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Post by archivist on Dec 4, 2008 14:54:52 GMT -7
THE REAL GREAT ESCAPE
I'm sure that most people think the movie of this name was a superb piece of entertainment with a great cast and a true story line (in the main) but it was full of Americans! Sorry to my Amercan friends but that was to sell the movie in the USA and not a single American took part in the real thing. Although I acknowledge some Americans assisted in the organisation. One of the men who did take part was a Pole from 304 Squadron. He was one of the 50 executed on Hitler's personal order - and this is his story:
MONDSCHEIN F/O Jerzy Tomasc P0913
He was an observer, born on 18th March 1909. He was murdered as a POW. Returning from a raid on Manheim, On 8th November 1941, the aircraft was out of fuel and the pilot attempted to land his plane on an airfield in Belgium. He landed at St Trond near Liege, which was a Luftwaffe fighter base. The crew all survived and were made Prisoners of War, but not before destroying all papers that might be useful to the Germans and setting the aircraft on fire. Various sources mention that F/O Jerzy Tomasc Mondschein, aged 35, was one of 50 Officers executed on 29th March 1944 after an escape from Stalag Luft III (The Great Escape). Prisoner of War No P0913 F/O Jerzy Tomasc Mondschein, born 18 March 1909, recaptured in the Reichenburg area and murdered at Brux 29 March 1944 by an unknown Gestapo killer; he was cremated at Brux. His ashes were later buried in the Old Garrison Cemetery at Poznan, Poland. It is a sad irony that he was incarcerated in Stalag Luft III in Sagan (now Zagan) which is in Upper Silesia, Poland.
The killers are unknown but the executions of Mondschein and three others (F/Lt Lester J Bull DFC of 109 squadron RAF, F/Lt Reginald V Kierath and Squadron Leader John EA Williams DFC, both of 450 squadron RAAF) were orchestrated by local Reichenburg Gestapo leader Bernhard Baatz, Robert Weissman and Robert Weyland. Baatz and Weyland lived on with impunity and with the complicity of the Russian authorities. Weissman was later arrested by the French military authorities but his fate remains unknown.
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Post by archivist on Dec 5, 2008 13:50:06 GMT -7
HE ONLY FLEW 50 MISSIONS
After a difficult escape from Poland and a huge amount of training on all sorts of air war, this man flew 50 missions with 304 Squadron, facing Ju 88's (like a bear being hunted by experts) and flak (anti-aircraft fire with shotgun type shells where the fist size pellets were explosive and tore through the body of the aircraft.) At this point, I should mention that the fuselage of a Wellington bomber was made of an aluminium frame (aluminum to you Americans who can't spell!) covered by linen - yes linen - which was hardened by a coating of dope (similar to varnish). He only managed 50 missions - which was 20 more than any man was expected to endure.
PAKULA F/Sgt Kazimierz
He was born in 1920 and arrived in Plymouth in June 1940, aged 20. He underwent a nomadic training regime within Britain before joining 304 Squadron; initially he was dispatched to St Andrews, Fife, which appears to have been a major gathering point for Poles. He then went to RAF West Kirby near Liverpool and then RAF Blackpool (Squires Gate) for training. He learnt English and became an interpreter with 306 Squadron at RAF Turnhill (Shropshire) and then on to RAF Padgate. After six months he transferred to St Andrews (RAF Leuchars?) and then, for training on Tiger Moths, to RAF Hucknall (Nottinghamshire). After this he went to the Navigation School at Eastbourne, the observer training at RAF Jurby (Isle of Man) and then on to RAF Silloth (Cumbria). Finally, he joined 304 Squadron and flew 50 missions with them before being posted out to North Berwick in East Lothian, for Officer training.
Do you Poles never know when to give up?
Neville
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Post by karl on Dec 5, 2008 14:21:55 GMT -7
Neville Perhaps thinking as history is your interest. Perhaps may be you would interested into your adversary from of here across the channel. The cockpit {American term}of airweapons that your country was to face. Of some, were to be of our advanced weapons of: Me-262/Me264 Arado. www.world-war-2-planes.com/cockpit-photos-of-world-war-two-aircraft.htmlBut, your people won the War, and so may be it. {Incidentally} it was your people that of our North Germany and my then location of {Dänemark} as your occupational post war, that I was to of learnt my English. For your people took not just our country, they took control our schools. Not to say other, but we were very well treated. We were not impoverished by not, for we had plenty of to eat. It was just our fear of becoming murdered. For as a little fellow, my self and my auntie were not Dänisch as supposed, but German nationals. If perchance were to becaught, we were to be imprisoned and shot. For this we were told. But, who cares, this was of many years behind as non-sense now. Karl |
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Post by archivist on Dec 5, 2008 14:38:32 GMT -7
Karl,
Yes, I am aware of these fantastic aeroplanes which, from the German point of view, arrived too late. I am very interested in the German night fighter squadrons too. From them I have learned many of the things I have posted here.
