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Post by Jaga on Jun 28, 2006 14:14:52 GMT -7
Here is a commentary by Adam Michnik (Jewish by origin) about Ella Wiesel article in WashingtonPost critizying PolandElie Wiesel Accuses Poland – Commentary by Adam Michnik "Gazeta Wyborcza", June 27, 2006"The Washington Post" on Sunday [June 25, 2006] published a review by Nobel prize winner Elie Wiesel of a new book by Jan Gross, author of "Neighbors." The new book, titled "Fear," is about the persecution of Jews in Poland in the years 1945-46. In his review, Elie Wiesel mentions his own experience from 10 years ago. As a result of his statement during the 50th anniversary of the Kielce pogrom – he says – "virulent, deplorable – essentially antisemitic – attacks appeared throughout the Polish press." Despite what Wiesel writes, his statement in 1996 – mainly a sidebar to the dispute around the display of crosses at the Birkenau camp – was criticized by many people very far removed from antisemitism, including Rev. Jozef Tischner in the pages of "Gazeta Wyborcza." What is more, Wiesel’s review paints a picture of a country which cannot face up to disease of antisemitism. Several years ago, after the publication of Gross’s book "Neighbors" about the murder of Jewish inhabitants in Jedwabne, Poland was engulfed in a great debate with the participation of the president and the Primate of the Catholic Church.
Certainly there is no other country in Central and Eastern Europe which would apply such importance and sincerity in accounting for the murkier aspects of its own history.
This debate was just as significant at the publication of Gross’s book. Several weeks ago, Rabbi Michael Schudrich was the victim of a hooligan’s attack on a Warsaw street. This was not the only incident in the world of a hooligan attacking a rabbi. However, Poland is undoubtedly the only country where, the next day, the president of the country invited the rabbi to his office and in front if the media’s cameras expressed his solidarity with the victim. Whoever writes about antisemitism in Poland and neglects to mention these events, then – even if inadvertently – he falsifies the truth about Poland. [Translation – Ted Mirecki]
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Post by Jaga on Jun 28, 2006 14:17:38 GMT -7
The truth is that even Polish president Kwasniewski went to Jedwabne to apologize.
According to the investigation the number of the bodies there was not in thousands but somewhere between 200-300.
Gross has an opinion and he just wants to argue his point rather than see the truth
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Post by Jaga on Jun 28, 2006 14:19:17 GMT -7
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Post by bescheid on Jun 29, 2006 16:32:55 GMT -7
I would only suspect, the publication of {The Washington Post} is only touching the surface of deep water with respect to Mr. Elie Wiesel. The man is an Icon of Jewish revenge upon those dark times of the war. A prolific writer of fiction and non-fiction. His loses in the camps, are similar to the losses of a multitude of people. I am not sure, but believe his family had died but all that are today, him self and two sisters.s Perhaps this is his right born of loss, and representative to all those that died in the camps. The man is a person of power, real and present political backing. It is up to him as a moral person, how to manage that power. Charles www.albionlibrary.org/albionreads2006/elie_wiesel_bio.htm
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Post by Jaga on Jun 30, 2006 7:20:31 GMT -7
Perhaps this is his right born of loss, and representative to all those that died in the camps. The man is a person of power, real and present political backing. It is up to him as a moral person, how to manage that power. Charles www.albionlibrary.org/albionreads2006/elie_wiesel_bio.htmCharles, thank you for your very thoughful opinion. I agree with you completely. Wiesel lost a lot and he has a high authority but.... he needs to use his power and influence in a wise way - otherwise he would lose his reputation. You know, the first book of Gross "Neighbours" that was very critical towards Poland was actually embraced by some Polish community. Later it was revealed that this book had plenty of exaggerations but Gross did not repeal it. It seems that Gross rather wants to spread his side of the story again and again than tell any historical truth.
