nathanael
Cosmopolitan
: “Die Wahrheit macht frei und ist das Fundament der Einheit (John Paul II)
Posts: 636
|
Post by nathanael on Aug 13, 2008 9:16:40 GMT -7
God help the people of Georgia. Russia has once again shown her ugly imperialistic face. NATO, and the U.S. have once again shown that both of them are paper tigers! Georgia is now begging China for help, as the only Superpower! If China helps Georgia where President Bush stumbled, American supremacy in the world is over. And, what about President Bush's assurances to Poland? As a Pole, I have a stake in knowing! Will Bush protect the missile defense shield, or not? This is infamy! Where is Ms. Condoleezza Rice? Where is Mr. Bill Gates, the Secretary of Defense? Should they not be now in Georgia shielding with their bodies if need be their only true Democratic Ally? I am sickened with all this falsehood and powerlessness and inertia, sickened to my very being! Is Vladimir Putin now free to do what he wants, without the United Nations saying a word? Georgia keeps asking, "Where is President Bush"? Where is he?!
|
|
|
Post by wayneprice on Aug 13, 2008 10:06:22 GMT -7
Nathanael,
First US Air Force aircraft is on the ground in Tbilisi with humanitarian aid as I type this. US Secretary of State will be there tomorrow.
Wayne
|
|
nathanael
Cosmopolitan
: “Die Wahrheit macht frei und ist das Fundament der Einheit (John Paul II)
Posts: 636
|
Post by nathanael on Aug 14, 2008 5:55:59 GMT -7
As a Pole, and a U.S. citizen, I find this "too little too late" action insufficient! I had a dream this morning, in which Condie Rice was applying a lotion to the wounds of Georgia (in the dream a young woman with stripes on her wrists). She was lying with her back upwards, writing someting in a diary, and a Saakashvili-looking young man was also there. That's what Condoleezza Rice is going to do in Tbilisi, to commiserate Georgia and to shed tears, together! And this is not enough for the "greatest superpower in the world"! The position of Russia as the Bully of its satellite nations is indefensible. Anyone who tries to defend a bully does not deserve even to be heard! I lived under Hitler, was educated under Stalin, and I know the slavery and oppression that Yalta treaty had brought! It's too later to attach blame to Roosevelt, for he is long dead. But God forbid that Yalta is ever repeated because of mindless people who continue to see no evil and hear no evil in Russia!
08:08:16 08/14/2008Nathanael
|
|
|
Post by jimpres on Aug 14, 2008 6:57:15 GMT -7
Nathanael,
I totally agree with you that there is no defense for the bully, Russia in this case. And Putin knows we will not do anything to back up the Georgian's other then send aid to them. How we engage in this conflict is yet to be seen. Bush is a lame duck and will not do much. Jim
|
|
|
Post by wayneprice on Aug 14, 2008 7:27:03 GMT -7
Another thought might be that since his is a lame duck, he might actually DO something! What has he politically got to loose?
|
|
|
Post by Atlantis5 on Aug 14, 2008 8:33:31 GMT -7
Nathanael, I totally agree with you that there is no defense for the bully, Russia in this case. And Putin knows we will not do anything to back up the Georgian's other then send aid to them. How we engage in this conflict is yet to be seen. Bush is a lame duck and will not do much. Jim Jim Excellent point of fact. There are some issues in concerns of Mr. Bush. 1} The curant conflict with the Georgian issue is not a threat to America or vested interest. 2} Mr. Bush needs very much Russian assistance in another issue not of Europe. 3} Mr. Bush owns some very high kalibor cannons, but is short of proper ammunition. 4} At present, Mr. Bush has some issues with his AirForce. But, wait, there is more. At present, Georgia is only a beginning, I would tend to think, there will be more Eastern states to feel the cold wind of the North as it blows. Summer is beginning to grey, and fall is to be a neu born to come, and winter is the next corner. Guess where the heating gas {Earth gas} originates? The Polish goverment is very much aware of this, and as so, are stiring it up whilst the moment is at hand. 5} With a portion of American foreign policy {the portion that is not advertised} is the policy of: U.S. Foreign Policy and Regime Instabilty. 6} This is to be countered by the Russian Federation of policy {what was the Amrican president with the "New Deal"?} in this stead, is to come:- New World Order- What is nice with this, is: We have Poland between us and Russia. The Americans do not care, they have half a world of seporation between them and Russia, with so far, the conflicts of Europe has little to do as a threat to America. I will expand upon this with two additional threads under differant title from our new services. Charles
|
|
|
Post by jimpres on Aug 14, 2008 10:17:03 GMT -7
Charles, 1. True this conflict is no threat to the US, just our word we would help Georgia. And we should. 2. You are correct Bush needs Putin for Iran, however, I don't think Putin will help there. 3. The US is stretched thin but we have some things to fire, out of the G8, no admittance to world trade. We are back to the cold war. Putin does not care about names he will take what he wants for now. 4. Not sure about what issues Bush has with the air force, explain Charles. Yes, the Bear will do lots of damage before it retires and hibernates again. 5. Yes, the US does have a back door to many things in foreign policy. 6. All I can say is once KGB always KGB and it is now showing in spades. Yes, poor Poland is in the middle again. In my humble opinion there will lots of rhetoric from many and no substance.
