Back in Idaho

[pieter]

Leslie,

It is nice to hear that you are going to Krakow too in september.
Even when it is only for two days it is enough to snif the atmosphere
of that lovely old Polish Gothic and Habsburg city.

Are you going to give a lecture there?

Pieter

[Bob S]

;D Welcome back from your jaunt Jaga. BTW the potatos are still growing in Idaho. ;D

[Jaga]

bescheid said:

{thank you so much. I always enjoy any thoughts exchange with you and I missed you

are you travelling to Europe this year?}

Jaga

You are so much a dear heart, thank you. I was thinking also. You were flying with the sun, and as such, the new/old time is confusing to the body. We as people, are after all these millions of years, still in tune with the sun.

Europe is on hold for this year {I think}, depending upon circumstances, I have hopes of to Bremen/Ostfriesland in this Dez. or Jan. Just not so sure at this time.

Untill this time, I must be content with the radio{internet}. Oh to share with you, a lovely internet station of Köln {Cologne}. Depending of course of the annoncer {Rundfunkstationdirektor}, on week days, popular music, and week enden, classic music of the masters. It will be found as of: WDR 4 Live stream on your address bar.

Charles

Hello Charles,

travelling between America and Europe is very tiring especially for us who live outside the main connection roads. It would be much easier to live in NYC or Chicago and travel to Poland

I unedrstand! Just stay with us in the forum because it keeps your closer to Europe and your part of the world

[Jaga]

Bob, Pieter, GM,

thanks. I will reply to your posts in more detail later on

[leslie]

Pieter
No, this time for a change my visit is just to 'chill out' for a couple of days - at least that is the intention up to now!!!
Leslie

[pieter]

Leslie,

It is good to hear that, Krakow is a great place to relax for a couple of days.

Pieter

[Jaga]

+++I wonder what the influence of Radio Mariya and it's television station is in Poland,
because I had to hear and watch it daily, since my guest host listened and watched it
daily.+++

some Poles listen ONLY to radio Maryja, watch ONLY tv trwam (the same owner) and read ONLY Nasz Dziennik.

It is strange, because the other people read and watch different sources of the information but the fans of Radio Maryja just concentrate on one type of information, just like people who watch FoxNews and do not watch anything else for a comparison and for better spectra of news.

[piwo]

admin said:

just like people who watch FoxNews and do not watch anything else for a comparison and for better spectra of news.

Just like those who watch only network news or CNN, and only get one perspective

[pieter]

admin said:

+++I wonder what the influence of Radio Mariya and it's television station is in Poland,
because I had to hear and watch it daily, since my guest host listened and watched it
daily.+++

some Poles listen ONLY to radio Maryja, watch ONLY tv trwam (the same owner) and read ONLY Nasz Dziennik.

It is strange, because the other people read and watch different sources of the information but the fans of Radio Maryja just concentrate on one type of information, just like people who watch FoxNews and do not watch anything else for a comparison and for better spectra of news.

Jaga,

I agree with you, the strange thing is that my guest host is an educated woman,
who had also Gazeta Wyborcza lying on her table (a newspaper that criticizes
radio Maryja and tv trwam). I was very polite as guest and avoided political debate
or discussion on West-east issues, because I wanted to concentrate on Warsaw, (see the images I sent to you)Poland and the information that I got from her from my families and her families past, which interested me a great deal. Outside in the city I concentrated on visual issues and on English, German or even French information that I could get.
For me it was for instance important to see the political advertisements on billboards
on the street, and on other Polish chanals, that on some political issues they interviewed
all major parties indesciminately. I got an objective view via images.
Because I watched the other Polish chanals, and sometimes the German, French, British or American (CNN/Sky) chanals I could get. I watched the French TV5 in the morning, and for the news I switched to CNN, BBC or the German ARD/ZDF.
It is easy for a foreigner to stay in Poland and keep the News of Western chanals. In good stores you can buy newsweek and the Economist too. Many shops only have Polish newspapers and magazines though.
I personally think that it is not good to listen to radio Maryja and watch tv trwam only, because then you get an isolationalist, slightly narrow minded view of Poland and the world, and think that it would be healthy to watch some commercial and Polish state chanal too.