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Post by bescheid on Jun 30, 2006 8:17:21 GMT -7
Jaga Thank you for your very kind reply. I agree with you in respect to Jan Gross. his.princeton.edu/info/e47/jan_gross.htmlI would tend to give him credit for trying, but in as much to accuracy, I am not sure. With his book of that, {Neigbours} I have not read it, and will not. As a general rule, I do not read books of the Holocaust. I will read the records and review through photographs. Hmmm, well one personal account I have read, that of {No Pretty pictures}written by Annita Lobel of her personal experience. Her Polish pass port number of v. 135814. Jan Gross: Most likely his motivation of publishing the book ({Neighbours} was to bring the information to the public, and of course, to make money. I have no personal offense against him for that. What I do though, is this: His {Gross} information and research is all second hand. Using depositions of various numerous people, and taking that as a basis of fact. This is very faulted form of investigation. Individual witness statements are usually based on some fact of observation of that person. And taken with out knowledge of others so as to give a better and more clear written observation with out contamination from the presence of others. The depositions of this witnesses are just only partial key to opening the gates of fact. It is just a partial roadmap to follow through with for the location of physical evidence. Many people observing a similar event, will see different things, depending upon their individual powers of observation accuracy. So as follows, eye witness accounts, are not all that accurate with out the physical evidence. Other wise in a finale report, it will be only a half truth and a half truth is very difficult to establish. With out the physical evidence, the half truth is an aberration of the truth with out an established fact. I am not saying Mr. Gross is not establishing the truth by intent, but, what I do propose is, this, as a investigator/writer he has not researched his facts well enough. It strikes my senses that he {Gross} is relying upon his professional credibility to carry his writing as assumed correct by virtue of his position. Just only my observation and thoughts Charles
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Post by sciwriter on Jun 30, 2006 12:06:17 GMT -7
Charles, agreed! Articles which show that both Jews and non-Jews died in those camps are needed. Carl
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Post by sciwriter on Jun 30, 2006 12:08:27 GMT -7
Jaga: Keep in mind that since Wiesel is a Hungarian Jew, he may be biased vs. Poland. Carl
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Post by Jaga on Jul 1, 2006 8:29:27 GMT -7
Carl,
Hungary and Hungarians were rather friendly towards Poland so I do not think this was such a big issue
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Post by Jaga on Jul 1, 2006 8:34:40 GMT -7
+++He took advantage of the occasion to demand that the Polish government remove the crosses and other religious symbols that, by chance, he had seen a few years before strewn in the ashes at Birkenau, where almost all the burned dead had been Jews. The next day, virulent, deplorable -- essentially antisemitic -- attacks appeared throughout the Polish press.+++wrong. You cannot ignore the fact that many others died in Birkenau. I was a guide in Poland, I was in Auschwitz/Birkenau several times. They had a separate gipsy camp, the Birkenau gas chambers were tested on Soviet soldiers first, actually, the majority people in the camps were probably non-Jewish. The Jews were send directly to the gas chamber (sad of course) but to demand that all the crosses would be removed ? even the pope cross??? why? Does the David star makes me so upset that I want it removed anywhere in Poland or in Israel?+++Israel Gutman spoke to me briefly about the Jedwabne pogrom, in which virtually all of that small Polish town's 1,600 Jewish residents were killed in a single day in July 1941, and a new and important book, Neighbors , by Jan T. Gross, whose revelations about Jedwabne promised to embarrass Poland and jolt the conscience of the world. A professor at Princeton now, Gross is a Polish Jew who knows his subject. Neighbors -- a book of high moral quality -- described the massacre of Jews at Jedwabne as not carried out by Germans but by native Poles+++They counted the bodies in the mass grave. There were 200-300 bodies not 1600. Yes, Poles helped with this killing, Polish president apologized really, Polish press wrote about the killing, many Polish people apologized, Wiesel did not notice it. This was done AFTER this region was taken over by Germans.
Besides Gross does not want to explain what caused a tension between Poles and Jews in the communities. Jedwabne was a part of the Poland which was invaded by Soviets. Among Jewish population there were many symphatizers with Soviet system and communism. During 1.5 years when this region was Soviet the Jewish were chosen rather than Poles to be on the top of the local government. Poles were the persecuted once while some (not all ) Jewish people took advantage of the Sovoet system.
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Post by sciwriter on Jul 1, 2006 10:43:17 GMT -7
Jaga, However, many Hungarian Jews have considered themselves culturally superior to Polish & Russian Jews. Carl
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Post by Jaga on Jul 1, 2006 11:04:46 GMT -7
Jaga, However, many Hungarian Jews have considered themselves culturally superior to Polish & Russian Jews. Carl Carl, this is a very interesting opinion. Can you find some sources/references?
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Post by bescheid on Jul 1, 2006 16:45:59 GMT -7
Jaga I think perhaps Carl is confused {and naturally so} with the Hungarian Jews. As well known, the once kingdom of Israel was split up into two kingdoms, and the kingdom of Judah was conquered entirely by the Assyrians {ancient fathers of the German tribes} and removed entirely out of the now known area of the modern land of Israel,{it is all in the Bible}. The entirety of Judah was taken also with that of the Assyrian into the area of Anatolia {Turkey} and from there, to the compasses of Europe of that now of Russian and from there to the other lands of now modern Eastern Europe. The ancient lands of the kingdom of Khazria is not that well know, for even the so called brilliant Russians are not even that aware of their own country. www.holywars.us/war/khazars.htmlwww.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/audioletters/audioletters_khazars.htmIt is interesting that of the American government to spend out so much educational monies on a loused kraut to figure this out. Charles
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Post by sciwriter on Jul 1, 2006 17:06:09 GMT -7
Charles, thanks for the information.I'm referring to the biased attitude of some Hungarian Jews toward Polish Jews which I heard personally. Carl
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Post by sciwriter on Jul 1, 2006 17:06:44 GMT -7
I viewed the DVD of Polish movie: “Border Street” (1950) about cooperation between Polish Jews and Christians in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1944. I recommend that all should see this movie. It should wake up Elie Weisel to accept this spirit of cooperation yesterday & today. Carl: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FBHCK0/qid=1151797886/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8128274-7910245?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130Product Description One of the first post-World War II films to deal with the Holocaust, BORDER STREET recreates the circumstances surrounding the doomed Warsaw Ghetto uprising, in which a small, heroic band of Jews chose to resist the Nazis rather than face deportation to Auschwitz or Treblinka. The story unfolds through the eyes of four characters who live in the same building: David and Jadzia are two Jewish youths who fight the Nazis as their only choice for survival, while gentiles Bronek and Wladek consider the occupation an insult to their Polish heritage. Aleksander Ford's heart-wrenching film focuses on the common goals of the Poles and Jews as they stage a valiant effort to rid themselves of the Nazi menace. BORDER STREET is at once a compelling drama and a page out of history.
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