eunice
Freshman Pole
Posts: 17
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Post by eunice on May 2, 2009 5:18:40 GMT -7
In Nairobi we met and we both work here as foreigner. I am a Chinese. I just could not stop loving him. But my friends told me Polish man do not marry foreigner and does't matter how they like you. This is just what Leszek told me. he likes me very much but could not give what i want. I am heartbroken... I already started to learn Polish and getting to know more about the country. maybe i need some advise to stop or maitain my love for Leszek.
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Post by Jaga on May 2, 2009 7:32:12 GMT -7
Hi Eunice,
I hope you would have a better luck with Polish men. It is not true that Polish men do not marry foreign women. Poland changed a lot since communism. I am not sure what to tell you but if Leszek justifies the fact that he cannot marry you because Poles do not marry foreigners he is just a liar.
Learning Polish is a good thing and can change a mind of your boyfriend to the certain extend
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eunice
Freshman Pole
Posts: 17
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Post by eunice on May 2, 2009 8:01:23 GMT -7
Thanks Jaga. Leszek is the first polish man i know and i am the first Chinese girl he knows. On the contrary He sometimes gave sharp negative comments on China about human rights issues,even he has never not been to my country. thus i did some research on poland's history. he may inherit that great national passion for freedom... but i have to say his love for music&sports attacts me so much, as from Chinese men is so rare...
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Post by redneck on May 2, 2009 12:21:13 GMT -7
Eunice, You broke my heart with your situation. I can't tell you why Leszek feels the way he does. Perhaps he was just looking for a way let you go without hurting you in a personal way. It could even be that he has no interest in marriage.(Many modern men have no desire to marry) What I do know is this- You are a caring, intelligent, and thoughtful person. You will find someone on this earth who will treasure you for that! Keep looking and don't be discouraged.
-Tim
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eunice
Freshman Pole
Posts: 17
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Post by eunice on May 2, 2009 13:54:22 GMT -7
ennn yes, Tim you gave me the best advice i can have, thanks. i am not lost in total since i know there must be some reason for that. this is why i come to here want to dig out some thing... i thought a polish man may treasure family bond as much as our Chinese. I work overseas for years and the first time fell in love with a foreigner. and i realized that it doesn't matter how you are "international" , the place you come and belong always determine what you want. yes I want a long term relationship and he wants a friend. coming from different culture may interpret the friend in different way. In our culture friend is friend and boyfriend is another thing. He made me feel he is my boyfriend now i find in his mind that is just a friend. what a polish man cherish most? By the way Leszek is a international Polish man. i do love his taste for muisic and gentleness. Is this typical of most polish man?
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Post by karl on May 2, 2009 17:49:40 GMT -7
Eunice
Only for of a comment, for you have received some highly excellent advice from some very well sourced people. I am not Polish, nor so worldly knowledge of Chinese people and culture.
Of men and women, nature has given to them/us certain traits that are inherent within us. For nature desires all things in balance and becomes very unhappy if a species has not the opportunity to propagate. But, of 1st, the two people must meet/gain the trust of one to the other then to form the bond that holds them together of love. The love for the husband, the love for the wife. For then the off spring will be assured to the great extent, that all will be well.
The man of his nature, is a hunter. For if not of his domain, then of his living, then for his mate. The instinct of the man is not mono, for nature has instilled in man, for the protection of the species, he never stops hunting. It is then to the man of once his mate is assured with his family begin. It is then to the man to control his innate desire of hunting, for his must satisfy him self with the woman of his choice as his wife.
The woman, is a hunter/gatherer, she also is instilled by nature as an insurer of the species. In this manner, nature has instilled into the woman, certain features of survival. For has within her self, a manner of perception of a man admiring her for her body. She enjoys this attention, and will weigh it for validity and if it suits her purpose. If the admiring male is not to her liking, she will discourage his attentions, until she meets a man that suits her purpose.