Mu guest host did not forbade me to watch other chanals and occasionaly watched the news of the Polish news station (Polish kind of CNN). But she made it clear to me that she did not trust the Commerical and state chanals, because the Commerical chanals
are in foreign (Western) hands and in the State tv former Communists (read SLD)
stil had their influence.
She is a very religious woman and the Catholic faith dominates her life, next to Patriotic
feelings (supporting the PiS government, knowing Polish history, being fiercly anti-communist, and disliking Western Liberalism because of abortion, Euthenesia, decadence, same sex marriages and gay parades).
The SLD was for her stil "The Communists"!
Besides this she is a very educated and elegant women who studied economy, lives
in diplomatic circles (her man is a diplomat), has could connections with the Polish state department (ofcourse), travels between Poland and Africa (where her man works and ofcourse she lives there most of the time) via Brussels, Vienna (where her brother lives) and Geneva, where her oldest daughter lives (who is married with a German man). She knows Northern-Africa (Maghreb), Middle Afrcia, and West Africa very well, and so also the embassadors and their wives of many countries.
She goes back to Warsaw because her youngest daughter, sister, family and friends live there, and to help her husbant in Africa, by taking care of their house in Warsaw
and getting (typical Polish) things you can't get in Africa.
She is in a Catholic group in Warsaw, knows many priests, monks and nuns in Poland and in Africa, and so is rooted very deeply in Polish Catholicism and the Roman-Catholic faith in general (she and her husbant know french, American and African missionairies too). I got the impression that Poland is an important missionairy country.

Pieter

[Jaga]

piwo said:

admin said:

just like people who watch FoxNews and do not watch anything else for a comparison and for better spectra of news.

Just like those who watch only network news or CNN, and only get one perspective

Piwo,

no. The truth is that people who watch CNN also watch MSNBC, ABC etc and many people who watch FOX - do watch it for all information as like this was the best source for everything. THere are statistics about it. People who watch CNN are more random, people who watch FoxNews are very devoted to just this station.

The same with radio Maryja - people who listen to radio MARyja do not listen to anything else. Weird? Is it not?

[pieter]

admin said:

piwo said:

Just like those who watch only network news or CNN, and only get one perspective

Piwo,

no. The truth is that people who watch CNN also watch MSNBC, ABC etc and many people who watch FOX - do watch it for all information as like this was the best source for everything. THere are statistics about it. People who watch CNN are more random, people who watch FoxNews are very devoted to just this station.

The same with radio Maryja - people who listen to radio MARyja do not listen to anything else. Weird? Is it not?