One other thing - I'm glad they didn't shoot you!
I lost family during the war (before I was born) and you probably did too. But the fact that we are talking hopefully means that it will never happen again.
Kind regards
Neville
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Post by karl on Dec 6, 2008 15:06:07 GMT -7
Karl, Yes, I am aware of these fantastic aeroplanes which, from the German point of view, arrived too late. I am very interested in the German night fighter squadrons too. From them I have learned many of the things I have posted here. One other thing - I'm glad they didn't shoot you! I lost family during the war (before I was born) and you probably did too. But the fact that we are talking hopefully means that it will never happen again. Kind regards Neville Neville You are a person of integrity and truth. For you hide not, I like you.. I realize this of nothing of add to the Polish. But only of addition for how ever. Are you aware of the war in as much as to effect to us with your music? In year of 1944/1945, I was a fellow of years 5. This was my 1st year into school. With our military of protection to us. As children, we were forbidden of our beach areas for play and explore. This for the occasion of wash up of minen and dead. So as forbidden,we obeyed. My cousins were of 2. of similar of age, was of 10 and the elder was of 14, both ladies beyond my year. We had of our house, a radio with accumulator. We then were able to hear of your military broadcast of very nice music and that of swing... I am not sure you are aware of this. But that music was so enjoyable to us! My both cousin ladies loved to dance to swing, and yes, I was the fellow they enjoy to torture. And so, I learnt of to dance swing with them, it was very degrading to say of least... Eldrith {eldest as 14 of years} once kissed my mouth, and you have little idea of the amount of rubbing with nasty taste of soap, to remove that off my mouth... On occasion, some of our solders would listion as of us to your broadcast as wonderful with the delightful sound of music. I was not learnt of English at that time, so what was said, I understood as not. But, it was fun.. On a very rare occasion, we would hear of Englander aircraft fly low over the water onto our land. The sound was a high pitch whine as they flew so quickly by. I am not sure at present, but think perhaps they were the Spitfire fighter aircraft. For they were as what we were able to sight, very beautiful. For our aircraft were ugly and emitted a sharp heavy whine as they flew over. Just some remembrance of non-sense, I will recover in good time... Karl |
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Post by archivist on Dec 6, 2008 15:54:28 GMT -7
Karl,
I was not born then but older friends and family say that they could tell when German bombers were overhead because of the heavy droning sound of their engines. One of these people was in the RAF during the war, so his opinion is reliable. We are too far north for many fighters to reach us, but the occasional one did. During the war, there was a very large steel works just about 6 kilometres from here. Your bombers tried very hard to take it out but it was in a valley and any bomber who got close enough to hit it would have crashed into the hillside. They had no success but they scared hell out of the local people! I wish I could find one of the Luftwaffe pilots who made the attempt because I am sure he would laugh at the thought that the inept politicians in this country (in 1980) did what he couldn't do in the war!
Speaking of music, my father was an infantry soldier from 1940 to 1947 and ended his war in Germany as a military policeman. I think I have already mentioned that he had great respect for the Wermacht because he often said that he would rather fight with them than against them. A rare compliment from a man whom, I'm sorry to say, hated Germans. However, after the war, his party piece was to sing Lilli Marlene in German! I hasten to add that I don't share his hatred.
Finally, I repeat that I'm glad those nasty Brits didn't shoot you or I'd have no one to talk to!
Sixty odd years on, I think we can now be friends. Also on my one visit to Germany (Hamburg) I met some lovely people and I loved your country. If I ever get to Cuxhaven, I will look you up and if you ever get to Durham, you will be most welcome here.
Kind Regards
Neville
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Post by archivist on Dec 6, 2008 15:59:03 GMT -7
Karl,
A second thought: if your aircraft were ugly that didn't matter much because they were some of the best engineered and most effective things on wings. My Uncle Jack (RAF Engineer) feared them when flying in his Lancaster.
