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Post by pieter on Mar 17, 2012 13:39:12 GMT -7
We are talking about John Demjanjuk today and other historical topics concerning the Second World war. But in my opinion in Syria today simular things happen like in the Second world war. Right at this moment children are being killed, slaughtered and heavily wounded.
I don't want to choose sides, because I don't know the facts on the grounds. I know that the Assad Baath regime isn't exactly democratic, nor very kind towards opposition forces and demonstrations for freedom.
I don't know who is exactly the opposition, how large and strong the Free Syrian Army is, the power of the Syrian National Council, Syrian wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Damascus Declaration's exile wing, the Assyrian Democratic Organization, Kurdish dissidents, and the Local Coordination Committees, a group involved in advertising and coordinating demonstrations?
But I do know that I have seen very disturbing images of massacres, torture and humiliation of people, because of their religious, cultural and ethnic affiliation, massive destructions of towns, city centres, neighbourhoods and villages.
On youtube I saw in a closed section (you have to describe to to see disturbing images) a video of a house (appartment in a building) in which entire families were killed, slaughtered by militia. I saw a group of dead mutilated women and a dead girl with a terrifying expression on her face, lying in a corner of the room. The expression on the grey, white face of the girl was one of sheer horror. It shows her terrible last moments. In other video's I saw images of heavily wounded little girls (four, five or seven years old). One with a shrapned wound in her left buttock. It was terrible to see her pain and to hear her shouting of dispair. A few meters away from her lays another girl with a gunshot wound in her left forhead near her temple.
The situation in Syria isn't normal, when a government is attacking it's own population with tanks, artillery, snipers, and with the help of Pro-regime Allawite armed gangs or militia, fanatical Iranian revolutionairy guards, secret services and Lebanese Hezbollah militiamen. From the other side I fear that Sunni Muslim extremists also take advantage of the situation to spread chaos and to stimulate ethnic, religious and cultural divides between the several religious and ethnic communities. The continuous attacks by the army and militia on civilians and demonstrators create not only bloodshed, chaos, and destruction, but also hunger and thurst, a demoralised and traumatised population. People will be mental tormented and mental illnesses will occur like the Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS), depression, schizophrenia, psychosis and other anxiety disorders. Many people will be disabled for the rest of their lives and dependent on others, not able to work due to their physical and mental handicaps they got during this "civil war".
I think that in a sensable joynt efford the United Nations, the Arab Leage, the European Union, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, the Russian Federation (which also became critical towards the Syrian Baath regime), the USA, France, Great Britain, Germany, Poland and also China should take action.
They should demand an end to the violence from the regime and the opposition forces, and they should bring up a national dialogue, which is monitored, guided and accompanied by foreign mediators.
The shelling, shooting (sniper fire), bomb explosions, clubbing, herassing and killing of children, mothers, fathers, old people, boys and men should stop. The policy of rounding up all men and boys from Sunni neighbourhoods that supported the opposition should stop, because if all these boys and men are tortured, killed and mutilated, then there will be a divided and torn country. It looks to me like the SS in Warsaw who rounded up healthy men and boys to execute them, only leaving the old men, children and women behind.
If this continues the hatred, anger, disgust, rage, desire for revenge and lust for war and punishing the Allawite and Christian communities that support the Assad Baath regime will grow. I said above here what I know from Youtube movies, Al Jazeera, Al Arabya, BBC, CNN, Fox news and Haaretz reports. If the Syrian situation does not improve there will be a large scale civil war which will spead accros the border to Lebanon and probably to Jordan and Iraq too.
The world must help the Syrian people to negociate with the regime they are fighting and demonstrating against. The regime must recognise the dissatisfaction of the majority of the population with the administration and the opposition and the demonstrators and rebel forces must realize that they must go to the negociation table to discuss national reconcillation, power sharing, real reforms and power sharing between the several ethnic, political and religious groups in the country. The time that the Allawite minority controls the Sunni majority by force is over.The opposition of the Sunni Syrian opposition is to big to be ignored, because they are supported by the majority of the Muslims all over the world, because 90% of the Muslims in the world is Sunni Muslim and only 10% Shia muslim. The Syrian allawites are a branch of Shia Islam. That's why they are supported by Iran and Hezbollah, eventhough the Baath regime is secular.