Jim
|
|
|
Post by Atlantis5 on Aug 14, 2008 12:08:57 GMT -7
Charles, 1. True this conflict is no threat to the US, just our word we would help Georgia. And we should. 2. You are correct Bush needs Putin for Iran, however, I don't think Putin will help there. 3. The US is stretched thin but we have some things to fire, out of the G8, no admittance to world trade. We are back to the cold war. Putin does not care about names he will take what he wants for now. 4. Not sure about what issues Bush has with the air force, explain Charles. Yes, the Bear will do lots of damage before it retires and hibernates again. 5. Yes, the US does have a back door to many things in foreign policy. 6. All I can say is once KGB always KGB and it is now showing in spades. Yes, poor Poland is in the middle again. In my humble opinion there will lots of rhetoric from many and no substance. Jim Jim Reference of #6: Yes, so true, every thing changes, but every thing stays the same--sound familiar? This is our saying within civil service department: {elected officials come, and they go, but our service stays the same,,,now return to your work,,,, Reference of #4: Of this, you must suffer the entirety, for I have no transferal url, sorry...not of mention in body of this: an addendum: Within the body of financing of this programme, were additional enhancements built in for up-grading for additional use by home land security and related agencies. With this loss, as of others, including that of which follows, the tanker contract controversy between Boeing Aircraft and Airbus of France for replacement of the aging KC-135 tanker aircraft programme. With this, is the mounting cost estimates of continuance of extensive maintenance requirements of each unit {KC-135} per/hour operation of the aging tanker fleet. Due to mistakes given in specifications as provided of each prospective contractor, there the differences were not noted until preference was given to Airbus of France. Upon discovery of these short-comings of poisoned waters, Boeing successfully used local elected representatives for blockage of the sale. Now the process must be re-initiated from base to final contract offer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Published: Thursday, August 14, 2008 WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon this week delayed and may kill the Air Force's nascent Cyberspace Command, according to a memo obtained by The Associated Press. This comes as Russia used a major computer network attack to begin its assault on Georgia. The service's Cyberspace Command is meant to coordinate computer network defense and, more controversially, offensive attacks on enemy networks. The goal, according to senior officials, is to be able to take control of adversary computer networks to thwart attacks or otherwise influence their behavior -- either with or without that adversary realizing it. The Russian computer takedown served the same purpose as a traditional air attack on enemy radars and communications antennae, said Michael Wynne, the former U.S. Air Force Secretary who made cyberwar a central mission of the Air Force. "The Russians just shot down the government command nets so they could cover their incursion," said Wynne. "This was really one of the first aspects of a coordinated military action that had cyber as a lead force, instead of sending in airplanes. We need to figure out a way not only see the attack coming but to block it, and in blocking it chase it home." "I think this is a very poor time to send a signal that the United States is not interested in focusing on warfighting in the cyber domain," Wynne said. Wynne was fired by Defense Secretary Robert Gates earlier this year after the Air Force's mishandling of nuclear weapons. Wynne, however, said he was fired over differences with Gates on the need for additional F-22 fighter jets, among other matters. In a memo distributed throughout the Air Force this week, service officials announced that manning and budget transfers for Air Force Cyberspace Command have been suspended, delaying the command's official Oct. 1 start. The Pentagon and the Air Force are expected to make a decision as to the command's fate later this month. The command is temporarily based at Barksdale Air Force Base, La., and will eventually have a headquarters staff of about 500 people, and 8,000 personnel total. The Air Force considers cyberspace a "domain" for which the service should train and equip forces to defend, as it does airspace. There are about 3 million attempted penetrations of Defense Department networks every day, according to the Air Force. A senior military commander said, however, that the mission to defend U.S. military networks is better vested in U.S. Strategic Command, which has the military responsibility for cyberspace across all services and commands. Russia's use of computer tools to blind Georgia may not be the first time it has flexed its cyber powers for geopolitical purposes. In the spring of 2007, Estonian government, financial and media Web sites were incapacitated by a massive denial of service attack for which many in that country blamed Russia. The attack, involving a million computers in 75 countries, coincided with controversy over Estonia's plans to relocate a Soviet-era war memorial. According to an August "for official use only" intelligence report by the Homeland Security Department, there are no effective means to prevent a similar attack on U.S. Web sites connected to the Internet. Charles
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Aug 14, 2008 17:12:12 GMT -7
Charles, 1. True this conflict is no threat to the US, just our word we would help Georgia. And we should. Jim Why should we? What is our interest to be protected over there? Kai
|
|
|
Post by jimpres on Aug 14, 2008 20:40:34 GMT -7
Kai,
We gave our word. If we don't help then we should stop saying we are behind you. Sure thousand miles behind you. Kai, lets go to a rough bar and i'll back you if trouble starts. You say ok lets go. You get in trouble. I say none of my business Pa PA
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Aug 14, 2008 23:28:52 GMT -7
Jim,
Aha... we gave our word. Right now it seems out word is not worth much in the world anyhow. That sounds worse than the situation Eisenhower found himself in in 1956 with Hungary. He was no wimp, I presume, and no stranger to war. Sometimes we should admit to saying dumb things and back out. What the hell we are doing in that region is another question. This strikes me as another dumb Bush item, and we already let him ruin this country with one unnecessary war.