What the man is not aware of: The woman has in her self, the ability to detect a man looking at her in admiration, even though she has her back turned in a different direction. She feels this and understands the moment.
The matters of the heart, are deceptive and mixed. For it is highly intense charged with a multitude mixture of emotional energy and confusion of fantasy mixed with reality. For one moment, the person {both sexes} realizes both dread and lust.
It is in this time, that as you are much aware of, is a very dangerous time of emotions. For much must be weighed. For people do not just marry the person of their dreams. It is a marriage with involvement of two separate families. In most manners, the marriage is of two families. And a life time to live with this. For if there be a gape of culture mixed with religious difference. This may be very volatile as time progresses and very possibly weaken the most strong attachment 2 people may have. For of racial differences, this is of a mixture that may become explosive in time.
A very old saying that is North German. {Not all that glitters is gold}{Es ist nicht alles Gold was glänzt}.
But of course, matters of the heart are very fickle. For in the end, you will know your heart, and you will know your instinct. For the instinct of a woman, is very seldom faulted.
For as a man born the year of dragon, the heart of the dragon is most easily understood in manners of life.
Karl
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eunice
Freshman Pole
Posts: 17
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Post by eunice on May 3, 2009 4:26:09 GMT -7
Danke Karl!
The Dragon man i wonder...amazingly helping and warm-hearted!
From all your well expressed and expressive comments...from all that i can gather up from my expriences and feelings i know i should say: lassen sie das sein!(let it be!)
when a woman loves a man who has a adventurer's spirit, artist's taste and kid's curiosity, she dooms to suffer a lot and if still strong enough to maintain the love then she should really has a big heart...
This morning i stil listen to Leszek's music show on radio as he was invited to be a guest presenting class music and polish pianists. Though we have not seen each other for a while as he insisted i should calm down...
I have not been enjoying such strange happiness for a long time...a very delightful and inspiring music journey with his good presentation. And those beautiful things i realized no time to share with him when we were togher.
Those tensions, guessing games between us disappeared. This is the most beautiful thing i can feel since i knew him.
Out of the respect to his will, i still can send a message to say congratulations for the music program. But i know my first love with a foreigner will not leave me bitterness anymore.
In this strange city, full of easy cheap lovers and so called unattached romantics, i am still happy to keep my appetite for old fashioned commitment. But in a revised way, hopefully and more wisely.
Since the acquaintance with Leszek i also fell in love with his country, secretly though...will plan to go and visit Poland soon. Maybe this is a way could help me out of bad situation like this.
This is one of those reasons when a single journey strats, i wonder...
Thanks for hearing...everyone.
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Post by iloveapolishgirl on May 3, 2009 19:23:42 GMT -7
eunice, I certainly can't tell you want Polish men want as I certainly don't know. For that matter, I don't know what polish women want or believe in general .. I only know what one in particular wants and desires, and she's my fiancee. I don't believe, however, that for *any* culture that there is any one single answer to such questions, as people differ, have different goals and likes and so on. It's a shame that this man does not wish a deeper relationship with you. Perhaps he does feel he should marry within his culture... that's not unusual for many people of many differing cultures. But, as has been pointed out already, there certainly is no such 'universal' Polish feeling.. at least for many Poles and their descendants here in the USA. And, it's obviously not a concern for my fiancee either, as I have no Polish ancestry But, I have known many Italian, Indian, Chinese, etc. descendants here who felt strong family pressure to marry within "their culture", which I personally always felt was a rather anti-American view of things But, in a way, I suspect that kind of feeling may be even more prevalent here in the "great mixing pot" of cultures then elsewhere precisely due to that "mixing" of cultures here. Or maybe it is greater felt in general for those who have moved outside of their own home country? Certainly, though, for some people (at least those who haven't resettled outside their own culture), marrying an 'exotic' foreigner sometimes seems almost perhaps a status thing. I must admit, to a small extent, for me, the fact that my fiancee is Polish is a bit of an added bonus as I get so many comments from people with wide-eyed questions and all But, I feel sad for people who feel they must marry within any narrow cosmetic restriction. They may well miss out on that truly perfect match and instead settle for something that just seems 'appropriate' or 'comfortable'. I had a 'comfortable' marriage to an 'appropriate' woman for 10 years. I don't ever want one again! I'm going for the perfect loving union this time! And I do truly believe I have found it! But, keep your head and hopes high Eunice! There is another man who will have those qualities you find so attractive and who will love you back as well without restriction or care of any cultural difference. You will find him if you keep your eyes open and your heart ready. You have plenty of time ... live and enjoy your life on your own for now and sooner or later you will find that perfect match. dvc
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eunice
Freshman Pole
Posts: 17
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Post by eunice on May 4, 2009 4:05:04 GMT -7
happy for dvc...your happiness is like a full blossomed flower, l can smell... and thanks a lot for sharing...