Cheers,
Pieter
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Post by pieter on Mar 17, 2012 14:19:48 GMT -7
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Post by karl on Mar 17, 2012 15:34:49 GMT -7
Pieter How well do I agree with you in this situation of currant Syria. For indeed so, it is extremely deplorable in the manner of innocent people being brutalized and murdered for no seemingly reason. What is actual, is an inprogress revolution. A revolt for reason of removal of the Assad government through the process of civil war. Whilst as similar, is a ongoing tug of war between The UN/Chinese and Russian Federation. It is apparent, for at least of the moment, The Americans apparently are keeping clear with use of Kuwait as a proxi in association with The Arab League. What is positive at apparent moment, is the work through the Syrian National Council {Istanbul Turkey-European side of Turkey}. For this entirety situation, as you have pointed out very rightly so, is absolutely out of control and people are dieing for no good reason. It is quite true of the Assad Government, Currant Bashar al Assad needs be not to follow in foot steps of his father in heavy handed uprising resolution. In this stead, to use negotiations as the rally point for to buy time. Then with use of 3rd party for as neutral to remove the blame off his shoulders. www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/syrian-national-council-act-now-to-prevent-massacreIt will be some miracle if through this, a new government is formed as a: Modern, civil, democratic state Karl |
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Post by pieter on Mar 17, 2012 15:54:55 GMT -7
  Leaked emails reveal Gulf dignitary attempted to mediate a safe exit for Assad familyFriday, 16 March 2012 The daughter of a Gulf ruler reportedly offered asylum for Syria’s first lady, her husband and children if the Syrian president agreed to step down. (Photo Illustration by Amarjit Sidhu)The daughter of a prominent Gulf Arab personality told Syria’s First Lady, Asmaa al-Assad, to leave the unrest-torn country with her husband, President Bashar al-Assad, and their children before it was too late, emails leaked from Asmaa’s inbox and obtained by Al Arabiya revealed. In August last year the person, who has been reported to be the daughter of a Gulf royal ruler, began a series of emails with the wife of the Syrian president which developed from casual messages to a serious discussion about the crisis and ways to find solutions to it. Correspondence shows that the person first sent an email to Asmaa to wish her a happy Ramadan. Asmaa responded back with thanks and similar wishes. The subject of communication remained personal until Aug. 4 when an email from the lady asked Asmaa about the situation in the Syrian city of Hama and whether the president had a plan to exist from the crisis. In response, Asmaa denied media reports that the Syrian army had interred Hama but admitted that the city was rife with violence. “ Contrary to media reports, the army did not enter Hama (yet), though the place is rife with violence,” she wrote. Regarding her husband’s crisis management plan, Asmaa stressed that reforms were underway with new laws being issued and young people being trained in debate. “ We are training young people to debate and have worked to get facilitators to help train the trainers, things there are going well, I attended a heated discussion yesterday in Lattakia ... which was excellent! Of course debate and dialogue is not the language that attracts the media these days, so little is mentioned, but the impact on the ground is significant.” On Aug. 5, the alleged Gulf princess asked whether new legislations would suffice to calm the situation in Syria and change the political scene there. “ How does one control the calamity? How does training young people in negotiations, at this stage, help? How do you foresee the next coming months. I hope you and kids are safe,” she wrote. Asmaa responded to the series of questions 13 days later. On Aug. 18, she wrote saying, “ the new legislation allows for political parties to be formed - so no more single party rule and a completely new political context!” She added that people want change in a “ secure and stable environment.” Asmaa received a forthright email from her friend, contained with a mixture of calls and warnings. “ I know the President is a noble man with good intentions, but in the end anything goes wrong, and he’s to blame.” She wrote that after new legislations are issues, the president should address the nation and step down. “ The lives lost cannot be retrieved, but there’s still a chance to keep a positive image, because i truly believe the President has credibility." “ I’m thinking of your kids, the risks they are in and their future ─ please leave it too late ─ sometimes in life, we don’t calculate the outcome, but when we are faced with situations beyond the