Neville
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Post by archivist on Dec 6, 2008 16:39:42 GMT -7
WOLNIK F/Lt Jozef
He was born on 4th March 1912 at Maszkienice, Brzesko and joined the air cadets in 1932. He progressed to training as an observer on light bombers by 1934. On the outbreak of war, he left Poland and came to England via Romania and France. Initially he flew with 309 Squadron in Lysanders in an army co-operation unit in Perth, Scotland. In September 1941 he trained as a navigator in 18 OTU and was posted to 304 Squadron in April 1942 where he flew in Wellingtons. After completing a tour of 30 operational missions he transferred to 6 OTU as an instructor. He was killed in a training accident on 23rd September 1943, when the wing fell off his Wellington and it crashed and exploded near the canal at Skipton, Yorkshire. During his career he was awarded the Silver Cross of the Order of Virtute Militari. He is buried in Leyton Road Cemetery, Blackpool, Lancashire
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franek80
Cosmopolitan
From Sea To Shining Sea
Posts: 875
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Post by franek80 on Dec 7, 2008 5:55:53 GMT -7
Karl, I was not born then but older friends and family say that they could tell when German bombers were overhead because of the heavy droning sound of their engines. One of these people was in the RAF during the war, so his opinion is reliable. We are too far north for many fighters to reach us, but the occasional one did. During the war, there was a very large steel works just about 6 kilometres from here. Your bombers tried very hard to take it out but it was in a valley and any bomber who got close enough to hit it would have crashed into the hillside. They had no success but they scared hell out of the local people! I wish I could find .one of the Luftwaffe pilots who made the attempt because I am sure he would laugh at the thought that the inept politicians in this country (in 1980) did what he couldn't do in the war! Neville, I read you post, and it brings back memories..The older I get, the more I think back in time..I am your fathers age. I too was an infantryman in the 99th division. I was twice wounded and captured. Yes I too respected the fighting abilities of the Wermacht. They were good. I am not too sure of the Slavs that were conscripted into the Wermacht.. They were always eager to surrender. They had no desire to die for Germany. What outfit was your father in? RDYwenur is doing fine. I hear from her a lot. She is one of a kind.. A fun person. Knowing Chris, I will bet that she will return in time. If only to get on my case. LOL! I am an old geezer and do not spend as much time on the computer as before.. But I do visit from time to time. AHHH! Lily Marlene, how well I remember. Marlena dietrich sang that for us at Liege Belgium, in 1944.. Geeze, where have all of those years going to. Yes, I have seen a lot of good people disappear from this forum. Basia, Nancy,Lily, dee,Babcia of four boys,Eric, Leslie, garden Momma, and others. Oh well, you lose one then you gain one. Speaking of music, my father was an infantry soldier from 1940 to 1947 and ended his war in Germany as a military policeman. I think I have already mentioned that he had great respect for the Wermacht because he often said that he would rather fight with them than against them. A rare compliment from a man whom, I'm sorry to say, hated Germans. However, after the war, his party piece was to sing Lilli Marlene in German! I hasten to add that I don't share his hatred. Finally, I repeat that I'm glad those nasty Brits didn't shoot you or I'd have no one to talk to! Sixty odd years on, I think we can now be friends. Also on my one visit to Germany (Hamburg) I met some lovely people and I loved your country. If I ever get to Cuxhaven, I will look you up and if you ever get to Durham, you will be most welcome here. Kind Regards Neville |
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Post by karl on Dec 7, 2008 9:54:12 GMT -7
Karl, A second thought: if your aircraft were ugly that didn't matter much because they were some of the best engineered and most effective things on wings. My Uncle Jack (RAF Engineer) feared them when flying in his Lancaster. Neville Neville It is most interesting with of our post exchange, for you are very well informed and excellent skill of organization and writing. It is very informing to read of our post. But, need be that I must provide some correction upon the part of my self for as not to miss-lead by accident. For at present, I do not live in Cuxhaven. That is my home, but at present, I am completing my four years in NothAmerica. It will be not until on/or after Juli 2009 for my re-assignment {It is civil service}. It is my sincere hope to receive as of my last assignment in home service {even personnel[extremely very boring]}. I would wish though at present, of some comments of your Wellington aircraft bomber. It is the technique of engineering that is remarkable with the use of aluminium lattice design as an engineering solution. For with this, the structural loading would be well distributed for cargo disparity {bomb/fuel/equipment ammunition/weapons}. www.diggerhistory.info/pages-air-support/ww2-allied/wellington.htmAs also of remarkable, is the production difficulties that must have been solved with solutions of war time necessity, and as you suggest, a very tough airframe for battle damage survivability. I wish also to comment of your father. I am very sorry for his war time experience in that war. A solders life then would have not been so pleasant. The best though, is he survived, I am happy to say. Think not badly if he is to hate us so. For his personal experience must have exposed him to some very unpleasant sights and experiences he most likely will not wish to discuss. For it was a terrible war, and some of our worst, were fighting on our home front. I am very sorry to say of my memories of being very little of