i did find some difficulties to communicate with Leszek, but some of my friends just say: because he is Gemini and you are Aries...so...
as Karl said those things are so tricky...
even i am defeated this time i still find my honour for hoping and still love Poland. Wiara jest swialem po spajacych gwidzdach. Faith can be seen as the light left from a falling star.
eunice
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Post by mylovedave on May 4, 2009 8:48:29 GMT -7
Eunice, I'm a Polish girl and I can tell you that it is the fact that in Poland most marriages are these within the one culture ,however that doesnt mean that there are no couples that are brought in different cultures.It happens more often now than before and it couldnt be otherwise while more and more people travel for work or tourism or studies.Its natural and its impossible to generalise. I'm sorry you got disappointed with that particular guy.It means, maybe he just wasnt for you really.Each person is an individual and you cant force anybody to love and i'm sure its not the question of culture difference.Believe me,no culture difference will ever keep someone from being with one he/she loves and I mean here both, men and women. I'm in love with an American guy,David (iloveapolishgirl):-) and I want to marry him and be his wife because he is the one and the culture difference ,no matter how big it is ,wont change it. I stongly believe you will find this one guy for you too! Wish you all the best! renata
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Post by karl on May 4, 2009 11:03:49 GMT -7
Eunice A moment of ask of consideration of an apology from my self to you on this situation of your heart... For my reply to you was very much academic, sorry... Now, I must speak from the heart of that of risk of damage. Yes, I have experienced some very unfortunate situations of the heart, in with ladies of a different culture and race then of my self. Of this experience, I am not bitter in not a manner, for each Lady tought to me, a lesson in living I was not previously aware of..And that is for sure.. For as a man, I with certainly am not a play boy, but to the opposite, rather very reserved. Yes, I have been married of 2 occasions prior. Now to an American. My 1st marriage was to a Swiss lady. Very blond, tall and lovely. We were very enthused as young people, and my 2 children {now grown} are of that marriage. But,,,,her family and my self were not so very well to be friends, and this for sure. I do hate Swiss mannerisms and their darn music of the mountains. And of them, I think they resented me as aggressive and North German for we were not of agreement of very much. We parted with much reservation, for I was always away with my work and not of able to discuss with her of. My 2nd wife was black Irish, she was part Portuguese and mix of Irish. Very beautiful with lovely complexion of dark and very dark hair. She was of a very bad temperament and we parted of 2 months. For of the reason of personal situation of conflict of my work, I was posted to South Africa to our office in Pretoria. It was very strange and confusing with a feeling of lost in my person. My work was of processing visa applications and renewal of pass for German Nationals. It was pleasant work, and removed from my mind of my personal problems. Of the many nationals that I was to work with, some were ladies as secretaries. These ladies were African/Indian and some were Chinese. I would suspect some of these ladies knew by instinct, that I was of new divorce and wished to be in on the kill. What I experienced was of some surprise of situation I was not prepared to deal with. And that was aggressive approach, yes, for this frightened my self to a very large degree, I must say! For as a fellow of recent divorce, transplanted into a strange land, in a work of un-accustomed of, to be confronted by ladies aggressive in approach, and with out an introduction through an elder...was very scary to say of least... One of the ladies of aggressive was Chinese { I say this not for that you are Chinese, but as it was to occur} for she was to approach my desk and ask of my self {are you available for your lunch period?},,I was struck with indecision and yet of admiration, for she was very quite lovely. And I was to agree with a meeting. Our meeting was very eventful, for she was a very sweet Lady, and I must admit, I was very much taken by her smell. her eyes, her talk, her nearness to me. But, I as of the darn North that I am, was to speak in honest to her. That of recent of divorce, I was not able to respond to her in proper. {in truth, I would have rather shoot my self in the foot for to say of this, but it was truth}. The point I wish to say of this, is perhaps the time is not correct for the moment of reciprocity of your intended... Karl
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eunice
Freshman Pole
Posts: 17
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Post by eunice on May 4, 2009 14:42:14 GMT -7
best wishes for dvc and renata...