control of one or two ─ then we ought to accept fate.” In her response, Asmaa was succinct, writing: “ I really appreciate your concern ... There's perception and there’s reality ... I guess it depends which one you associate with... ” On Aug. 29, the lady sent an email with the subject “ Eidich umbarak,” which denotes a clear Gulf Arabic greeting for Eid greetings, the holiday to celebrate the end the month of Ramadan. But the body of that email had little to do with its subject. It contained a clear appeal for the president and his wife to leave Syria. “ I wish you would leave and get the kids out. I am so worried about them. The situation is out of control ─ please get the kids out before it’s too late...” In her following response emails, Asmaa refrained from discussing the situation in Syria and kept her emails purely to personal issues, like kids going to school, going on a trip to the north of country. In another email, the Gulf woman, which now appeared to be from Qatar, asked Asmaa if she could pass on her email address to the wife of Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayeb Erdogan as she asked for it. Asmaa wrote back saying she did not want Erdogan’s wife to have her email “ after the insults they have directed towards the president.” A few months later, the discussion about Syria between the two resumed and on Wednesday Dec. 14, the alleged Qatari princess asked Asmaa directly: “ How can I help you? I can’t imagine you agree with what is going on ─ you’ve done such great work, it can’t all be lost on the basis of weeks of bad policy? Honestly ─ how can we be of help?” Asmaa forwarded the email from to her husband and added “ For a laugh”. On Jan. 30, 2012, an email sent to Asmaa offered asylum to the Syrian first lady, her husband and children if they stepped down. “ I know at times I am too blunt ─ but it’s because I care and consider you and the family as part of our own. Every day I think about the thoughts running through your head and the safety of your children ─ I only pray that you will convince the president to take this as an opportunity to exit without having to face charges. The region needs to stabilize, but not more than you need peace of mind." “ I am sure you have many places to turn to, including Doha,” she wrote. (This is the second in a series of articles on the leaked emails of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his inner circle. ) |
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Post by pieter on Mar 18, 2012 4:59:23 GMT -7
Pieter How well do I agree with you in this situation of currant Syria. For indeed so, it is extremely deplorable in the manner of innocent people being brutalized and murdered for no seemingly reason. What is actual, is an inprogress revolution. A revolt for reason of removal of the Assad government through the process of civil war. Whilst as similar, is a ongoing tug of war between The UN/Chinese and Russian Federation. It is apparent, for at least of the moment, The Americans apparently are keeping clear with use of Kuwait as a proxi in association with The Arab League. What is positive at apparent moment, is the work through the Syrian National Council {Istanbul Turkey-European side of Turkey}. For this entirety situation, as you have pointed out very rightly so, is absolutely out of control and people are dieing for no good reason. It is quite true of the Assad Government, Currant Bashar al Assad needs be not to follow in foot steps of his father in heavy handed uprising resolution. In this stead, to use negotiations as the rally point for to buy time. Then with use of 3rd party for as neutral to remove the blame off his shoulders. www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/syrian-national-council-act-now-to-prevent-massacreIt will be some miracle if through this, a new government is formed as a: Modern, civil, democratic state Karl Well said Karl, diplomacy and foreign pressure on both sides of the Syrian internal conflict should be continued. Most important is the humanitarian aid to the Syrian civilians and the guarenteed safety of both the Sunni majority which is under attack now and also the Allawite, Christian, Druze, Turkish, Turkmen, Circassian and other minority groups who probably suffer from counter attacks of the armed Sunni Muslim resistance, because the Shiite Allawites and the Christians are seen as the supporters of the Assad regime. (Seen from the christian perspective that is not strange, because the christians fear the Syrian branch of the Muslim brotherhood and a majority regime of the Sunni's). Simply the most important thing now is that the international community should take responsibility and should use all the mulitlateral and bilateral means in and outside Syria to prevent the " potential massacre of tens of thousands of children, women and elderly people". The Arab Leage, the European Union, the United Nations and the USA have diplomatic