thinking these prejudiced thoughts against my self in the same situation.
The other defense I still use against damaging self talk, is to look for some thing interesting in the other person. Most all people have some thing to offer, it is just recognizing it. It may be a hobby, or skill of a sort some times within the course of conversation, it is discovery of a shared interest.
These areas of interaction have always been easy for my self. I never lost the child sensitivity to surroundings and sensitivity of perception of the feelings emitted from others. Sounds silly, but it is true.
Pieter, I meant nothing by this, but I removed my previous post to you in German. A re-read of it found many mistakes in spelling and grammar. Time seems to remove what ever intelligence we try to maintain, or at least it would so seem. {just must get over the old habit of removing the paper trail}
Charles
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Post by pieter on Jul 27, 2006 2:17:59 GMT -7
Pieter You know, I was over taken by your foresight and personal experience gained from your early life, then your own observations whilst maturing as your self. You are an artist and as with these skills, very observant of your surroundings and of details most folks would let go un-noticed. It would be a shame if you are not a teacher. To pass on at the very least, some of those observation skills to others. It is easy to place blame on others that may seem to be of lesser then our selves. It is also very easy to pass judgment on others with their appearance, personality and defects. It is so easy, on occasion, I also have caught my self in this same trap. It hurts a little then to think that my self would think of prejudice against some one else. But then, I would only suppose this is the weaknesses of being human, frailty and all. My personal defense against this type of damaging self talk is: To think how I would feel if I were to hear my own thoughts thinking these prejudiced thoughts against my self in the same situation. The other defense I still use against damaging self talk, is to look for some thing interesting in the other person. Most all people have some thing to offer, it is just recognizing it. It may be a hobby, or skill of a sort some times within the course of conversation, it is discovery of a shared interest. These areas of interaction have always been easy for my self. I never lost the child sensitivity to surroundings and sensitivity of perception of the feelings emitted from others. Sounds silly, but it is true. Pieter, I meant nothing by this, but I removed my previous post to you in German. A re-read of it found many mistakes in spelling and grammar. Time seems to remove what ever intelligence we try to maintain, or at least it would so seem. {just must get over the old habit of removing the paper trail} Charles Charles, Thank you for your kind reply and I think of you as a kind person, as an individual living in the N-W of the USA, with an affiliation with Western-Germany (Bremerhafen). Fortunately I see a new positive selfawareness taking in that West-Germany which is so precious to you, the Bundespatriotismus I was talking about, during and after the World Championship and the influence of Germany in the world. I am not an easy person in the Netherlands, can be complicated because of the layers of history and interest, but in the same time I am a ordinary human being as anybody else. As an artist I should use these skills more to be able to take myself serious and being taken seriously by the outside world, and I hope that I can be a teacher for my social environment. Being a real teacher in the present school system would be not my preference, because of the attitude of the present pupils and the level of the school system. There is not enough disciplin and respect for teachers in the Netherlands nowadays. "My personal defense against this type of damaging self talk is: To think how I would feel if I were to hear my own thoughts thinking these prejudiced thoughts against my self in the same situation." This sounds like the biblical saying; “ Do to others as you would have them do to you.” (Luke 6:31) and " What you do not want others to do to you, do not do to others." -Confucius (ca. 551–479 BCE) |
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