Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 13, 2007 13:24:22 GMT -7
In as much to the subject of the war and Holocaust and of my concern for my country. Of course this is true. For I speak as truth of my concern of my own country contrary to a foreign country. The Holocaust is history, the present is now. We live in the present, not the Holocaust. Charles We live in the present but currently we are posting in the thread called The Polish Jewish relations and we are making a lot of historical digressions here with splinter subdiscussions on Nazi Germany too. So, Charles, judging by the time you are right that it is the present, not the past. However, your judgement crushes when it comes to place. In this thread we can discuss all history. We can exchange our opinions freely. And we have the right to shock others with our opinions (you) as well as we have the right to feel shocked (Liv, Peter, me). This is a free world, free forum, there is freedom of speech and the whole box of wax.
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 13, 2007 13:28:39 GMT -7
Actually, this is one of the very few areas I even hear of the war. For some reason it seems to concentrate here. Many threads deal with war in the forum. What about Iraqi war? Or the one in Kosovo that you posted recently? However, my main war interest is in WW2 as I am history-oriented. That is why I am in this thread.
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Post by bescheid on Dec 13, 2007 14:20:27 GMT -7
In as much to the subject of the war and Holocaust and of my concern for my country. Of course this is true. For I speak as truth of my concern of my own country contrary to a foreign country. The Holocaust is history, the present is now. We live in the present, not the Holocaust. Charles We live in the present but currently we are posting in the thread called The Polish Jewish relations and we are making a lot of historical digressions here with splinter subdiscussions on Nazi Germany too. So, Charles, judging by the time you are right that it is the present, not the past. However, your judgement crushes when it comes to place. In this thread we can discuss all history. We can exchange our opinions freely. And we have the right to shock others with our opinions (you) as well as we have the right to feel shocked (Liv, Peter, me). This is a free world, free forum, there is freedom of speech and the whole box of wax. Hmmm, yes Pawian You are correct, it is free speech and I do agree with you for it is true. Free speech is freely excercised untill it becomes abusive, it then becomes a verbal weapon of hurt. The question of: who will decide what is abusive? The answer: To that beholder, is the decision as to what is abusive. Charles
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Post by bescheid on Dec 13, 2007 14:22:28 GMT -7
Actually, this is one of the very few areas I even hear of the war. For some reason it seems to concentrate here. Many threads deal with war in the forum. What about Iraqi war? Or the one in Kosovo that you posted recently? However, my main war interest is in WW2 as I am history-oriented. That is why I am in this thread. Pawian I agree with you Charles
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Post by pieter on Dec 13, 2007 17:10:18 GMT -7
Pawian/Charles,
Are we going back to the subject of this topic Polish-Jewish history and present time, or is this threat becomming a chatroom?
I will participate again when this topic returns to the historical level of discussion!
There were 3 million jews before 1939 in Poland, 10 procent of the population. What can you tell me about them, their culture, their towns, villages, and their interaction with fellow Poles Pawian? That's interesting? The florishing *jiddish culture was interesting with an active press, literature (novels) and poetry! What do you know about that, and does it stil has an influence in Poland? Translated literature? How important were Jewish artists, intellectuals, scientists, philosophers, politicians, musicians, theatre, cabaret, and etc. in prewar Poland. Was there one intelligentsia of Catholic, Jewish and secular Polish intellectuals or were there specific Polish (Jesuite, dominican, Krakow, Warsaw, Wilno, Lwov) intelligentsia and art circles and Jewish social-cultural life. Was it united or segregated? We know about the Polish interbellum, that you first had Endecja politicians in power positions, that they were replaced by the Sanacia "National unity" regime and that after 1935 the Colonels regime ruled. It were difficult times for jews, but also for other minorities. It were crisis years (after 1929, black tuesday). What do we know abou the Polish Interbellum here on the Forum and in Poland. What do Polish pupils of highschools learn and know?
Is there historical awareness, a sense of the own history in the context of a brother European framework or horizon?
Pieter
* Isaac Bashevis Singer, I. L. Peretz, David Pinski, S. Ansky, Sholem Asch and I.M. Weissenberg
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Post by livia on Dec 14, 2007 1:36:31 GMT -7
Thank you for the url for the {Zombies}. Have you the occasion to see them? I like their music. and the lead singer is very cute.. Charles Yes, I have. But don't evade NOW. Be helpful, Charles, explain your logic please. You write: The nazi bastards gave cause for destruction of my country. and: A situation remembrance {sorry Leslie} in the last year of the war, we along the North See Coast in Dänemark as a child. My self and my friends, would make our fighter aircraft with sticks and hold our air battles against the Englander Spits. If our child hood airbattles were actual, we would have won the war. Charles You have lost the war (which you seem to almost do) so it's the nazi bastards that GAVE CAUSE for destruction of your country. It's THEM who gave the cause. BUT if the war would have been won by Germany, then it is WE who won the war. Please explain your logic. I am really curious now. If you would have won the war there'd be no Livia.
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Post by pieter on Dec 14, 2007 2:03:10 GMT -7
Please explain your logic. I am really curious now. If you would have won the war there'd be no Livia. And no Jaga, Zooba, Pawian and Pieter either! Pieter
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 14, 2007 2:51:14 GMT -7
Free speech is freely excercised untill it becomes abusive, it then becomes a verbal weapon of hurt. The question of: who will decide what is abusive? The answer: To that beholder, is the decision as to what is abusive. Charles Charles, it is your fault. It isn`t even about your views - you can have any controvercial views imagined. It is about your behaviour when the discussion caused by your views develops. If you weren`t so manipulative and evasive in your answers, I wouldn`t have to use stronger words on you. When I use them, they are intended to make the evasive person wake up to the reality of the discussion. The same refers to Kaima who likes to distort everything.