means, the powertool of economical sanctions, direct political means and militairy options. It is very clear that most foreign powers don't want a militairy intervention in Syria, because that might create an extremely dangerous situation with Iran and Hezbollah nearby, and the Sunni militairy powers of Turkey and Egypt. Israel is very silent and neutral right now. It seems to take no sides and not take part in the conflict. But if the situation goes out of control and the conflict crosses the Golan Heights border with Israel, Israel can not stay neutral. The danger of a large scale Middle-eastern war with many frontlines isn't fictional. Good news is that Turkey plans to create a bufferzone in Syria to create a safe haven for Syrian refugees who escaped from their villages, towns and cities. Cheers, Pieter |
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Post by pieter on Mar 18, 2012 18:03:52 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Mar 19, 2012 2:40:13 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Mar 21, 2012 5:59:34 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Apr 2, 2012 13:35:23 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Apr 14, 2012 5:51:03 GMT -7
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Post by pieter on Apr 14, 2012 9:07:15 GMT -7
German reaction to the 2011–2012 Syrian uprisingOn 24 March, German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said: " The violence must end immediately. The Syrian government must make sure that basic human and civil rights, as well as the rule of law, is observed," In early August, after the bloody siege of Hama, the chairman of the German government's committee on foreign relations declared that there should be a global boycott of Syrian gas and oil exports with the aim to pressure Syria into ending its violence against protesters. Meanwhile, on the same day (the 8th of August), a German government spokesman declared that if Assad continues to reject dialogue and resort to violence, the Syrian government will lose its legitimacy. On 15 August, a German Foreign Ministry spokesman said Berlin wanted stronger sanctions against Syria after hearing reports that Syrian gunboats strafed coastal neighborhoods in Latakia.  German Foreign Minister Guido WesterwelleOn 18 August, in a joint statement with the leaders of France and the United Kingdom, Chancellor Angela Merkel called on Assad to leave power immediately and condemned " this bloody repression of peaceful and courageous demonstrators and the massive violations of human rights which President Assad and his authorities have been committing for months".  Chancellor Angela MerkelOn 7 February 2012 the Berlin Police arrested alleged members of the Syrian intelligence on suspicion of monitoring Syrian opposition members living in Germany. Foreign Minister Westerwelle insisted that Germany would not tolerate such activities against Syrian opposition figures. Two days later, four members of the Syrian embassy were expelled from the country on the grounds of alleged espionage as well. Power Political PerspectiveWhile the German Institute for International and Security Affairs (SWP) is publicly debating the possibility of a NATO war on Syria, the German government's former " Coordinator of German American Cooperation," Karsten D. Voigt (SPD), asserts that the current dispute between the West and Russia over the adequate policy towards Syria is not about " human rights versus dictatorship," but geostrategic interests. In a recent closed discussion of the German Council on Foreign Relations ( DGAP), Voigt called for a clearer " power political perspective" of the moral dispute.  The German government's former "Coordinator of German American Cooperation," Karsten D. VoigtWhereas Russia would prefer a " secular dictatorship," the USA - according to Voigt - is trying to bring a " Sunnite majority regime" to power. This, in fact, corresponds to Washington's and Berlin's new course focused on Islamist circles in the Arab countries and cooperation with also the Muslim Brotherhood (german-foreign-policy.com reported). This is why particularly the Islamist countries Qatar and Saudi Arabia were pushing for the recent interventions in the Arab world - in close coordination with the West, including with Germany. Links: www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/58285www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-08/german-minister-westerwelle-calls-for-united-position-on-syria.htmlarticles.cnn.com/2012-02-09/world/world_europe_syria-germany-expulsion_1_syrian-activists-syrian-opposition-syrian-ambassador?_s=PM:EUROPE
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Post by pieter on Apr 14, 2012 9:14:34 GMT -7