Should we follow him into another? Maybe we should take his cowardly body and drop him in by parachute, fully armed and let him lay his life on the line, like he avoided so well in Vietnam. It is his word we are to defend with our blood in a war we cannot win.
Kai
PS. SO I have to ask: what are our interests in the region, and what are we willing to do to better OUR interests? Our army is exhausted, our good will long departed, and we should have some well defined markers with which to measure our actions.
|
|
nathanael
Cosmopolitan
: “Die Wahrheit macht frei und ist das Fundament der Einheit (John Paul II)
Posts: 636
|
Post by nathanael on Aug 15, 2008 3:38:16 GMT -7
On Thursday, Poland's President Donald Tusk has signed the missile defense shield agreement. Today, only hours later, the Russian Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian general staff is already threatening Poland, saying that the deal to put a missile defense battery in Poland "cannot go unpunished." My question is: Where this will end? Poland should have the right not to live in fear! For how long will now the children of Poland be terrorized by the "new, democratic Russia"? I would like President Bush to answer this threat on world forum!
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Aug 15, 2008 6:39:57 GMT -7
Another flub? Bush vowed Navy aid to Georgia too soon By Jonathan S. Landay | McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON — President Bush Wednesday promised that U.S. naval forces would deliver humanitarian aid to war-torn Georgia before his administration had received approval from Turkey, which controls naval access to the Black Sea, or the Pentagon had planned a seaborne operation, U.S. officials said Thursday.
As of late Thursday, Ankara, a NATO ally, hadn't cleared any U.S. naval vessels to steam to Georgia through the Bosporus and the Dardanelles, the narrow straits that connect the Mediterranean and the Black Seas, the officials said. Under the 1936 Montreaux Convention, countries must notify Turkey before sending warships through the straits.
Pentagon officials told McClatchy that they were increasingly dubious that any U.S. Navy vessels would join the aid operation, in large part because the U.S.-based hospital ships likely to go, the USNS Comfort and the USNS Mercy, would take weeks to arrive.
"The president was writing checks to the Georgians without knowing what he had in the bank," said a senior administration official.
"The president got out in front of the planning when he talked publicly about using naval forces," said a second senior administration official. "At that point we need to look at treaty obligations, our bilateral relations with the Turks and others, waterway restrictions and what kind of ships might be appropriate and usable — something like the Comfort or something already in the Med (Mediterranean)."
The U.S. officials requested anonymity because they weren't authorized to speak publicly, because the issue is diplomatically sensitive or because the administration takes a dim view of officials who reveal its internal deliberations.
The White House and the Turkish Embassy didn't immediately return telephone calls.
Bush's pledge to send aid-carrying naval ships prompted Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili to proclaim that U.S. warships would break what he claimed — inaccurately — was a Russian naval blockade of Georgia's Black Sea coast, and that U.S. forces would take control of his country's ports.
While Saakashvili either exaggerated or misunderstood Bush's announcement, a U.S. failure to fulfill the president's pledge could prompt other former Soviet republics and Soviet bloc nations to question whether they can count on U.S. support if Russia targets them.
"We think about Turkey when we realize we need them for something," said Mark Parris of The Brookings Institution, who served as U.S. ambassador to Turkey between 1997 and 2000. "This could very well be a case of that."
Bush on Wednesday said he was launching a "vigorous and ongoing" humanitarian mission in which U.S. military aircraft and ships would bring aid to beleaguered Georgia.
The first U.S. C-17 cargo plane arrived in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, with tents and other supplies later that day.
U.S. officials said the Turks hadn't cleared U.S. naval vessels to transit the Bosporus and the Dardanelles.
"The Turks haven't been helpful," said a State Department official. "They are being sluggish and unresponsive."
The Russian invasion of Georgia has almost certainly unnerved Turkey because it has huge energy and trade interests in adjacent Central Asia.
Turkey also may be reluctant to jeopardize the $24 billion in annual trade it does with Russia, which provides around 70 percent of its natural gas supplies. The Turkish Navy also shares the Black Sea with Russia's powerful Black Sea Fleet, which in part has prompted Ankara in recent years to restrict U.S. and NATO naval operations and exercises there.
The current situation echoes the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, when the Bush administration tried to send thousands of U.S. troops into northern Iraq through Turkey — a Muslim nation where most people opposed the war — without first obtaining Ankara's permission.
The Turkish parliament refused to allow the United States to use its territory.
|
|
|
Post by jimpres on Aug 15, 2008 8:53:48 GMT -7
Nathanal,
I just heard on the news that Russia said about the shield in Poland that there would be military repercussions.
|
|
|
Post by jimpres on Aug 15, 2008 8:55:36 GMT -7
Kai,
We have no interests there, i.e. Georgia. So when Russia invades Poland because of the Shield we should not help there either since we have no interests there. Ah the almighty dollar is all it is about. Not
|
|