Jaga,

My mothers friend listenes to radio Maryja, and watches Trwam tv,
but also watched the Polish 24 hours (commercial) news chanal and the
Polish state tv. I've got the impression that some Poles are occupied by
a double fear, first for the "Old Communist agenda", secondly for a
Western invasion (this time in the Form of a Capitalist take over, and
Germany occupying Poland again in an economical way - many German
families and companies buy Polish real estate and property).
I really tasted resentment against the Western influence, which "threatens
the Polish national interest, which is keeping Poland Polish and traditional
Catholic".
The strong sentiment is based on the will of a National Unity,
keeping Poland Polish by rejecting foreign infuences, and sticking
to a strict form of Catholic tradtions, customs and absolute faith.
And you know what, I can understand that very well, because the heritage
of partititions, German and Russian occupation, himuliation by Czarism,
Nazism and Sovjet communism sits deep.
I saw or witnessed a strong determination to built a new Poland,
to create a Poland based on Polish values, keeping it's heritage by
restoring it, and in the same time making a big progress.
The Westernization (Economical growth, Western products, Western
buildings, Western popular culture, Western stile media, and so
also the Western hedonism and decadence from Western-Europe and
America) goes fast in the same time.
And for some old fashionate Poles that process goes to fast, and some
see an evil connection between the former Communists who
enriched themselves via corruption and the new decadence of
the Western culture. Some believe that prostitution grew under
the former SLD/PSL government, and that it was even promoted
by the SLD and it's media, because the first sex advertisements
appeared in the left newspapers.
The supporters of the PiS, LPR and Samoobrona also state that
under the SLD there was less Police on the street and that the
crime figures rose. Now they say we have a New York stile
Zero tolerance policy and a Moral conservative government
who fights corruption, crime and Western decadence (no Gay
parades, closing of Gay bars in Warsaw and etc.).
I have to state however that I did not saw any signs of Xenophobia,
racism or hostilities against foreigners in Warsaw, because Poles
are guestfree, polite and disciplined people.
In Warsaw I saw groups of American, Israeli, Spanish, Italian,
Japanese, German and Dutch tourists.
I don't know what to believe, because I don't speak Polish,
but I just express here what I heared from Poles in Poland
and abroad, who spoke English with me.
And I only met with Conservative Catholic Nationalists and
with Liberal-conservative capitalists.
It seemed to me that the PiS and LPR element dominated,
with some PSL and SLD counterveiling powers, probably from
the neigbourhoods with former Communist functionairies and
their offspring, and the workers neigbourhoods.
A few days was not enough for me to get a ballanced,
unbiased picture. And I am biased, because I do believe
Poland is (a little bit) a reactionairy Catholic, Nationalist,
and Isolationalist country.
From my experiance you can see how dangerous it is to
believe someone's experiance and story, because I tell
you that I got information form one side, but if I would not
have told you so, maybe some of you would have believed
that I told you the objective truth.
The truth is that in Poland I got the rightwing, Pro-government
view, and that only on the street I could form my own
opinion. The opposition seemed silent to me.
Only the radicals were present with their posters and
graffiti. I only hope that Poland is a solid, stabile and
balanced parlaimentairy democracy.

Last thing I want to say is that Poland is a democracy and if the
Poles want a Conservative and Populist government that is their
good right.

Pieter

[pieter]

Strange to me was that when I was in Warsaw Poland seemed not so one sided
Pro-American as it is portrayed in the Western press, especially the Dutch media.
The Polish news I saw seemed more Pro-Arab than Pro-Israel, and I saw only
the Lebanese side of the conflict (where in the Dutch news I was able to see both
sides). I don't know if this has to do with the strong ties of Poland with the Arab
countries in the recent past, or that it has to do with anti-Israeli and anti-jewish
sentiment? In Warsaw Judaism was invisible for me.
I avoided talking about jews or Israel, because my guest host surely did'nt like
them. I don't know if that sentiment came from her parents or from her
experiance with Israeli's, because there are nearly no jews in Poland.
My personal view about Poland in this issue is that there are anti-semites,
philosemites and neutral people in Poland, like you have them in my own
country, America, France and Russia. Poland is not an anti-semetic country.
During my stay a Polish city invited a group of Israeli children from Norhtern
Israel to relax and escape the war, and in the same time invited a group of Lebanese children to escape the war too. These two groups would meet eachother.

In Poland I saw that there is opposition against the Defense shield the Americans want to
install in Poland and the Czech republic. Many Poles don't want that, because they don't
feel threatened. Also many Poles did not want to take part in the American-British war
and occupation in Iraq. They say that the former Communist president Alexander Kwasnievski had his own political agenda behind his support for Bush war.
Kwasnievski they say wanted good connections with the Americans to show that he was a good Western allie, but especially because he hoped that later, after his presidency he would get an international post. Now it seems that everybody has forgotten him, in America, Poland and in Europe.
Don't forget also the enormous resentment against the West, because of the
betrayal of the first allie (Poland) by it's Western allies in Yalta (where Roosevelt
and Churchill did not defend Polish interests, and delivered Poland to the
Sovjet influence zone). Some present anti-Western sentiments are rooted
in this cause. It means; "Poland don't trust anyone, only trust yourself".

Pieter