 The Polish reaction to the 2011–2012 Syrian uprisingIn mid-August, Poland's delegation to the United Nations drafted and circulated a proposed resolution calling for a second investigation into the uprising and crackdown focusing on events on and after 15 July 2011. The international reactions to the 2011–2012 Syrian uprisingMany Western governments have condemned Assad's response as overly heavy-handed and violent, while many Middle Eastern governments initially expressed support for Assad and the " security measures" his regime has taken, though as the death toll mounted especially in Hama they switched sides, often adopting the rhetoric of Western countries. Other countries, including (but not limited to) China and Russia have vetoed attempts at UN sanctions of the Assad government. Iran and Iraq share the opinion of Russia and China. IranIran’s supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, spoke out in favor of the Syrian government in regard to the uprising – “ In Syria, the hand of America and Israel is evident” and “ Wherever a movement is Islamic, populist and anti-American, we support it”. The Guardian reported that the Iranian government is assisting the Syrian government with riot control equipment, intelligence monitoring techniques, oil supply, and snipers. It has also been reported that Iran has sent the Syrian regime $9 billion to help it withstand the sanctions imposed upon it.  Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah-Ali-KhameneiOn 15 August, while visiting Cairo, Egypt, high-ranking Iranian parliamentarian Alaeddin Boroujerdi condemned the actions of Syrian protesters, claiming they were American agents trying to destabilise Syria in order to benefit Israel.  Iranian parliamentarian Alaeddin BoroujerdiOn the same day, a report published in the British Daily Telegraph quoted an alleged defector from the Syrian secret police as saying Iranian soldiers, including snipers, were working alongside Syrian police, paramilitary, and military units fighting to put down the uprising. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in an interview with the Lebanese television news network Al-Manar on 25 August that the violence should end and " the people and government of Syria" should join in a national dialogue. " When there is a problem between the people and their leaders, they must sit down together to reach a solution, away from violence", Ahmadinejad said.  Iranian president Mahmoud AhmadinejadHowever, Ahmadinejad told Emir Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani of Qatar on 26 August that he believed that any " interference of foreigners and domineering powers in the regional countries’ internal affairs would complicate the situation".  Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (R) meets Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani in the capital Tehran on August 25, 2011.Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi delivered the Ahmadinejad government's sharpest remarks to date on 27 August, saying the Syrian regime should respond to the people's " legitimate demands". However, Salehi also cautioned that a " power vacuum" in Syria could have " unprecedented repercussions" for the region.  Iranian foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi |
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Post by pieter on Apr 14, 2012 9:38:36 GMT -7
The Israeli reaction to the 2011–2012 Syrian uprisingOn 24 March 2011, Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor Lieberman said: " The same principles, activities the Western world [has taken] in Libya ... I hope to see those regarding the Iranian regime and the Syrian regime."  Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor LiebermanIsrael expressed concern that Assad will try to divert the attention from the uprising in Syria and try to provoke some border incidents with Israel in the Golan Heights, Lebanon or Gaza or even start a war with Israel in order to unite the Syrian people against Israel and to divert the media attention from the uprising in Syria. On 4 March 2012, Lieberman called on the international community to intervene in Syria in order to stop the killings. On January 10, 2012 Benny Gantz, the Israeli military chief of staff, informed members of the Knesset committee that in the event of the Syrian regime's collapse Israel is getting ready to permit fleeing Syrian Alawites settlement in the Golan Heights.  The Israeli military chief of staff, Benny Gantz
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Post by Jaga on Apr 14, 2012 22:04:45 GMT -7
Pieter,
referring to Iran leaders and Syria. There is a strange assymetry with presenting Iran in America. President Ahmadinejad is highly critzed and demonized but Iran’s supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, is almost never mentioned. There is a propaganda's effort to show that bad Iran is Ahmadinejad....not sure why.
Referring to Syria. We are probably closer to the end of the regime than we think, but who would replace it? Syria and Russia, as you mentioned were always very close, so it is difficult for Russia to change the course suddenly.
