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Post by jimpres on Jan 12, 2006 18:39:01 GMT -7
Tomorrow night Friday 13 January John Stocil will have a special on TV. It's about how bad the American schools are compared to 'Poland and South Korea".
Should be interesting. Don't know the time or channel. Check your TV listings.
Jim
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Post by suzanne on Jan 12, 2006 18:54:44 GMT -7
Thanks for the heads up, Jim.
Sounds interesting, so I looked it up: it's "20/20" (ABC) Friday night at 10 PM (Eastern time, maybe earlier in your time zone)
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Post by Jaga on Jan 12, 2006 19:34:03 GMT -7
John Stossel would be talking about Polish schools? I hope that positively! Thanks for letting us know, this should be on ABC right?
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Post by jimpres on Jan 12, 2006 20:19:18 GMT -7
It should be positive because it is pointing out how bad American schools are. Of course public schools not private.
And like Suzanne so graciously looked up it's on ABC 20/20 10PM Eastern.
Jim
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Post by Jaga on Jan 13, 2006 9:27:10 GMT -7
Jim, Susanne thank you. I did not notice Susanne post first when I was looking through the latest 10 messages in the forum... I will keep the watchful eye, thanks! THere is also a couple of articles about education in Poland here: culture.polishsite.us/smeducation.html |
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Post by Jaga on Jan 13, 2006 22:23:09 GMT -7
Guys,
thanks for telling us about the program. I used to like John Stossel a lot, but when he "drills" one subject he sometimes close his mind into other arguments. There was not that much about Poland, more about Belgium, but still it was worth to watch.
He was talking way too much about teachers unions which are active maybe in NY and California but not in the rest of the country that much. Why he did not talk about how much really teachers get? Why he did not mention all teh benefits which administrators or superintendent have? THeir salaries are sometimes 10 times as big as these of the teachers. I do not believe that only the salary is a problem.
In Poland teachers earn little money but I feel - they are appreciated more. People (parents and students) treat teachers with more respect.
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Post by kaima on Jan 13, 2006 22:54:28 GMT -7
The program starts in Alaska in about 8 minutes, so I will be signing off. Yes, this advocacy jounrnalism that skips so much of a topic does not appeal to me. It reminds me of Rant Radio with the conservative talk people. My first encounter with Rush Libauch was a 15 minute rant on Hillary with spitting and sputtering and no solid statements, only solid hate. I wondered who is this a**? What is his message? Why is he on the air? So then I learned about Rant Radio.
Kai
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Post by jimpres on Jan 14, 2006 0:02:49 GMT -7
Well the program was a bust relative to Korea and Poland.
Mostly on the Union monopoly in the US schools.
I was disappointed in the lack of Polish schools when the promo said it was about them.
Jim
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Post by kaima on Jan 14, 2006 2:23:41 GMT -7
I also found it disappointing, Jim. It offered no backup, no reason the Belgian schools were better other than competition, and I cannot believe it all boils down to one simple answer - though I like that one. When I thought of vouchers I thought it was a liberal idea, but now it is conservative. I would like to see the school board and teachers shaken up!
OK enough moaning and groaning, he flashed a shot of the PISA results and never entered into those comparisons, they presented it more as their own original work. I think a lot of good could come from a good analysis of the PISA tests and various attempts at improvements world wide. It also points out that the US is #1 in money spent but quite mediocre in results - a bit the same as our medical system.
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Post by jimpres on Jan 14, 2006 17:10:06 GMT -7
Kai,
Arnold here in Caifornia tried to do some of the things needed to fix some of the problems in the schools here. He was shot down by the labor unions. He wanted to pay the good teachers more and get rid of the bad ones easier. To bad for the students.
Jim
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Post by kaima on Jan 14, 2006 18:08:36 GMT -7
Kai, Arnold here in Caifornia tried to do some of the things needed to fix some of the problems in the schools here. He was shot down by the labor unions. He wanted to pay the good teachers more and get rid of the bad ones easier. To bad for the students. Jim Cleaning up the unions can be the first and easiest step. Then we have to establish a new culture of valuing education in our entire society, resulting in the parents getting off their lazy butts, getting and staying involved, and backing up the teachers and schools when darling Johnny or Linda misbehaves. I don't think we have the national fortitude to face the music and do the whole program. We as a nation are too lazy and do not value education enough to place the necessary work into it. Instead I expect we will continue to pat ourselves on the back and assure ourselves we are the best in the world. Self delusion is far easier! Kai |
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Post by suzanne on Jan 14, 2006 19:02:22 GMT -7
Then we have to establish a new culture of valuing education in our entire society, resulting in the parents getting off their lazy butts, getting and staying involved, and backing up the teachers and schools when darling Johnny or Linda misbehaves. Kai, As I was watching the program what you said above is exactly what was going through my mind the whole time. The lack of caring on a parental and societal level is really the source of the problem, far more than underperforming schools or poor teachers. |
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hussar
Junior Pole
Każdy czuje respect przed Husarią
Posts: 78
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Post by hussar on Jan 17, 2006 20:16:08 GMT -7
If I'm not mistaken, Connecticut's Public School system has the highest paid teachers in the country. I've also heard that music teacher's can pull in a nice salary in the mid-west where there's a shortage.
My father was angry about that comment about Polish Schools. He felt it was as if Stocil was saying "We're worse than Poland for God's sake!"
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