and karl, thanks for your own convincing story with bloody truth...since i am just doubting myself too aggressive that for Leszek who got divorced with a daughter staying with his ex-wife, whom he loves so much. And he came to Kenya only half a year ago, being with a very busy and demanding post...i may scared him by my passion and emotional expression...
He came to me first with charming talking and so intended attentions that i could not ignore...then i got that feeling i am in love with him, even not long after we met i decided to accept his daughter and whatever i don't know about him.
but when i was getting hot he started ceasing calls and finally told me he could not give what i want. He did not talk and became so quiet just holding my love confession silently which confused me a lot...since he is kind of person so charming that many friends like to be with him, i don't want to be too sticky and respect his own privacy. but his no response did hurt me so much...
Women always want to talk when such thing happens but i doubt that men prefer to wait and see...
It is very hard for me now trying to get out...being left alone to find the answer. convincing myself hardly that Leszek is actually not into me...
as a foreigner working overseas most of us don't give our heart that easily also do not give up easlily. i am not blaming Leszek who is still the most gentle and stylish man i have ever met.
To avoid messing things too much I dare not to call him since i could not resist getting close to him.
I am busy with my own work in a university, these days tried to go for safaris a lot not thinking of him.
i know there must be a day that i can free from this pain and loneliness. this is not about culture and country we came, i know.
here on walking safari in the bush we try very hard to track leopards but most of the time they show themself only you are lucky enough or they just keep themself to be so silent in their own place. no matter how hard you beat the bush, you can't see them and leave finally disappointly.
now Leszek is just like the leopard. i can only say, i will respect his world and wish. returning to my own peace. i am so happy to know that dvc and renata they made decision to be together...such beautiful and strong bond between two beloved.
as for dear Karl, hope you take time to know that lovely Chinese lady more and l wonder you say, the aggressive way, since we Chinese lady are always too shy to express ourself. maybe just like me myself, only when we feel really so full as to explode, that does shockingly strong sometimes...
by the way i was working Pretoria 3 years ago. not far from Amecican Embassy. nearby there is a beautiful German church... those jacaranda trees...
Mit der wahren Liebe ist's wie mit den Geistererscheinungen: alle Welt spricht dar¨¹ber, aber wenige haben etwas davon gesehen. (With true love it's like seeing ghosts: everyone talks about it, but few have ever seen it)
danke karl...we will keep hoping and praying though...