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Post by pieter on Apr 15, 2012 3:33:33 GMT -7
Pieter, referring to Iran leaders and Syria. There is a strange assymetry with presenting Iran in America. President Ahmadinejad is highly critzed and demonized but Iran’s supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, is almost never mentioned. There is a propaganda's effort to show that bad Iran is Ahmadinejad....not sure why. Referring to Syria. We are probably closer to the end of the regime than we think, but who would replace it? Syria and Russia, as you mentioned were always very close, so it is difficult for Russia to change the course suddenly. Jaga, If a " Sunnite majority regime" comes to power in Syria the Sunni Arab countries and the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood will cooperate with it. The West will accept the new reality for Geopolitical reasons too. Iran, Iraq, Hezbollah, Russia and China will have to find a way to deal with that new situation. It would be nice if a moderate, Lebanese like (Sunni dominated) Future Movement government would take charge of Syria, if it could gain the majority of the votes, or a moderate sort of Muslim Brotherhood, who would not turn the Sunni majority against the Allawite, Christian, Druze, Kurd and other minorities. National unity must be kept in Syria to be able to continue to exist as an independent and united nation. The minorities must be protected and respected, and in the same time the human rights and position of the majority must be respected too. Who ever comes to power must reform the Syrian political and economical system. The Syrians themselves must do it without foreign intervention or foreign (geopolitical) agenda's. Syria today is damaged. 9.000 people or more are dead. Probably thousands of wounded people on both sides. People who have been tortured and abused. Those lives are ruined. The international community must continue to put pressure on both sides to stop the bloodshed and violence. There must be some sort of peace (deal) negociations and the country must come to some sort of responsable, pragmatic and new kind or rule. The regime has lost control of the country. Wether you are pro-Ba'ath (Assad) regime or against it, you have to realize that the regime has lost its economical, political and diplomatic powerbase. The only power it has is it's military power and foreign support to maintain that military power. The Syrian branch of the Ba'ath party was the military wing of the Ba'ath party, while it's Iraqi competitor and oponent, the Iraqi Nationalist branch of the Ba'ath party was civilian. In the present situation the political and military power is mainly in Allawite hands, and the economical power in the hands of a Sunni businessclass and middle class. A lot of these Sunni businesspeople had good connections to the Ba'ath party regime, but they might change sides now they see the suffering of the Sunni people under the brutal oppression of the regime. What is unclear to me and other Westerners is if this regime has any support left in Sunni officers circles, from Sunni Ba'ath party members and Sunni religious leaders? During the 45 or 40 year Ba'ath party regime there were not only Allawite officers, generals, businesspeople and politicians who supported the regime, there were also Sunni supporters and leaders in this regime. When Hafez al-Assad, the father of the present Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, suffered from heart problems in 1983, he established a six-member committee to run the country. His brother Rifaat al-Assad was not included, and the council consisted entirely of close Sunni Muslim loyalists to Hafez, who were mostly lightweights in the military-security establishment. This caused unease in the Alawi-dominated officer corps, and several high-ranking officers began rallying around Rifaat, while others remained loyal to Hafez's instructions. Rifaat's troops, now numbering more than 55,000 with tanks, artillery, aircraft and helicopters, began asserting control over Damascus, putting up posters of him; he was clearly launching a bid to succeed his brother. Tensions between forces loyal to Hafez and those loyal to Rifaat were extreme, but by early 1984 Hafez had returned from his sick bed and assumed full control, at which point most officers rallied around him. In what at first seemed a compromise, Rifaat was made vice-president with responsibility for security affairs, but this proved a wholly nominal post. Command of the ' Defense Companies' was transferred to another officer, and Rifaat was then sent abroad on " an open-ended working visit". His closest supporters and others who had failed to prove their loyalty to Hafez were purged from the army and Baath Party in the years that followed. Links: There is an alliance between Hezbollah and part of the Lebanese christians. Like there is an alliance between Allawites and part of the Christians and the Druze in Syria. Other Lebanese Christians like the Maronite Lebanese Forces, National Liberal Party, Independence Movement, Lebanese National Bloc and the Armenian Social Democrat Hunchakian Party, Democratic Liberal Party - Ramgavar, Free Lebanese Armenian Movement, and some assyrian parties are anti-Syrian and take part in the Future Movement and the March 14 alliance (a coalition of anti-Syrian regime forces) An article of the Pro-Syrian and Pro-Hezbollah, Lebanese Christian Free Patriotic Movement. www.flf-tayyar.de/index.php?id=15&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=8214&cHash=cb5f6842a51787feb245dc8cb651a59b |
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