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 14, 2007 6:05:28 GMT -7
Thank you for the url for the {Zombies}. Have you the occasion to see them? I like their music. and the lead singer is very cute.. Charles Yes, I have. But don't evade NOW. Be helpful, Charles, explain your logic please. You write: and: A situation remembrance {sorry Leslie} in the last year of the war, we along the North See Coast in Dänemark as a child. My self and my friends, would make our fighter aircraft with sticks and hold our air battles against the Englander Spits. If our child hood airbattles were actual, we would have won the war. Charles You have lost the war (which you seem to almost do) so it's the nazi bastards that GAVE CAUSE for destruction of your country. It's THEM who gave the cause. BUT if the war would have been won by Germany, then it is WE who won the war. Please explain your logic. I am really curious now. If you would have won the war there'd be no Livia. Wow! I can see you grasped the idea of makinhg quote boxes in your posts. I was going to explain it to you but you were faster....
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Post by bescheid on Dec 14, 2007 8:51:32 GMT -7
Free speech is freely excercised untill it becomes abusive, it then becomes a verbal weapon of hurt. The question of: who will decide what is abusive? The answer: To that beholder, is the decision as to what is abusive. Charles Charles, it is your fault. It isn`t even about your views - you can have any controvercial views imagined. It is about your behaviour when the discussion caused by your views develops. If you weren`t so manipulative and evasive in your answers, I wouldn`t have to use stronger words on you. When I use them, they are intended to make the evasive person wake up to the reality of the discussion. The same refers to Kaima who likes to distort everything. Yes Pawian It is my fault in-as-much as Kaima. We are thinking people by vertue of our selves. But not to worry. My country has not won a war in over 300 years. You are safe.. Charles
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Post by bescheid on Dec 14, 2007 9:04:36 GMT -7
Thank you for the url for the {Zombies}. Have you the occasion to see them? I like their music. and the lead singer is very cute.. Charles Yes, I have. But don't evade NOW. Be helpful, Charles, explain your logic please. You write: and: A situation remembrance {sorry Leslie} in the last year of the war, we along the North See Coast in Dänemark as a child. My self and my friends, would make our fighter aircraft with sticks and hold our air battles against the Englander Spits. If our child hood airbattles were actual, we would have won the war. Charles You have lost the war (which you seem to almost do) so it's the nazi bastards that GAVE CAUSE for destruction of your country. It's THEM who gave the cause. BUT if the war would have been won by Germany, then it is WE who won the war. Please explain your logic. I am really curious now. If you would have won the war there'd be no Livia. Livia For that reason, it is not acceptable for change of history if there were not to be you self. Or perhaps nothing would have changed and you still would be here. Or if we had never known, then we never experienced. Our present is the best Charles
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Post by pieter on Dec 14, 2007 9:47:19 GMT -7
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Post by bescheid on Dec 14, 2007 12:46:29 GMT -7
Hmm, My Dear Friend Pieter I had forgotten of you with this broad statement of my saying as an attempt for our Polish friends to dispeal of any symbalence of concern to their German West. It would so seem as of the present, I have been in vain, for only you as my Nederlander friend would know of our history, I had not thought of you. Well so be it, my words now are of a lie, and as so. Now I must make amends to my Polish friends. Our Otto von Bismarck of so long past. This man was more then simply a statesman. He was a man built of Iron, with a will that would not falter. Will, it is to my self for an apology for mis-information of deception upon my part to my Polish friends. Thank you for bringing this to light. {Was dem einen recht ist, ist dem anderen billig}[What is right for one, is fair for other] Charles
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Post by bescheid on Dec 14, 2007 12:53:56 GMT -7
Charles, it is your fault. It isn`t even about your views - you can have any controvercial views imagined. It is about your behaviour when the discussion caused by your views develops. If you weren`t so manipulative and evasive in your answers, I wouldn`t have to use stronger words on you. When I use them, they are intended to make the evasive person wake up to the reality of the discussion. The same refers to Kaima who likes to distort everything. Yes Pawian It is my fault in-as-much as Kaima. We are thinking people by vertue of our selves. But not to worry. My country has not won a war in over 300 years. You are safe.. Charles Dear Pawian Please to refer to post of Pieter # 371. For I must apologize for my discretion of deceit of over stating of our wars of 300 years in past of non-winning. I was not correct nor forth- right, for this I am very sorry. Charles
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Dec 14, 2007 13:27:34 GMT -7
Please to refer to post of Pieter # 371. For I must apologize for my discretion of deceit of over stating of our wars of 300 years in past of non-winning. I was not correct nor forth- right, for this I am very sorry. Charles Well, Charles, there can be a triple opinion on it. Germany pressed on Poland since the times of Teutonic Knights in 15 century. There were a few moments when Poland got the upper hand, but most of this time Germans triumphed. Partitions, occupations, land robberies, stolen Crown Jewels, germanization etc. That`s what some Poles prefer to remember. A few other people tend to notice the fact that eventually Poland triumphed. Germany was pushed back to it original borders and all lands that Poles and Germans once fought for belong to Poland now. East Prussia vanished altogether, partitioned between Russia, Lithuania and Poland. Such a tiny act of historical "justice." Still a few other people tend to see it in terms of the victory of good will and peace between the nations. Poland and Germany are in the EU and NATO, with the USA as our guardian angel. Poles work in Germany, Germans buy Polish products and the traditional hostilities are gradually forgotten. Guess, which group of people do I share my views with?
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