eunice
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Post by karl on May 4, 2009 19:26:46 GMT -7
eunice Thank you for your very nice post reply, your German is very excellent! It is very valid, for you have visited Pretoria. For yes of the Jacaranda trees. For there are a vast many of them in and about the city. They are a spring tree of flowering. It is most wonderful in the early morning whilst with the window open for the morning breeze, it will bring the scent into the room. There is a saying of Africa {You will never leave Africa, for a part of you will always stay, and a part of Africa will always be with you}, I know this to be true.. eunice, I think perhaps I have of accident of misleading to you. I am married for some time. My wife is an American. On the surface, a very valuable asset to my work here, but in reality, the time soon will arrive with my time to expire here, and I must return to my home for re-assignment. We are allowed a term of 4 years for each assignment, or to the option of my Government. For I am civil service and have been so for over 30 years. The Chinese lady I was speaking of. She was a very lovely person and enthusiastic. She was not only lovely with her appearance, but, more so, she was very lovely in her heart and so thoughtful. It broke my heart to not begin to see her, but I just was unable to bear my own past for I did so hurt in-side of my self, it was too much then. eunice, with your Leszek, would it be proper to say, perhaps to give him some time to become accustomed to you? If perhaps, you are able to approach him quietly for just to talk? It is so easy for a fellow to hurt so badly inside and provide no indication of the pain. It is of my sincere hope and trust that all will be well between you both, for you are a person of truth and deserve the best in life. Below is where I worked, the office was located on the Embassy Crescent. It was very beautiful with the various grounds and restful to the senses to simply walk and let the mind unwind. www.pretoria.diplo.de/Vertretung/pretoria/en/02/Oeffnungszeiten/Oeffnungszeiten.htmlI live in a rented flat on the edge of the city where many of us resided. Our windows were with out- side wooden slates that were adjustable for the direct sunshine {for cooling}. Your work with the University in Nairobi, you are a professor? Or in the Science lab? Karl
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Post by tuftabis on May 5, 2009 1:12:46 GMT -7
my friends told me Polish man do not marry foreigner and does't matter how they like you. This is just what Leszek told me. Hi Eunice, I'm a Polish married man living in Poland. I think your friends and Leszek told you the truth. Polish men very rarely marry foreign women. More often Polish women marry foreign men. I have found a sociologic study demontrating that of the culturally mixed marriages including a citizen of Poland, in 98 percent there's a Polish wife. However, in Polish culture it is nothing wrong to marry a non-Pole, and there's a significant number of such couples. Poles of both genders are very fond of marriage out of love and they respect and rejoice every marriage out of love, no matter what cultural difference may exist. I cordially wish you all the best.
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eunice
Freshman Pole
Posts: 17
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Post by eunice on May 5, 2009 9:46:23 GMT -7
ooooooo Polish man...bloody truth makes me breathless...that study means my chance is very slim...but the good thing is that is the TRUTH.
the friend who told me that polish man does not marry foreigner has been lived in poland for a long time. he warned me before i fell into Leszek completely...
so waht happend between me and leszek is just like i knew the dark predict but tried to overturn it secretly. Leszek is always polite to my all kind of invitations: family tea time with my big boss; seeing my best friends and visiting my university. all of these showed me a kind of certainty that he would like to know me more...and all these things for a chinese girl like me, means formal introduction as my boyfriend.
but i can feel most of the time, he was trying to withhold those lovely words a girl in love mostly want to hear: Kocham cie (i love you)
However after many struggling days and so many helping i got from here, i cleared my mind and tried my best to make a calm phone call to Leszek today.
it was very hard...and i had to listend to my favourit jazz for a while then got my phone.
i could not afford to make any mistake to lose him, even just as a friend as he wished. what i know is, it is very rare in your life to meet with a beautiful person who has almost everything you admire and treasure. but if i am not lucky to have this special one and i should feel still happy to be one of the friends. now my problem is, i just can not clear the thought that i may still have the chance... My funny situation...a big smile with smoke in eyes... the only obvious benefit is: my love for jazz, polish language and poland is getting bigger... i respect Leszek so much. his love for poland, his pride for her history and music, the Tatra moutains he always go for ski... i really happy to know those beautiful things and places.
for all who warmly responsed me here:
Milosc to cud, ktory zawsze moze sie znow zdarzyc Love is a wonder wich can happen again. for karl, i am a senior lecturer in charge of a language&cultural project. myabe this is why my sitiation leads me to search for more deep and more seriously...possible culture issues may weaved into...our love story.
Danky & Alles Gute...
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