the war. I was very young then, in school living with relatives in a foreign country that was first of our occupation, then of your military. Many things of that time, I have no or little knowledge of reasons for my mother {now of age 83} wishes not to discuss. We owned a family business in Bremen since of 1910. This was bombed by your airforce and rebuilt for the war-production. But, I know not so much of that. But enough of my self. Your engineering country is so remarkable in many aspects. For today of present, and of long past war time. For an example. Your use of non-strategical use of wood and engineering knowledge of adhesives. Interlayered shaved wood leaves, or plyboard, is very light weight and strong, especially as used for aircraft construction. Properly formed and joined, it is very durable and strong. For as exampled by the de Havilland Mosquito, is a prime example of this applied knowledge of technique. www.aviation-history.com/dehavilland/mosquito.htmlwww.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/why_not_wood.htmlFor aircraft quality plyboard is a extremely cost saving in aircraft construction. For as opposite of processing in manufacture of aluminium parts {skins/ribs/longeron} it has not the requirement of heat treating/freezstorage until process of stretch forming and then trimming and/or milling process to finished part. This particular aircraft design was a very extraordinary air weapon. For it was very fast, very powerful with double engines of excellent design and deadly fighter. If one is to observe the total design. It is very noticeable of not just the air-worthy airframe design that is pleasing to the eye. But, the weapons are centrally located in the axis centre of the fuselage. As so,forces generated by the firing of the weapons will not provoke the balance of the machine, but merely slow as a brake to the airspeed. One other comment so as not to be judged as a bore. The Halifax 1V Bomber. I understand this was a secret development of use of steam and coal. As of our country, petrol was in short supple in as much to England. So as an engineering solution, coal was utilized as a substitute. www.airmuseum.ca/mag/exag0103.htmlKarl |
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Post by archivist on Dec 7, 2008 13:32:50 GMT -7
Franek,
My father was a refugee from Guernsey; one of a group of islands in the English Channel (off the coast of France) and they were the only bit of Britain to be occupied during the war. He spent a lot of time in infantry regiments, transferring whenever he could to the regiment he thought most likely to liberate these islands. He was also in the Royal Artillery for quite a long time. After the end of the war he spent a couple of years in the Military Police before being demobilised and returning to England. He died in 1996 but would have been 86 now. Emphysema did what the war couldn't. His energy was sapped and he could barely breathe for the latter part of his life.
Regards
Neville
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Post by archivist on Dec 7, 2008 13:38:23 GMT -7
Karl,
You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of how things work. Are you an engineer? The Mosquito was fast, powerful, well armed and hard to detect on radar because of its wooden construction. The bombers didn't have any of these advantages, nor did it have the glamour but its crews had guts. I'm sure the same applied in your air force. You just have to salute the courage of those men on all sides.
Regards
Neville
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franek80
Cosmopolitan
From Sea To Shining Sea
Posts: 875
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Post by franek80 on Dec 7, 2008 15:14:40 GMT -7
Neville;
I never realized that you were a Brit. If you are interested in WW2 war stories, log in to WW2talk. It is mainly a British show, but very informative.I am just about the only American vet in there. If you go into search, I go under the name of franek, and I have some good personal combat stories in there.
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Post by archivist on Dec 7, 2008 16:08:51 GMT -7
Franek,
Yes, I'm a Brit from the far North East of England. This is an area of coal mining, steel works and shipbuilding. Well it was until 1980 when the last of those industries were shut down by the government. Cheap Japanese ships, cheap Indian steel and cheap Polish (yes, Polish) coal wiped them all out. It was, and still is, a major recruiting ground for the military; many of the body bags shipped back from Afghanistan and Iraq today are returned to this part of the country.
I never had a real interest in the war until I started researching the crash of a Polish bomber near my home village. Then I learned just how much we owed the Poles and how badly we treated them at the end of the war. So I am trying to write a tribute to the men of 304 Squadron as a representative sample of the Polish forces - much of my work has been published on this forum. But I will look into the forum you have mentioned, although I don't think I'll ever leave this one as I have been made so welcome here. I feel like an honorary Pole!
Kind regards
Neville
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Post by archivist on Dec 11, 2008 7:57:48 GMT -7
WOZNIAL Sgt Boleslaw
He survived the crash of W5627 on a bombing mission to Cologne on 28th April 1942; he evaded capture and returned to England. He made it to Paris by an unknown route where he was picked up by the Pat Line organization and sheltered at the home of Louis Nouveau, an exceptionally brave Frenchman, in Marseille. He then crossed France to the Pyrenees and was escorted by Ponzan Vidal, another brave (Basque?) man, into Spain in early June of the same year. He later transferred to 138 Special Duties Squadron and his Liberator was flying on Operation Cottage 7 when it came down in Sweden on 9th October 1943 and the crew were interned.
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